OOC IV

[thirdkingdom]

This is a strategy I wholly support, as evidenced by my post IC and not in a spoiler or PM. I really really really really try and avoid situations where the entire group is waiting on the response of one or two PCs and would actually like to limit the amount it happens.

[Alethan]

Lanny the elf

While Saul is being turned invisible, Lanny holds on to a small object of Saul's choice (perhaps Saul's mirror) so that it will not be made invisible, but can still be concealed on Saul's person, perhaps in a pocket.

Hmmm... I guess I've never understood the mechanics of the invisibility spell to work this way. You are treating it more like HP's cloak of invisibility, or perhaps an elven cloak, where lifting up the cloak would reveal objects underneath that are not invisible. I always thought of it as the person and everything they have is turned invisible, even the insides of their pockets. They could take off the shirt they were wearing at the time the spell was cast, and their bare chest would be invisible; you wouldn't see some grotesque partial torso floating in the middle of the room. With that understood, if you give them something to hold, that entire object is visible, even where they are grasping it with their hands. So if they pick up a non-invisible object, they don't really have any way of hiding it by cupping it in their hands or tucking it into a pocket or putting it under their invisible cloak. If they grasp a candlestick around the stem, you still see the whole candlestick, not just the candle and the very top and very bottom of the candlestick. I figure its the same way if they try and tuck a visible object into their pocket. You'd still see the object.

[frobozz]

Ok. Well, it seems like a good place to start the strategizing is to take inventory of our prepared offensive spells that are still remaining, in case we wish to incorporate them into the plan:

Magic Missile (x4 - Drudsa, Tratiln, Bregalad, Lanny)
Invisibility (x2 - Bregalad, Lanny)
Mirror Image (x1 - Drudsa)
Sleep (x1 - Tratiln)
Light (x1 - Bregalad)
Ventriloquism (x1 - Lanny)
Hold Person (x1 - Marodin)

And, of course, we have an invisible scout at our disposal, too.

I count 16 enemies:

2 gate guards
12 warriors in training
2 drill instructors / leaders (probably the highest value targets)

Sleep will likely need to be used here, but we learned from the last battle that if we don't get them all, then those put to sleep will quickly be awakened...

The outer walls immediately surround the castle on all sides except the front side (to allow for the courtyard).

Anyone want to take a shot at proposing a plan?

[frobozz]

Lanny the elf

While Saul is being turned invisible, Lanny holds on to a small object of Saul's choice (perhaps Saul's mirror) so that it will not be made invisible, but can still be concealed on Saul's person, perhaps in a pocket.

Hmmm... I guess I've never understood the mechanics of the invisibility spell to work this way. You are treating it more like HP's cloak of invisibility, or perhaps an elven cloak, where lifting up the cloak would reveal objects underneath that are not invisible. I always thought of it as the person and everything they have is turned invisible, even the insides of their pockets. They could take off the shirt they were wearing at the time the spell was cast, and their bare chest would be invisible; you wouldn't see some grotesque partial torso floating in the middle of the room. With that understood, if you give them something to hold, that entire object is visible, even where they are grasping it with their hands. So if they pick up a non-invisible object, they don't really have any way of hiding it by cupping it in their hands or tucking it into a pocket or putting it under their invisible cloak. If they grasp a candlestick around the stem, you still see the whole candlestick, not just the candle and the very top and very bottom of the candlestick. I figure its the same way if they try and tuck a visible object into their pocket. You'd still see the object.

That's a good point, Al, I never thought of that but you might be right. I just figured that an object (such as a mirror) would be hidden from view if it were tucked inside a person's pocket, regardless of whether the person was turned invisible or not. That was my logic, anyway. TK, what do you think about this?

[thirdkingdom]

Oh, I don't know, and frankly need to think about this a bit. I've always, for that matter, preferred the description of invisibility from the diceless Amber RPG, where the more invisible you turn the harder it is for you to see, as more light is passing through your body (as opposed to entering your eyes). So, it is only ever practical to become dim, as opposed to truly invisible.

Anyway, seems like this is a pretty slow weekend for everybody, but I would like to move on within 24 hours of this post, whether we hear from Luis or not.

[Bouv]

Tratiln is very ineffetive at long range, with only a sleep and magic missile spell. I think it would be best if we target the leaders with missile weapons (or an invisible backstab? Though that would put Saul in jeopardy afterwards with no daily doubles left). But if the leaders are taken down, there is a good chance the trainees might have to make a morale check or run.

[Alethan]

Night time assault? Anyone with night vision, we can try to get in through the hole in the wall. Sleep might be best used against guards at the main gate, then that clears the way for those without night vision to enter there.

Lets also not forget our invisible scout also has his "night vision goggles" that are good for... What is it? An hour? Would be enough time for him to continue scouting out the inside of the courtyard in the dark in preparation of the attack.

Ummm... That's all I have at the moment.

Oh, how about Hold Person against the ugly dude in plate mail, if we come across him?

[sulldawga]

Oil, torch, repeat until toasty.

