OOC

[Juramenta]

I have a family medical situation requiring travel through next Sunday. I may have some downtime later in the week and be able to post. But if not, please NPC Delx. Thanks!

Best of luck.
Hopefully everything turns out well.

[Grognardsw]

I have a family medical situation requiring travel through next Sunday. I may have some downtime later in the week and be able to post. But if not, please NPC Delx. Thanks!

Hope things go as well as they can.

I checked the character and I think I know what went wrong. Elcroon needs Rote for his talent, not wizardry (or rote on top of wizardry). No more side effects to worry about, only harm. He should be good to go then.

Thanks Juramenta for pointing that out, it helped alot!

[Juramenta]

Happy to help!
Nothing sucks more than having a character not able to do what you build it for.
Besides, we need him. The singing alone is keeping morale up. Our characters can't go back anymore after having experienced that luxury now!

[tibbius]

I opened new topics for Juramenta / Bishop on the elevator and for grognardsw + jemmus / Elcroon + Delx + Black Dog on the stairs.

[Grognardsw]

Here is my map for the summit levels. It is not completely accurate somehow, but good enough.

A second troubling thought presented itself in his map. How to account for the overlapping location of the nursery and this hall? Was the hall beneath the nursery, or vice versa? Such cartographic mysteries.

Here is the current map for the lower levels we’re in.

[jemmus]

Thanks Grog!

[Juramenta]

Looks good indeed.
Nice work.

[tibbius]

Very nice.

I have an Excalidraw scrawl that is less precise due to there being passages intervening between most of the rooms. It is entirely possible that the throne room is below the nursery.

[tibbius]

A magic using character can attempt any spell they witness.

[jemmus]

Yes, very nice. Thanks!

[tibbius]

I am considering another switcheroo on the rules. Before I go further, please let me know how you feel about the play with 2400 Legends so far.

[Juramenta]

I really like the concept, having fun with it.
It's simple and straightforward.
So I am fine continuing on with this one, but also open to switching.
Whatever works for you is fine by me. I do suggest every switch with the rules comes with a standard extra level up, I mean, that's just common sense right?

[jemmus]

I'm good with a rules switch.

[Juramenta]

Would it be an idea to tie it to an event happening in the game?
That would be an easy excuse explaining why certain parts of our character changed due to the different ruleset used.

[tibbius]

Motivation for the switch is primarily that rote magic and missile weapons are too powerful / easy and not rote magic is too dangerous. Downside of the switch would be I need to do a little more "paperwork".

Please take a look at Dungeon Goons ... I have solid ideas for how to make magic more balanced with that system.

And here is a link to
a character sheet.

Yes there would be a level up to acknowledge player patience. Plus working the two previous level ups into the new character sheets.

[Grognardsw]

Okay

[Juramenta]

I checked it out and it looked fine by me.
Really simplistic like the others. Think it depends on how you want to handle magic.
In this new system your not really a caster with so little spells per day. So I'm looking forward to see what your plans for the magic overhaul will be.

[tibbius]

Thoughts about magic with Dungeon Goons:

You need +2 Erudite or better to cast a spell. Each spell has a DS. 2 words = DS 8, 3 words = DS 10, 4 words = DS 12. Spells have full effect against opponents with equal or lower DS. Higher DS opponents get an even/odd save against lower DS spells.

Each spell in your head fills an inventory slot in your backpack on the sheet. It's physically taxing to carry arcane energy like that.

When you listen for a spell, you'll hear one and you can choose whether to keep it in your head. It takes a few (1d6) hours to listen.

When you cast a spell (roll +Erudite, risk loss of hp, happens instantly) — or record it in a book (same roll, same risk, takes 1d6 days) — it leaves your head.

You can copy a spell from a book (no roll, no risk, takes 1d6×1d6 hours) into your head. The spell stays in the book, too. Each book holds one spell. It takes dozens to hundreds of pages to fully describe and capture the energies that throb in your head as just two or three words.

