Unspeakable Oaths (ooc and questions ll)

[Inferno]

Don't sweat it, OM.
Mistrusting and falsely accusing your fellow PCs is a time-honored trope of the paranoid, bodysnatcher-type horror movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aF2fSnIYvo

Also, splitting the party.

[Inferno]

Does Telkis sense that any of the passages south seem to slope upwards or downwards? As in, could possibly be a way out?

Hi Chub,
Sorry. I wasn't ignoring you. I usually answer the OOC questions (like Fulci's spell clarification) asap.
I usually save the findings of IC investigations for my full updates, and needed Pelias to chime in before I could post.

As you see from my post, I assumed you borrowed Ingrid's lantern to check the tunnel slopes. Do you carry the lantern down the new right-hand path, or leave it at the crossroads? Thanks!

[ChubbyPixie]

No worries 'tall. It had been a while, then I think you had posted a clarification, then I was second guessing if that was your official post and thought Telkis' action might have gotten missed...

And, yes, since the stuff down here seems to lack body heat, let's say Telkis carries the lantern for now.

[ChubbyPixie]

Grothnak follows right behind Telkis if he can get into position.

We should get a fantasy blacksmith to attach a halberd bracket to the top of Telkis's helmet.

[Inferno]

AleBelly:
Ogre Mage has slightly modified Bo's post for this round, to reflect that Bo left before Hoom and Mouser started the fire. (Thanks, OM)

If this change makes you want to alter Pelias' post for this round, go for it.
That said, discovering the fire might be enough to implicate Hoom and Mouser in Pelias' mind. It's not the first time that Pelias has suspected Hoom of betrayal. So, it's entirely up to you to change Pelias' post or not.

Thanks.

[AleBelly]

Yes, the fire was what led Pelias to wonder about betrayal. His complaint earlier was of cowardice, but now he suspects them of treachery...

It's pretty cut and dried playing a paladin, even if he is a tiresome ass!

[Zhym]

Grothnak would be right there with Pelias. Why would a friend set fire to our only known escape route?

[Inferno]

Yes, the fire was what led Pelias to wonder about betrayal. His complaint earlier was of cowardice, but now he suspects them of treachery...

Thanks.

Grothnak would be right there with Pelias. Why would a friend set fire to our only known escape route?

Well, in horror movies, right up there with paranoia, and splitting the party, is burning the place down:











Hoom and Mouser are totally apropos for the genre!

[Fulci]

(Sigourney Weaver testing the flamethrower for Alien on the lawn at Shepperton Studios)

[Inferno]

Ingrid Esthof, cleric
I haven't stated this explicitly in my previous post, but Ingrid picks up the lantern she placed down on the ground before the fight!

I'll have her pick it up now, as she investigates this chamber.

(In light of this, I should clarify that my intention is to have Moogeye prod the muddy ground at the far wall, but not the wall itself—i.e., nothing that looks like its holding the cavern up. I realize my post is pretty ambiguous.)

Ok. Got it.

Inferno, please let me know if this assumption isn't correct. As I understand it, it's wet stone where they are, which is unlikely to burn. Can Pelias tell if the wood bracings are spaced far enough apart to avoid spreading?

Yes. The tunnels are earth, mud and rock. The eastern tunnels (near the barred door, and the fire) have standing water and waterlogged support timbers. So it's unlikely the fire will enter the tunnels soon.
The danger is smoke and asphyxiation, should the wind change.

[Grognardsw]

I just noticed this second OOC thread. That sounds lame I know. So to catch up...

Belated welcome Starbeard. I believe Mouser is wearing a red jerkin.

On the fire: So you leave two thieves in the HQ of mad villagers and complain about tactics? As voiced IC, Mouser half-expects the party to be exiting the tunnels elsewhere, as finding out where they go is the point of it all.

Looking at the real posted dialogue after the Bo edit, I think its a stretch, and oddly disjointed, to keep Pelias' accusation of treachery. Pelias' post previous to that actually noted his lack of concern about the fire.

[AleBelly]

To go deeper on why Pelias thinks the way he does:

At best, he knows that Hoom fled up the ladder and that Mouser likely never came down. Or at least that's my understanding of the actions. He will see that as cowardice. He has no idea why they acted the way they did, only that they aren't there again to face danger with the party.

Although he's not concerned about the fire as an immediate safety hazard, others in the party commented that it is their only known escape route. Making that escape route impassable would raise suspicions in Pelias' eyes, especially if it's performed by thieves, who Pelias would naturally have a dim view of anyway given the code a paladin is supposed to live by. Note also that he asks others whether betrayal was committed. He realizes he may not have all the information, but until he's informed otherwise the idea that Mouser/Hoom fled (or became entranced by a spell of evil) will have legitimacy to him.

