Virtual Tabletops (VTTs)

[dmw71]

I have been using Roll20 since 2014, and find it's fairly simple to use. I just did some quick calculations this morning, and while I'm over $600 invested into Roll20, I'm switching to Fantasy Grounds, for reasons. (I'll still have all my Roll20 purchases, and can still use them, but I'm no longer going to be financially supporting them.)

There are a lot of YouTube videos on the two, and I'll definitely be checking them out, but I'm curious if anyone here already uses Fantasy Grounds?

[rredmond]

Adding onto Dave's questions. What are the differences of the two?
I've heard FG has more bells and whistles, but Roll20 is free. Well, except for Dave here.

But seriously, I've never tried FG and found Roll20 adequate. So I'd love to know the differences and at what are they better/worse than each other.

Thanks!

[dmw71]

Adding onto Dave's questions. What are the differences of the two?

This is a few years old, but here is a PDF that offers a pretty extensive comparison: VTT Comparison.

Maybe the biggest difference between the two is how the tool is hosted, or set up. Roll20 is completely web-based; where the game is completely online, and hosted on the Roll20 website. For all my games, I log into Roll20 and create a game right there. Players, too, will log into Roll20 and join a game via an invite link.

Fantasy Grounds (hereafter, FG) is an actual application that needs to be downloaded and installed on your computer. Then there are all sorts of connections that need to be set up in order to connect to a game online. I don't know this piece yet (and was not able to get it to work the one time I did attempt it years ago).

I've heard FG has more bells and whistles, but Roll20 is free. Well, except for Dave here.

Mostly true.

Both have free versions, but both are limited. Then both have different steps of access, with each offering a bit more than the one before it.

Here is the link to the different licenses/subscriptions for each:

• Roll20 Subscription Levels.
• Fantasy Grounds

The biggest difference between the 'standard' and 'ultimate' licenses in FG is the ability to host free users. If the DM has an 'ultimate' license, anyone using a free account can sign in and play in that game. If the DM has a 'standard' license, all players will also need to have a 'standard' license of their own.

I currently have a 'standard' license.


Really, with either, the cost really falls on the DM. There may be ways to share content/rights (e.g. if a player in Roll20 has a Plus subscription; or a player in FG has an 'ultimate' license; they might be able to extend their benefits to a DM using a free account, but maybe not)?

Beyond licenses or subscriptions, though, there are the cost of rulesets, modules, separate maps, token, etc... You can potentially avoid this by finding images online and uploading them into your game, but, at least will Roll20, they have limits in place in how much external data you're allowed to upload and have hosted on their website.


I've never been a player in an online game using either. I've hosted exactly one Roll20 game (Ron, you were in it -- with my brother). I have to say, it was pretty cool watching you guys move your tokens around a dynamically lit map. Lighting becomes a real thing in a hosted game like this. If a character has infravision, that player can see. if the character doesn't, the player just sees black. In mixed parties, you'll have some players that can see the surroundings, while others can't. It's pretty fun and realistic.

On Roll20, for players, I think they're kind of limited in what they're able to do. Move their tokens. Roll dice (with or without macros that have previously been set up).


Here is where FG really starts to separate itself. Now, keep in mind, I am still very much learning about FG. I watched a single tutorial video last night, that I followed along with, and it's super cool! Way more automated/involved than Roll20.

For instance, character creation is pretty simple in FG. With the rules available (you get the SRD details available for free, but can pay for the actual rules), you can drag a race onto your character sheet and every component of that race is automatically added to your sheet. All the ability score modifiers. Whether you have infravision/darkvision. Etc... Same with class. Each time you drag a class onto your character sheet, it's the equivalent of adding a level; so dragging a class to your character sheet will add the 1st level of that class to your sheet. If any decisions need to be made (e.g. pick two languages, etc...), you're prompted to make those at that time. Each time you gain a level, you drag the class you want to add a level in onto your sheet and are again prompted to make any required decisions.

Character creation in Roll20 is a manual process. I think. I didn't purchase the PHB on Roll20, so it's possible there is some drag-and-drop capabilities that I'm not aware of. Again, I've never played as a player; only a DM. Even then, only once.