There is a tower in Magog called the Blue Library. It's a major repository of spellbooks. It charges a very steep admission fee. The books aren't well cataloged, but they're kind of generally organized and you can quickly scan their titles as you move among the shelves. There are librarians who will guide you, too.

The book of a spell, if you're holding it, gives you +1 to cast the spell.

Things that aren't looking like books can be "books" for spells. Like Elcroon's mighty sword, which is closely engraved with the weirdness of Chariot Transport Vulture. Or Bishop's staff, which is likewise engraved with Summon Wood Servant and Whisper Ghost.

[Juramenta]

So, under the proposed system, it takes 6-36 hours to memorize a single spell, which is then lost after casting. On top of that, it takes up an inventory slot and has a chance of causing HP loss? That’s pretty rough.

I have a proposition, but it's not well thought out yet. Probably needs some tweaking, but should give an idea what I am thinking about.
I am fine using the other system, this is merely meant as a suggestion.

Alternative Magic System Proposal
Instead of making spellcasting so restrictive, what if we allow casters be casters and allow them to cast freely but balance them more effectively against other classes?

Spell Inventory:
Each spell still takes up an inventory slot, reducing space for weapons, armor, and other gear. This naturally makes casters more fragile, as they have less room for protective equipment.
Max amount of spells that can be stored is linked to the Erudite score.
Just as a shield adds to the attack, so would a wand or other magic specific gear add to the roll.


Damaging Spells
- These function similarly to weapons.
- They can be cast repeatedly without being forgotten.
- They follow the same rules for rolling and damage as melee or ranged attacks but use Erudite instead of Brute.
- Just like weapons, damaging spells start at +1 and can be upgraded through training or magical enhancements.
- Unlike weapons, spells cannot be disarmed, but they are also harder to upgrade compared to just finding a better sword.

Non-Damaging Spells (Utility Spells)
- These require a DS (difficulty score) check based on the spell's base DS (decided upon during creation).
- Failing a roll deals 1hp damage, which cannot be healed by magic, only resting.

Duration-Based Spells (Concentration Spells)
- These require semi-permanent HP drain rather than just receiving damage that can be healed.
- The caster’s maximum HP is reduced while the spell remains active.
- The amount of HP drain depends on the spell’s level and power.

Example: A summoning spell at level 1 gives the summon a +1 bonus to Brute, Skulker, or Erudite, but the caster’s max HP is drained by the spell’s level while it's maintained.
If the concentration spell is dispelled or destroyed, the max HP drain remains as damage until the caster rests or receives magical healing.
So a level 4 summon, read 4 points to spend on stats, would turn the 10hp into max 6hp for the entire duration. Once the spells ends, the max restores to it's original score, but the amount turns into damage taken like a non-damaging spell and can be restored in the same way.

The way a duration spell takes damage depends on its nature:
A summons or some area-effect like a 'web' spell can take damage.
Non-physical effects that are ongoing (e.g., continuous Detect Magic) can only be ended through dispel or other magic unraveling effects.
A duration spell starts with half of the caster’s natural maximum HP (rounded up) when created.

Area of Effect Spells
- AoE spells cost HP per additional target.
Example: A Flaming Chariot spell affects one target for free, but each extra target costs 1 HP.
- The max number of targets is equal to the caster’s level.
A level 1 caster can hit one target.
A level 4 caster can hit up to 4 targets but loses 3 HP in doing so.
- Duration spells cannot be cast as AoE, as that would be too powerful.

Parley Tricks
Parley Tricks are small magical effects that add flair to a caster’s abilities. While minor in effect, they still take up an inventory slot to create.
These spells aren’t commonly found for purchase. Instead, they are learned from other casters or personally developed, making each one unique in both its casting method and visual style.

Some examples:
- Revive a near-dead plant, bringing it back to full health.
- Create minor illusions, like a flickering shadow or a floating sigil.
- Conjure a simple light, illuminating a small area.

Parley Tricks can be cast at will, but their uniqueness lies in how each caster personalizes them, making their magic truly their own.

Again, the above is just a suggestion.
I am fine with however you prefer to play.

[tibbius]

I like your suggestions!

What do others think?