Unseen Servant: Live Games

[dmw71]

I'm going to create this topic to manage recruitment and discussions about potential live games that will be taking place in the future.

This still needs to be cleared by the wife, who returns tomorrow.

This current plan involves:

• Using images and maps in Roll20 to manage exploration and encounters. (This may eventually be replaced by Fantasy Grounds Unity, which will be releasing soonish.)
• Using D&D Beyond to host the rules and character sheets. (There is a chance the built-in character sheet functions of the VTT being used may replace D&D Beyond.)

Really, I am willing to use whatever provides the most positive experience.



How Will it Work?
Here is an overview of how I see this working:

• Interested players should contact me (preferably by replying to this post, but I'll accept a PM as well) to obtain an invite to the campaign created for this ongoing game in D&D Beyond.
• I currently have only the rules in the Player's Handbook shared, but the Xanathar's Guide to Everything is also under consideration.
• Content from other sources may be requested, and will be considered on a case-by-case basis.
• Players will create a character, or two, to have ready on-hand.
• When I have the availability, and the materials prepared, I will post the date and time of the next session, along with any needed details (e.g. link to campaign in Roll20, dial-in information for online meeting, etc...).
• Any interested player that is available at the scheduled time is welcome to join.
  • Note: RSVP'ing in advance, with the name of the character you plan on using will be helpful, but not required.
• More details will be added in the future, as needed.

Game Premise
Everyone will begin with brand new characters, in a settlement of some kind. Probably a large town or small city... complete with a seedy area or two.

You'll need work.

There will be the normal bars, and inns, and other establishments where rumors can be overheard and 'want ads' can present plenty of avenues to explore. There will be guilds. This "open" idea I thought of this morning, that has me excited about the potential of this in the first place, centers around one guild in particular. Or maybe just an NPC? Or maybe just led by this NPC? It/they will present the assembled group of characters near-endless opportunities.

There will certainly be plenty of monsters to fight, but expect a fair amount of role-playing as well. The choice will be yours.

---

Edit: Additional details of plan, (originally posted here).


My plan is for the characters to almost be bounty hunters. The "one guild in particular" or "one NPC" mentioned in bold from my original post will essentially be like a taxidermist. The "one NPC" (which the characters will not immediately meet; you're low-level nothings to start, and won't automatically be interacting with the boss directly) is rich, and powerful.

And has wants.

A majority of your work, as "bounty hunters," will be in serving this NPC's needs and wants... even if you don't realize it at first, as you'll be working through the NPC's intermediaries or minions.

Early on, the tasks will be simple. Maybe the NPC's supply of a certain material spell component is running low. I'll create an adventure specifically around this. Maybe the NPC is looking for a specific gem, or jewel, or magic item. Really, there is virtually an endless number of challenges and quests I can task you with.

Then, as your characters continue to fulfull tasks for this NPC, and continue to grow in power, you'll start to earn more trust and be given opportunities to take on increasingly more difficult challenges. The NPC has an interest in taxidermy. There is a TON of potential in that idea. Maybe the NPC needs (or just wants) the:

• Feathers from an aarakocra (CR 1/4)
• A sample from a gelatinous cube (CR 2) or a black pudding (CR 4)
• Fluid's from a basilisk’s gullet (CR 3)
  
  Or...
• Scales and teeth from a young red dragon (CR 10)
  
  Or...
• A purple work swallowed something of the NPC's and they want it back (CR 15)
  
  Or...
• Maybe a pit field angered the NPC and they want you to deal with it (CR 20)

Scalability.


These quests or tasks may take a single session, or span multiple sessions, but characters are free to come and go with your (the player's) availability.


What I most look forward to is actually hand-picking monsters of the appropriate level and building scenarios around them. There are so many classic monsters that I've never encountered as a player or ran as a DM (I can cross one of these off my never encountered/ran list after last weekend) that I WANT to use.

This will be my chance.

Or designing traps. Or riddles. Or any number of other challenges (but mostly monsters ).


So, if this sounds like something that you'd be interested in, sign up! All adventurers welcome!



---

I should also add, if I'm able to get it working, I am hoping to be able to stream these sessions live on Twitch. I know that D&D Beyond has a Twitch extension (apparently the Critical Role cast is using it, but I never watch the show live and have never seen it) that, I think, would be really cool to see working. Plus, if streamed on Twitch, everything will be recorded and accessible again in the future... I know I have a love/hate dilemma when it comes to recorded games (I love it, because I think it's so cool!; but hate it because I suck, and embarrass myself) but I do believe it improves my performance over time as I'm able to focus in on the painful moments and fix or improve what I did wrong.