Other really cool things I've already picked up about FG. On your character sheet, you'll have your weapons listed. In combat, when there are tokens all over the map, you can can drag the to-hit piece of your weapon from your character sheet onto your desired enemy on the map and the tool automatically makes the roll and determines whether or not you hit (factoring in all of your abilities, modifiers, bonuses, etc... and automatically compares it against the monsters AC). If you hit, you drag the damage piece of your weapon onto the same target and the tool rolls the damage and automatically reduces that monster's hit point totals. It's really impressive!

In a live game.

Yet another really cool thing I caught on when playing with FG has to do with the chat window. As the DM, you can send a chat message and select the language the message will be sent in (e.g. elvish, giant, troll, etc...) and only the characters who speak those languages will be able to read/understand the message; everyone else will see the equivalent translation in the foreign tongue.

It's really, really cool!

The "bad" part about all this (at least for me) is, I really only use VTTs for maps, and all these cool features and automation are really most beneficial or useful when actually using the tool to play a game.

If/when I get more comfortable with FG, I really (really!) might need to look into hosting and running some actual live games.

[Scott308]

You can also send "whispers" where you type a message and only the person intended has it appear on their screen. If you want to communicate privately with another player or the DM, you can, and nobody else will know. There is a battle roster that sorts by initiative, so you can see the order and how everyone is doing health-wise. Friendly forces display the actual hit points, while enemies are color coded so you get a sense of where they are. There might be a health bar that depletes as well, but I'm not positive on that one. If you cast a spell that requires a save, the system automatically rolls so you know the results immediately.

I'm playing Dragon Heist and my friend is running it using Fantasy Grounds. He's got the Ultimate license, so he has everything. We're actually looking for a few more players if anyone is interested. Monday nights, 10- midnight, Eastern.

[dmw71]

You can also send "whispers" where you type a message and only the person intended has it appear on their screen. If you want to communicate privately with another player or the DM, you can, and nobody else will know.

It's a very cool feature. But, to be fair, this is also something you can do in Roll20.

There is a battle roster that sorts by initiative, so you can see the order and how everyone is doing health-wise. Friendly forces display the actual hit points, while enemies are color coded so you get a sense of where they are. There might be a health bar that depletes as well, but I'm not positive on that one.

This is definitely unique to FG, and I can see how it would be really helpful for everyone -- player and DM alike: 5e Combat Tracker.

If you cast a spell that requires a save, the system automatically rolls so you know the results immediately.

The automation part is what has really impressed me. It does so much for you and would make running a game a lot easier.

I'm playing Dragon Heist and my friend is running it using Fantasy Grounds. He's got the Ultimate license, so he has everything. We're actually looking for a few more players if anyone is interested. Monday nights, 10- midnight, Eastern.

I'll let you know if my Monday plans fall through.

[Scott308]

You can also send "whispers" where you type a message and only the person intended has it appear on their screen. If you want to communicate privately with another player or the DM, you can, and nobody else will know.

It's a very cool feature. But, to be fair, this is also something you can do in Roll20.

Ah. It's been a few years since I've used Roll20. I don't know if this was a feature then that we just didn't use or it came after. Or, we used it and I just don't recall.

[dmw71]

The Kickstarter for Fantasy Grounds Unity officially launched today:

Fantasy Grounds Unity, via @Kickstarter

They don't list system requirements that I can see so I'm going to double-check those before investing in an upgrade i won't be able to use.

[rredmond]

Huh, this is interesting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cNl ... 4k3bjkimtv
I'd love to download it to here, but this social worker ain't quite sure how to make that happen.

[rredmond]

I lied. Apparently any dope can figure it out.

[Rex]

Thanks for posting, really helpful for someone not super tech savy. Going to take a look at some of the simpler ones.

[rredmond]

I'm a social worker, so I'm with you on the "not super tech savvy". I've only really skimmed it, but thought it would be helpful. I figured I'd wait until Dave (who is tech savvy, and has test driven a couple of VTTs I believe) weighed in, and just agree with him.

[dmw71]

Thanks for sharing, Ron. I'll have to check some of those options out from home.

I will say, I took about an hour-long demo of the Astral Tabletop web app about a month ago and it was pretty cool. It is a true Roll20 alternative as it's a web-based application and doesn't require anyone to instill any software and/or configure network settings. That is big for me.

