OOC VI

[Alethan]

We can approach them if we run in their direction:

Run: A combatant using the run action can move up to three times their normal per-round movement speed (usually 120’ for an unencumbered character).

They would have more trouble approaching us since we're on higher ground (if I understand correctly).

Sorry, what I was getting at is that we'd still have a good round to make ranged attacks/cast mass-affecting spells, target specific people with magic missile, etc. before worrying about melee.

I think keeping the high ground and attacking from a distance while we can is a good tactical goal.

[frobozz]

Sorry, what I was getting at is that we'd still have a good round to make ranged attacks/cast mass-affecting spells, target specific people with magic missile, etc. before worrying about melee.

I suppose it depends on their reaction and which direction they move. If they run towards us to attack, then we would probably have a full round for ranged attacks and spells. If they run away from us back into the woods, then they may be gone before we can do anything (particularly if they win initiative over the spellcasters). I believe it is a rule in Dark Dungeons that you have to be able to see the targets of your spells to be able to cast spells (I don't have the pdf with me at the moment.)

I think keeping the high ground and attacking from a distance while we can is a good tactical goal.

Agreed.

[thirdkingdom]

There's no real mechanical advantage to being on higher ground. That was mostly just fluff to explain how you guys were able to get the drop on them.

however

I will most likely not allow them to run at full speed up the slope. In other words, you guys could run down in one round, but it would likely take them a full round to ascend (i.e. they would not be able to attack at the end of the round). The information in Running in Combat can be found on page 134. It does not explicitly state that you can run and attack in a single round, but I am going to allow that. However, there will be a -2 penalty applied to the attack roll.

[frobozz]

Cast it on a sling bullet and then we'll always have that as a light source...

Hmmm... This comment just got me thinking about something...

Do we not have a Continual Light lantern? From the "Custom/Unique Items" thread, here is its description:

Continual Light Lantern
Lantern with a Continual Light spell cast upon it. Lantern can be shuttered for total darkness.

I would assume that since the lantern is shutterable to bring about total darkness, that it must be made of lead. So, we might already have the light source that we need in this situation! In which case, Drudsa's Continual Light spell could be saved to try to blind one of our opponents.

[frobozz]

Hey guys, my apologies if any of my posts yesterday offended (particularly the one in which I quoted riftstone, which in hindsight was unneccessary). My intention was just to bring clarification to these kinds of situations to make sure that players and DM are on the same page, both now and in the future.

Not sure how everyone else feels about the level of OOC chatter during combat situations. I'm kind of torn about it myself. On the one hand, it is pretty unrealistic to be able to have back-and-forth planning during the round-by-round heat of battle, but on the other hand I find that player strategizing during battle is actually a pretty fun aspect of the game. To strike a balance, I do try to limit what my character says IC to one or two brief statements at most, although sometimes those brief statements need further clarification so that they are not misinterpreted by the other players, which I will then do OOC if necessary. Lanny is a military-minded elf (a future officer in the Duke's Elvenguard?) and so trying to get the group to work together as a cohesive unit definitely comes naturally to him. On the other hand, I (the player) never want to just tell another player what to do (what fun is that?) So, with that in mind, please always feel free to take a different action even if a plan has already been suggested, or to suggest a different plan altogether. Thanks.

[riftstone]

I am good with the OOC in combat, it is nice to see what everybody thinks during those situations.

[Alethan]

I'm fine with a very limited amount of OOC discussion in combat.

<honest hat>
I keep going back to the first gnoll group we came upon, where the surprise round and first round seemed to take forever because of OOC chatter/plotting/strategics discussion. It basically killed that combat for me because it was so drawn out.
</honesty hat>

[zebediah]

As a matter of principle I avoid retracting any already stated actions unless there was some mistake. OOC discussion in the middle of combat is fine IMO if it doesn't get in the way of the game's pace. Also, it makes for a smoother read of the IC thread if we leave OOC for the OOC thread (even using spoilers).

[Finglas]

I think my sentiments are similar to Alethan's, when it comes to strategizing for a battle that has already started: a limited amount of OOC discussion is fine, even necessary, so that we clearly understand each others actions and intentions. If the OOC discussion grows to fill an entire page, however, then it feels like it does not fit within the context of a fast-paced battle. One can kinda sense when the discussion has digressed too far.

It's also interesting to see how each of us has a different opinion on what would be the best course of action for the group. If an individual leads the way, so to speak, and it makes sense to Bregalad, then he will try to support that individual. And it's fun to see different ideas come from different people, and then have a plan organically form!

I loved your original tactic, Lanny, with the Magic Missile and Sleep spells, and so Bregalad immediately supported it. But when it became clear that there was a magic user on the opposing side, and when Thordin and Innana were put to sleep, then it made sense to adopt Drudsa's plan and protect him (and Rhys) while they roused the warriors. The changing and impromtu tactics that occur (as the battle unfolds) is an enjoyable aspect of the game for me.