And don't worry, I have exactly zero Twitch followers, so it's not like there will be a huge audience or anything (but other members here would be able to check it out -- live, or recorded).

[Zhym]

I'd definitely be interested if D&D Beyond weren't a requirement—depending on the timing of the sessions, of course.

[dmw71]

I'd definitely be interested if D&D Beyond weren't a requirement—depending on the timing of the sessions, of course.

I guess I don't understand your resistance to trying it? Especially if you already have a Google account. After having experience with both Roll20 and D&D Beyond now, and I'm of the opinion that the later is far superior. It's not even that close.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not under the illusion that the D&D Beyond character sheet is perfect, but it is better. The way it integrates with the official rules is far, far superior.

I'm an avid follower of their weekly Dev Update stream on Twitch, where you can have direct contact with the head of the company. Beyond that, it's great how receptive they are to their user feedback and suggestions, and how they constantly making enhancements and improvements to their tools, which you can track on their feature roadmap.

I'm not saying now that the D&D Beyond tool will absolutely be used, but it is the direction I'm heavily leaning.

[Scott308]

I'm in.

[dmw71]

I'm in.

Invite sent.

[rredmond]

Sounds cool. G+ had a similar concept with osr characters being used in any pickup sorta game. Even had a kooky name, forget what it is now. We need a 1E version of this!

[ravenn4544]

interested. the schedule will be the toughest part but let's see.

thanks!

[dmw71]

interested. the schedule will be the toughest part but let's see.

Invite sent.

[Zhym]

I guess I don't understand your resistance to trying it?

It's mostly a privacy thing. Google already knows too much about me, and that's with me doing everything I can do avoid using Google. I'm one of the few people I know who doesn't use a Gmail account—or didn't, until I started working at a place that outsources its e-mail to Google. And then I just fowarded all my mail to a different host.

Yes, I do have a Google account, but I almost never use it. It's just there for situations where using it is absolutely unavoidable. I can't remember the last time I logged in.

I'm also kind of bemused that Google has become such a behemoth that people just assume you have a Google account. That much power in the hands of one company isn't healthy for the internet (or lots of other things I won't get into). Imagine if D&D Beyond had decided to require Facebook accounts for login, or Apple IDs. Would everyone be sanguine about their ability to use D&D Beyond being tied to having an account at a completely unrelated service?

I get why they don't have their own login system (although that's the first site I've seen that outsources user login entirely to a third party). Google is probably better at writing secure authentication schemes than anyone at Fandom, Inc. But I don't actually care overly much if my D&D Beyond account gets hacked. What's the worst that happens? Someone hacks my account and level-drains my paladin? I do care about a single account that can be used—or, eventually, is required—to access lots of different web sites, and I care about what can happen when one company controls my ability to access all those sites.

I'll say one other thing in favor of Roll20, which is that I appreciate it being an independent site. Of course D&D Beyond is better at handling 5e sheets: it's officially licensed and run by a subsidiary of a largish for-profit multinational corporation that makes money though a combination of game content, advertising, and data. Roll20 seems to me to be a bit more like the Unseen Servant forums of live internet games: independent, a little quirky, and not always working perfectly, but clearly a labor of love for all involved rather than just another way to monetize a game. It may not be as polished as D&D Beyond, but the Unseen Servant forums aren't Facebook, either (thank goodness).

These are all just my own issues, I realize, and I don't expect you to pick a platform based on my peccadillos. But that's my reasoning.

[tarlyn]

I'd definitely be interested if D&D Beyond weren't a requirement—depending on the timing of the sessions, of course.

I guess I don't understand your resistance to trying it? Especially if you already have a Google account. After having experience with both Roll20 and D&D Beyond now, and I'm of the opinion that the later is far superior. It's not even that close.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not under the illusion that the D&D Beyond character sheet is perfect, but it is better. The way it integrates with the official rules is far, far superior.

I'm an avid follower of their weekly Dev Update stream on Twitch, where you can have direct contact with the head of the company. Beyond that, it's great how receptive they are to their user feedback and suggestions, and how they constantly making enhancements and improvements to their tools, which you can track on their feature roadmap.

I'm not saying now that the D&D Beyond tool will absolutely be used, but it is the direction I'm heavily leaning.

I am trying DnD 5th edition with GreyWOlfVT

Must say I like playing D&D but 5e for me is not my cup of tea.

1st or 2nd is fine by me and sometimes depending what I play, 3rd or 3.5 (That would be Ravenloft mostly for 3rd or 3.5)

[Rex]

Dave, how soon are you thinking you would start? My weekends are booked through mid-December. If it would be after that I am interested.

