OOC Discussion and Table Talk II

[Scott308]

What is the difference in height between sections 5 and 8? Can Risdac see the Wall of Flame from where he stands?

[Zhym]

Sections 5 and 8 are on the same level, 15' below the aft ledge where Odilo and Xale are and 35' below the ledge where Khogeki and Tanner stand.

[Scott308]

I can't remember- are they 5' or 10' squares on the map?

[Zhym]

10'.

[Zhym]

Would this cause the entire wall to be dispelled or just the area of effect, leaving part of the wall still there? If Risdac would know the entire wall would disappear, he will instead cast it where the wall bends in an attempt to not disrupt any spells Odilo had cast. If it would only disrupt a portion, or he would not be sure what will happen, he will center the spell to try avoiding placing Xale and Odio in the area of effect but still removing the wall near where Hallagad stands.

I'll say it dispels the part of the wall that falls in the area of effect.

If you can mark your intended area of effect on the map, that'd be helpful.

[Scott308]

Here is where I would like to place the Dispel Magic, outlined in green:

[Zhym]

The humble sensei bows to Tanner. Then he runs down the sheer, vertical wall and races to the barrier of purple flames. He calmly disbelieves in its existence.

Inferno,

Is there a monk ability or magic item that will let the monk run down a vertical wall? His climb walls ability is like a thief's climb walls skill—effective, but not fast. The ring of flying will let him fly, of course, but at the 12" movement rate of the fly spell, not the monk's running speed.

[Zhym]

Also, I'm going to try a new rule:

If you want to attempt to disbelieve something as an illusion, you have to commit to it. That means:
(1) The only action you can take that round (in combat) or turn (out of combat) is attempt to disbelieve, or
(2) You need to take some action to prove your (dis)belief.

Method (2) will have a much greater chance of success than method (1).

For method (2), I'm thinking of things like Indiana Jones stepping off of the lion's head or Spock, Kirk, and McCoy letting the Earps shoot them down. The way you prove something is an illusion is by testing that illusion, not by saying "I don't think that's real." If you don't think it's real, act as if it isn't real. Walk through the wall of fire. Let the dragon attack. Step off the cliff. Then face the consequences if you're wrong.

I've added this to the house rules.

[Rex]

If Xale passes through the wall of fire, would it destroy the insect swarm?

[Zhym]

That would be something to try, wouldn't it?

The problem is this:

I'm going to say that this spell description also prevents movement while swarmed:

The attacked creature will sustain 2 hit points of damage per melee round, and it can do nothing but attempt to fend off these insects during the time it is so attacked.

(Emphasis added.)

The spell description says the target can do nothing but fend off the insects.

OTOH, running through a wall of fire to fend off insects is getting into Rule of Cool territory, so I might allow it. But I'd need to set limits on how much someone afflicted by an insect swarm can move (or we'll have the Unseen Servant outrunning them one round, doing stuff in the rounds it takes the swarm to catch up, then outrunning them again...).

Hm. Maybe I can house rule that someone who is swarmed can move, but is so busy trying to fend off the bugs that he or she can only move at 30'/round (the swarm's movement rate, IIRC).

[Rex]

OK, sounds good let me know what you finaly decide, if I can I will attempt to move through the fire to destroy the swarm.

[Zhym]

I'm operating under the assumption that he'll only be in the fire for a couple of segments per p.130 of the DMG. I feel a bit metagamy, but also think that a high level paladin will very well understand the capabilities and protections the ring affords.

That's a fair assumption, but I think you're overlooking one detail: the monsters are on a ledge 15' above Hallagad. The wall of fire is in front of that ledge. How does Hallagad plan to scale the 15'?

I'm still pondering the question of moving while fending off insects. I keep coming up with too many side effects to have to deal with. For example, could someone move out of the spell's range by running away from the caster? What should be the maximum speed of someone trying to move? Would the person be able to choose a direction, or is the swarm so thick that he'd have to move randomly, like someone stricken by a fear spell? It's simpler just to go with the book description and say that the target of a summon insects spell can't do anything but try to fend off the bugs until the spell duration expires or someone else finds a way to get rid of them. On the other hand, I like the idea of characters being able to try to get rid of the insects by running into the nearest wall of fire or jumping into a nearby lake.

Any thoughts on a good way to resolve this?

[Rex]

On the insect swarm, how about adding an element of chance. So say that you can't tell where you are going so if Xale tries to run in a certain direction you could use the grenade table (I think there is one for thrown oil) to determine the actual direction they move. I agree with the max move matching the swarm so you can't out run it. You don't really need the table a 1d8 for compass points would work.

[AleBelly]

I'm operating under the assumption that he'll only be in the fire for a couple of segments per p.130 of the DMG. I feel a bit metagamy, but also think that a high level paladin will very well understand the capabilities and protections the ring affords.

That's a fair assumption, but I think you're overlooking one detail: the monsters are on a ledge 15' above Hallagad. The wall of fire is in front of that ledge. How does Hallagad plan to scale the 15'?

Damn it, I did overlook that.

OK, instead he will hold his sword aloft and attempt to dispel the magic (as per holy avenger) that created the wall of fire. If he can control it, he will dispel the magic only up to the ledge so he doesn't dispel any magic his companions may be using.

[Zhym]

The Holy Avenger dispels magic in a 5' radius, so there's no risk of dispelling any magic atop the 15'-high ledge.

[Inferno]

Is there a monk ability or magic item that will let the monk run down a vertical wall? His climb walls ability is like a thief's climb walls skill—effective, but not fast. The ring of flying will let him fly, of course, but at the 12" movement rate of the fly spell, not the monk's running speed.

Hi,
Yes. It's this, from PHB p. 31:

At 13th level (Master of Winter), a monk can fall any distance if he or she is within 8' of a wall.

I'm guessing he's falling at the same rate he can run, at least. "Running down the wall" was just some magical ninja-esque color description. Sorry I was unclear.

Also, given the new rules on illusions, I'll alter my action post, and consider an Illusionist for my next character in this game!

[Zhym]

Hey all. Sorry, but no update tonight. Hopefully I'll have a chance to update tomorrow.

[GreyWolfVT]

that's ok Zhym game update Odilo vomits more eventually one would wonder how he has anything left in his stomach at this stage...

[Rex]

Dry heaves suck

[Zhym]

Hey everyone. I want to draw your attention to a change in the most recent update, in case you've already read the post. When I wrote the post, I forgot that Khogeki has to save against the monster's stink.

Inferno, save v. Paralysis: [1d20] = 5

That fails, unless there's another monk power I'm forgetting. (I am factoring in Khogeki's cloak of protection.)