Actually, reviewing the other non-Honorable Mention options on the list:

• FoundryVTT
• Fantasy Grounds
• Map Tools (this is actually requiring a login to access the webpage?)
• D20 Pro
• Mythic Table

They ALL require software installation (at least by the GM). That, for me, is (almost) a non-starter as I like to be able to update my games from home or work, from any device, and when a tool requires an installation, your access is limited to just the device the tool is stored on (and I'm not installing gaming software on my work laptop).


It looks like Astral Tabletop might be the only true replacement, and it does have promise. The free version is understandably limited, but it is possible to get a good feel for the tool without cost. I would encourage anyone even curious to check out their Help page to take a look, where they a lot of information, including a section on Guides and Tutorials.


The biggest downside, at least for now, is the lack of official game support. For me, wanting to run D&D, it'll be rough to get by with just the content from the SRD (as I learned when trying to run a 5e game on Roll20 without owning the Player's Handbook). So, there is that.

[dmw71]

I figured I'd wait until Dave (who is tech savvy, and has test driven a couple of VTTs I believe) weighed in, and just agree with him.

Ha!


I will note that I have backed the Fantasy Ground Unity (FGU) Kickstarter which looks to be a big improvement over the current version of Fantasy Grounds. They claim to have eased the whole networking side of things, which I haven't been able to test (I'm not even sure my laptop will be able to support it!), but, as a live-action gaming tool, I think Fantasy Grounds is superior to Roll20. If it was web-based, it'd be a no-brainer.

But, once FGU does get released, I will definitely try it. Eventually. The biggest "issue" for me is, I primarily use VTTs for maps. Now, with Roll20, I can make updates on the map at home, then pick up where I left off while at work by logging into the website. With FG (or FGU), that type of work can only be done on the machine that has the application installed on it (which won't be my work computer).

[Rex]

It has to be web based for me, so I will take a look at Astral.

[GreyWolfVT]

Lets just say I have only used Roll20 and no I have never spent a dime on it. Works for what I use it for and I have played mostly in PyroArrow's games on there. He has a paid account. But yes there are also whispers and all that on Roll20 as well. Some functionality is harder to use until you figure out the whole macro system which I personally don't use but PyroArrow does actually spend a lot of time setting up for each PC. I have found using the more advanced features can make a game laggy as heck so turning on all the map bells and whistles plus using voice and video along with background sound you might be causing more hurt to the players than help.

Fantasy Grounds no i have heard of it but have no experience with it or any game time on there. I don't even have an account never knew they had a free options in years past there wasn't a free option when I tried unless I was merely going about it wrong.

[Scott308]

I play in a campaign on Fantasy Grounds. As a player, it didn't cost me anything since he has the Ultimate License. It is a pretty cool system, and I'm looking forward to being able to see the new version. The one disadvantage with FG is the DM has to be online with the game running for me to be able access it, so I can only work on a character if he's able to be on as well.

[GreyWolfVT]

I play in a campaign on Fantasy Grounds. As a player, it didn't cost me anything since he has the Ultimate License. It is a pretty cool system, and I'm looking forward to being able to see the new version. The one disadvantage with FG is the DM has to be online with the game running for me to be able access it, so I can only work on a character if he's able to be on as well.

That is a bit of a disadvantage and one thing that Roll20 doesn't currently have as a problem. Though sometimes it would be helpful to have the DM online to work on the character if you have questions. So there are up and down sides to both.

[Scott308]

I know having the DM on is a help to the other players who aren't as familiar with 5e, but it actually slows me down, as we'll end up chatting as I work on the character and am not as focused as I would like. And it is pretty inconvenient to try scheduling some time to do that in addition to regular gametime.

[dmw71]

I will say, I took about an hour-long demo of the Astral Tabletop web app about a month ago and it was pretty cool.

There's a banner on the DMs Guild website advertising the fact that all paid features for the Astral Tabletop are free through April:

Astral.png (137.8 KiB) Viewed 2581 times

If anyone has been curious or tempted, but haven't acted yet, now would be a great opportunity to check it out.

[rredmond]

Looks like Fantasy Grounds is on sale: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2526 ... y_Grounds/
It's on Steam, I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but the price seems right if anyone was interested.