[dmw71]

I am trying DnD 5th edition with GreyWOlfVT

Must say I like playing D&D but 5e for me is not my cup of tea.

1st or 2nd is fine by me and sometimes depending what I play, 3rd or 3.5 (That would be Ravenloft mostly for 3rd or 3.5)

I will admit, I was very unsure about 5e when I first started. But it grew on me. Also, I will say that if your first introduction into it is in a slow, play-by-post method, without the live interaction, you're almost certainly not going to be offered the best experience.

I've actually never played 5e via play-by-post; only live, and even then, far too sparingly. I can honestly say, if I didn't have the live 5e experience first -- where I was surrounded by people already familiar with it, and able to answer any questions right there, on the spot -- I probably wouldn't have taken to it. Even a quality DM in a play-by-post setting is going to have a difficult time fully getting a new player involved and comfortable, quickly enough.

If you like D&D, and are okay with the d20 system (e.g. 3e), I really do think you'd take to 5e if you tried it live and truly got your feet wet. Instead of taking a month or two to complete a short one-off adventure via play-by-post, you'll get a lot more benefit and a better feel if you attempted the same one-off in a single 4-hour session.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

And you're welcome to give this game a shot (assuming I do officially get it off the ground). I'd recommend it, actually. Not that I'm a great DM (this past weekend was proof of that), but because I can promise you the live experience is so much better. If not this game, try it once or twice with a local group (ideally with someone that already knows the game and has the patience to explain the details of it to a new player).

[dmw71]

Dave, how soon are you thinking you would start? My weekends are booked through mid-December. If it would be after that I am interested.

Well, the wife is getting home later today... and pitching this idea past her isn't going to be at the top of my list of things to do once she does return. But, once that conversation is had, that will determine whether I'll be able to get this thing off the ground our not.

Regardless, though, I expect it to be an ongoing thing, so if you miss the first session or two (or even a session or two in the middle), it won't be a huge deal.

But...

I only have a general idea at this point. Which I think I might elaborate on in bit (more so than I did in my original post, above). I'll definitely need to flesh it out. It's a thing of my own making, so I won't have any maps and will need to build them. Then I'll need to actually prepare all the details for the first session. It'll take me a while, especially considering I don't spend quite as much time on D&D "stuff" as I used to.

If I had to guess, the earliest I'd be ready for the first session would be in a couple weeks -- which pits me/us right up against Thanksgiving. The soonest I would likely start would be early December. Then future sessions would probably take a couple of weeks to prepare for.

I'm thinking, especially to start, this would be a once-per-month deal. Maybe, if after I do kick this thing off and it goes well... then maybe I'll shift some extra attention towards it and try to turn it into an every other week sort of thing.

You're not going to be hurt too badly if you miss the first session. Especially at lower levels.

This idea I have -- yeah, I'll explain more specifically what I had in mind here in a bit. That will give everyone a better feel for what I'm thinking, and what they'll be in store for. It'll also show you how missing a session here or there won't be the worst thing. At worst, your character may fall behind a level, but maybe not even that.


Either way, mid-December would put you in line with session two at the latest.

[dmw71]

It's mostly a privacy thing...

Yes, I do have a Google account, but I almost never use it. It's just there for situations where using it is absolutely unavoidable. I can't remember the last time I logged in.

I'm not going to belabor this point again. I'll just say, to sign into D&D Beyond, you would only need to use the credentials you already have established. Save them once you log in and you won't need to enter them again (unless you're using a different browser, or clear your cookies/cache, etc...).

I'll say one other thing in favor of Roll20, which is that I appreciate it being an independent site. Of course D&D Beyond is better at handling 5e sheets: it's officially licensed and run by a subsidiary of a largish for-profit multinational corporation that makes money though a combination of game content, advertising, and data. Roll20 seems to me to be a bit more like the Unseen Servant forums of live internet games: independent, a little quirky, and not always working perfectly, but clearly a labor of love for all involved rather than just another way to monetize a game. It may not be as polished as D&D Beyond, but the Unseen Servant forums aren't Facebook, either (thank goodness).

Yes, Roll20 is a smaller company. The guy co-founded it and runs -- Nolan -- it is kind of a %^&*, though.

My plan (which I detailed here, and probably a couple other places) was actually to drop Roll20 completely in favor or Fantasy Grounds. Unfortunately, I discovered after making that decision that, at least for how I primarily use a VTT (maps), Roll20 was more convenient as it was web-based and not an actual downloadable program that needs to be installed.