I've said this in other games, but I don't use my PCs to passive aggressively criticize other players, and I hope Pelias' actions aren't taken this way. I'm just trying to play my character out the way I think he would react in certain situations. So I (as a player) certainly wasn't complaining about tactics.

[Zhym]

Grothnak's logic is simpler: Villagers set the fire at the barn. Thus, villagers set fires. This fire must also have been set by villagers. QED!

[Grognardsw]

At best, he knows that Hoom fled up the ladder and that Mouser likely never came down. Or at least that's my understanding of the actions. He will see that as cowardice. He has no idea why they acted the way they did, only that they aren't there again to face danger with the party.

I'm assuming by ladder you mean the trapdoor ladder down into the torture chamber? If so, the situation was different than you understand.

A close reading of the IC posts shows Hoom and Mouser came down with everyone else. Pelias was in the room and thus witnessed Mouser free the damsel in the cage, Moogeye (a very paladin thing to do if I do say so.) So I'm not sure how Pelias could think Mouser never came down.

Then the zombies started bursting in the tunnel door. With that imminent threat, Mouser suggested the damsel Moogeye get out of the room via the ladder. He told her to get up the ladder, and suggested Ingrid start Turning. Hoom went up first to open the door and guard up there. Avril tried to guide Moogeye up the ladder and got hit by her for such chivalry. Mouser stayed at the base bottom of the ladder. Then Hoom came back down. Pelias was in the room during all that.

Hoom and Mouser along with everyone else then went through the tunnel door. At the last moment Hoom brought up what if the door is barred behind us. So he, Mouser, and Bo stayed behind. Pelias would have been aware of the reasoning as the party was together at that point. Alone with the thieves, Bo split like a white guy at a rap concert and made his way back.

He has no idea why they acted the way they did, only that they aren't there again to face danger with the party.

Pelias knows why they acted the way they did. If the basis for Pelias' assumptions aren't true, his follow-on response to Bo's old-and-now-edited post (itself based on a misreading of the timeline) seems illogical and extreme in light of that.

To maintain Pelias' opinion of cowardice in light of the correct facts seems a stretch of the paladin philosophy, and disregards Hoom and Mouser's record of risking life in battle for the party and scouting alone at some risk to find clear path and status of the inn.

[Inferno]

Then the zombies started bursting in the tunnel door. With that imminent threat, Mouser suggested the damsel Moogeye get out of the room via the ladder. He told her to get up the ladder, and suggested Ingrid start Turning. Hoom went up first to open the door and guard up there. Avril tried to guide Moogeye up the ladder and got hit by her for such chivalry. Mouser stayed at the base bottom of the ladder. Then Hoom came back down. Pelias was in the room during all that.

Well, fog of war and all that. The above scene happened in a pitch dark room, with the noise of screaming zombies. So Pelias could have easily missed many of the actions and intentions you list here.

Pelias knows why they acted the way they did.

Well, maybe he knows what explanations were said aloud. But can any man truly know another's intentions?
Maybe Pelias just doesn't believe them? In his eyes, they're thieves!

Frustrating as it is, I think you may have to accept that Pelias is, as Ale said, "a tiresome ass." It's possible he's prejudiced against thieves. All men have weaknesses and faults, even paladins. You may disagree, but it's Ale's decision how to play his character.

You've laid out your points. So well in fact that now I wonder whether Hoom and Mouser set this fire.
Let's now please save this argument for IC play. I'm happy for IC arguments. Less so for OOC ones.

I have nothing but respect for each of you as players and DMs. Let's play.
Thanks.

[Inferno]

"This is exactly the kind of delay we cannot afford!" growls Grothnak. He swings Vadok over Telkis at the snake's head (if he can reach it) but misses wildly.

Vadok (Halberd +1) (THAC0 19): [1d20+2] = 1+2 = 3, Dmg [1d10+4] = 10+4 = 14 (S/M) [2d6+4] = 7+4 = 11 (L)
Fumble: [1d8] = 6 Make Dex check or drop weapon.
Dex check (13): [1d20] = 1 Easy peasy.

Hi Zhym:
We said that fumbles that occur while Grothnak swings over Telkis' head will result in a chance to hit Telkis, rather than a random roll on the Fumble chart.

Fyi, Telkis is AC 4 from behind.

[ChubbyPixie]

oH, yeah. We did say that...

[Inferno]

No one said being Grothnak's meat shield would be an easy life.

[ChubbyPixie]

Poor Telkis. He's just a little guy!

I forget - Zhm would just roll another straight up to hit roll against Telkis' rear AC? ...Which sounds weird when you say it that way...

[Inferno]

Yes.

If Zhym can't get to it before I post next (likely tomorrow) then I'll roll it.

Roll poorly, Grothnak!