[frobozz]

Good points all around. I think the need for a lot of OOC strategizing could be reduced (and much confusion could be reduced as well) if the party keeps in mind a general "order of precedence" for declared combat intentions:

1st: spells
2nd: missile attacks
3rd: melee attacks

By this I mean:

If a PC tries to immediately engage an enemy in melee, that might prevent others from attacking with missile weapons or casting spells. Conversely, knowing in advance which spells are going to be cast would help those with missile weapons and melee weapons know which enemies to target and which to avoid. Keeping this in mind would not only reduce the need for a lot of OOC discussion, but would also help to ensure that the group really does work together a cohesive unit and not as individuals.

I generally like the idea of a quick check OOC at the beginning of a combat to confirm the basic outlines of a strategy (including initial spells that plan to be cast). That way, all players are on the same page about how to proceed, even though the plan may evolve as the situation evolves.

Lastly, I agree with Drudsa about trying to reduce the use of the "solitary spoiler block" as an IC post (I know, I know, I just posted one of them myself). I understand why it happens (because it is usually in direct response to the IC post directly above it) but I agree it can make the IC thread pretty ugly pretty quickly.

[Finglas]

Good points all around. I think the need for a lot of OOC strategizing could be reduced (and much confusion could be reduced as well) if the party keeps in mind a general "order of precedence" for declared combat intentions:

1st: spells
2nd: missile attacks
3rd: melee attacks

I personally would not want to have a general "order of precedence" established. One, it feels too much like a Standard Operating Procedure, which is fine for things like handling locked doors in a dungeon, because it keeps little tasks from bogging the adventure down. But if followed for most battles, it would take away a lot of individual choices and creativity. Secondly, situations vary to such a degree that the "order of precedence" may work beautifully in one battle, and then disastrously in another.

Just looking at our current battle, I thought Thordin's actions were pretty badass. If you recall, we decided to converse with the enemy, while Thordin was working his way down the ridge. If he did not do that, all of the bandits may have targeted someone much more vulnerable, say Drudsa. After all, they knew much more about us (with the doppleganger's report), than we knew about them. This battle could have started off much worse, if we started off with only spells and missile fire (and Thordin not attempting to engage in melee). Up to this point our spells and missile fire have not produced even one enemy casualty; only Rhys and Aquar's melee attacks have.

[frobozz]

Maybe "order of precedence" was not the right term, as I did not mean for it to be thought of like a "standard operating procedure" at all. I simply meant that players should just keep in mind the way in which one declared action could prevent another declared action. For example, you mentioned the case of Thordin in this battle. True, he did start moving menacingly down the hill on his own (very badass indeed). But, once riftstone the player and Thordin the character heard the OOC chatter and the IC shouts that a Sleep spell was in the works, he stopped halfway down the hill and waited for the enemy to come to him, thereby allowing the chance for the Sleep spell to be cast without it affecting him as well. His movement down the hill also placed him in a position to guard our spellcasters and bowmen just in case something tried to charge up the hill at us. So, in that case, I would say that the "order of precedence" (or whatever we want to call it) worked to perfection - ie., we worked together as a team.

[frobozz]

BTW check out the new format for the character sheets. Pretty sweet, IMO.

[frobozz]

TK - are we still using the rules for Shields Shall Be Splintered? If not, no worries (as I realize it would make the current situation somewhat anti-climactic) although Lanny would normally utilize the rule to repel any blow that would otherwise kill him. (I'm ok with just rolling with it though, since Lanny passed his first Saving Throw vs. Death.)

All - One thing we might consider doing in future combat situations is to have Semele (if she is in non-combatant mode) to have readied a "Cure Minor Wounds" action so that she can attempt to cast it on a fallen PC at the end of the same round in which the PC falls (ie., before the fallen PC has to roll their first Saving Throw vs. Death). As a group we have been pretty lucky thus far in making our initial Saving Throws vs. Death, and eventually our luck is going to run out if we don't try something different!

[thirdkingdom]

I can retcon that last hit to use Shields May be Splintered.

[frobozz]

I can retcon that last hit to use Shields May be Splintered.

OK, let's go with that, then, since I would not have known in advance that Lanny would pass his Saving Throw vs. Death.

[thirdkingdom]

I can retcon that last hit to use Shields May be Splintered.

OK, let's go with that, then, since I would not have known in advance that Lanny would pass his Saving Throw vs. Death.

I will edit momentarily. As to Semele, I would normally have her take some form of action, but she is not (nor are any outside the woods) aware of the recent event.

[frobozz]

I will edit momentarily. As to Semele, I would normally have her take some form of action, but she is not (nor are any outside the woods) aware of the recent event.

Good point!

[frobozz]

Aquar, cleric

Aquar spits on the dead bandit then moves to assist the injured Lanny.

"Stay still lad and I'll bind you up," he says.

First aid, 3x proficiency. Then we'll see we're things are at for CLW.

Thanks Grog, although I think First Aid can only be performed at the end of combat (and it takes a full minute (6 rounds) to complete the use of the skill).

viewtopic.php?p=47283#p47283

Lanny intends to rejoin the battle in Round 11 if Innana does not kill the cleric in Round 10 (Lanny will circle around and attack the cleric from behind).

[thirdkingdom]

I'm going to try and get this resolved tonight. My taxes have to be done by tomorrow morning, so I've been pretty slammed recently.