For something like this game I'm proposing, where I'll be running it live, I can all but guarantee that I'll be using Fantasy Grounds Unity after it gets released, and after I've had a chance to get remotely comfortable with it. Not Roll20. I just hope my old Macbook can actually run it (it doesn't quite meet the minimum requirements, but it's close). Before backing their Kickstarter, I asked them about it and, while they couldn't guarantee it, they did tend to think my system could handle it. We'll see.

So, this whole Roll20 vs D&D Beyond may soon be a moot point anyway.

[dmw71]

Sounds cool. G+ had a similar concept with osr characters being used in any pickup sorta game. Even had a kooky name, forget what it is now. We need a 1E version of this!

I wouldn't be opposed to running a 1e game at some point, but 5e is definitely my focus. You should still join, man. I think it'll be cool.

(I formally invite someone else to pick up that 1e torch and champion it!)

I still remember running the few 1e Skype games we did, and that one Roll20 game, and having to constantly refer to you guys (man, I miss Mitch) for the rules.

[Zhym]

I'm not going to belabor this point again. I'll just say, to sign into D&D Beyond, you would only need to use the credentials you already have established. Save them once you log in and you won't need to enter them again (unless you're using a different browser, or clear your cookies/cache, etc...).

The point is not the existence of credentials, the technical feasibility in using the credentials, or anything related to entering the credentials. It's that I am opposed to giving Google control over my ability to log in to third party sites, or letting Google see when I'm logging in.

You're skipping over the part where I have a Google account that I almost never use. On purpose. Especially not for single sign-on. If Roll20 requires Google single sign-on to create an account, I won't be using it. Sorry. You'll have plenty of fun without me.

[dmw71]

If Roll20 requires Google single sign-on to create an account, I won't be using it. Sorry. You'll have plenty of fun without me.

Fair enough. I'm sorry to hear that, but we'll have plenty of opportunities to continue gaming together via play-by-post.

Or potentially live via Fantasy Grounds once it releases (and it's character sheets work better than Roll20's do).

[Zhym]

What is Fantasy Grounds working on? I see a "Classic" version that's still 32-bit only (no Mac OS Catalina). Do you mean the 64-bit version I assume they're working on?

[dmw71]

What is Fantasy Grounds working on? I see a "Classic" version that's still 32-bit only (no Mac OS Catalina). Do you mean the 64-bit version I assume they're working on?

Yes, I mean the new version they're working on. It launched in May, and I backed it shortly thereafter. I provided a link to it (well, their Kickstarter page) in the original post in this discussion, but I'll share here again:

Fantasy Grounds Unity


I never used the original Fantasy Grounds (I could never get the networking piece to work), but once Nolan from Roll20 revealed himself to be a pud, I started to look into it (FG)... and it's pretty cool.

I hope I can get the new version to work on my old Macbook. If so, I imagine there will be a steep learning curve (again, I've literally never used it), but the old/current version is pretty feature-rich for running live games. The new version will introduce dynamic lighting (which it previously never had; but Roll20 did), and supposedly fix all the networking complications, so I'm hopeful. I'm also lightly invested in products in Fantasy Grounds (I'm pretty sure I own all the 5e core rulebooks already, plus some other stuff -- they also have the official 2e core rulebooks, and a few 1e modules) which will make me at least somewhat more motivated to transition over to it (at Roll20's expense).

[dmw71]

What is Fantasy Grounds working on? I see a "Classic" version that's still 32-bit only (no Mac OS Catalina). Do you mean the 64-bit version I assume they're working on?

Yes, I mean the new version they're working on. It launched in May, and I backed it shortly thereafter. I provided a link to it (well, their Kickstarter page) in the original post in this discussion, but I'll share here again:

Fantasy Grounds Unity


I never used the original Fantasy Grounds (I could never get the networking piece to work), but once Nolan from Roll20 revealed himself to be a pud, I started to look into it (FG)... and it's pretty cool.

I hope I can get the new version to work on my old Macbook. If so, I imagine there will be a steep learning curve (again, I've literally never used it), but the old/current version is pretty feature-rich for running live games. The new version will introduce dynamic lighting (which it previously never had; but Roll20 did), and supposedly fix all the networking complications, so I'm hopeful. I'm also lightly invested in products in Fantasy Grounds (I'm pretty sure I own all the 5e core rulebooks already, plus some other stuff -- they also have the official 2e core rulebooks, and a few 1e modules) which will make me at least somewhat more motivated to transition over to it (at Roll20's expense).