Slightly more seriously, can we get our ranged attackers up on the wall? And then have the invisible guy pour some oil at the main entrance. Take some pot shots at the group, lure them into a charge on our position. Melee guys engage the gnoll guards on our side of the oil. When the masses arrive, cast Sleep and then toss a few torches into the oil. The sleeping ones fall into the oil and sizzle for a round or two. The ones that don't sleep are still burning. Then we clean up.

[frobozz]

Considerations:

[*]The rest of the party is still 1/2 mile away from the castle. If we approach on horseback, the guards at the gate will likely hear us approaching and notify the others.

[*]These gnolls might actually have taken up residence inside the castle. If they flee due to loss of morale, they might just flee back inside the castle, which might make things more difficult for us. The same might happen if we wait until nightfall - they might simply retire inside the castle.

[*]We should plan on Sleep taking down 2 to 8 gnolls (5 would be the average to expect).

[*]If we do choose to take a prisoner from this battle, I would suggest the ugly humanoid in plate mail. For some reason, he seems to me the most likely to be able to speak Common.

Other Suggestions:

[*]I do like the idea of targeting the leaders with Hold Person. Targets of that spell cannot be "re-awakened" as they can with Sleep, and Hold Person can actually target up to 4 persons, so we could potentially target the two leaders and the two guards at the gate.

[*]Luring some or all of the trainees out of the courtyard and into the open could prove to be an effective strategy. If some of us remain mounted, and the trainees are on foot, they will not be able to catch the mounted riders, and it doesn't sound like they have any missile weapons either.

[*]A select group could move into position on foot to the unguarded hole in the wall and be ready to act in various ways (spells, missile fire, etc.), or to move in if the trainees move out.

[*]We could also try some good old-fashioned trickery to scare off the gnolls. For example, Lanny could cast Ventriloquism on a tiny pebble to give to Saul to drop into that pit sticking out from underneath those massive fallen doors. Lanny would then be able to project his voice from that pebble at the bottom of the pit. Not sure exactly how the gnolls would react to hearing a voice coming up from the ground, but it might be fun to find out, especially if it is combined with some non-combat antics provided by the invisible Saul!

Anyway, it looks like we have until Sunday mid-afternoon EST to put something together, so keep the suggestions and opinions coming!

[Luis]

Sorry, had to take of some stuff yesterday and I was too tired to post when I got back.

Oh, this looks like it's gonna be fun

[thirdkingdom]

Sorry, had to take of some stuff yesterday and I was too tired to post when I got back.

Oh, this looks like it's gonna be fun

Yeah, so let me know what Saul is going to do at this point.

[Luis]

Well, my idea, at this point, is to do my job and find out everything I can about the castle so I can relay to the rest of the party.

If, and it's a mighty big if, I find a way of taking out a large part of the security or set up any traps that might help in taking over the place without rendering me visible or forcing the party to be shut out from the castle I'm going to take my chance.

Next time I'm flat out buying poison, it would be a great help if I could poison the well but, as it stands, unless I find any of it inside or enough booze to spike the well (which would mean carrying it through the opening and that just wouldn't work) I guess the best I could do is defile the well myself (assuming that would even work) but I'd rather do that in case I messed up and they close the castle. I imagine it would create a siege situation where they'd die off from thirst while I could just climb down the walls still invisible or under cover from the night.

In regards to traps, considering my gear I imagine I could set up some rope near the top of staircases so that anyone coming up or going down would trip, arrows could be affixed to doorways, chairs, etc. and if I find anyone speaking any of my languages I could try tricking them into believing in ghosts or just setting up a scenario where they believe they are being mocked by the others. Anything from minor pranks to keep everyone on edge to straight up saw-like far fetched traps, from my understanding, as long as I don't actively attack anyone my invisibility should be safe and, if need be I can hide in shadows. I imagine I could do a lot of damage at night, which reminds me, I'll be looking out for and hiding any torches so they can't be lit. At the very least that should be enough to be annoying but not raise any alarms, maybe I could put them in someone's quarters and see what chaos ensues.

BTW. I'm taking my oils flasks with me on this one, they might prove useful and I'd like to keep an eye out for any murderholes on the walls and try to plug them.

I'm checking out what happens with some regularity and I have tomorrow off so this will probably be quick and the others won't wait long.

For what it's worth I don't mind having most stuff acted out quickly based on my ideas considering others are waiting.

[frobozz]

Luis, just to clarify something - the rest of the party is still 1/2 mile away, waiting for the report from Saul. We have no idea where he is, and we have no idea what is in the courtyard unless Saul returns to tell us. All of our OOC planning is based on the assumption that Saul returns to the group to report the information. Otherwise, we really cannot make plans based on that information.

Also to clarify, Lanny provided Saul the mirror as an emergency tool in case Saul found himself in a position where he was trapped and could not return to the group. At this point, if Saul is detected, at best the party will lose the element of surprise, at worst Saul will be dead with nothing that any of the rest of us can do about it (we are 1/2 mile away, so it would take us about 1/2 hour to get to you).

As you stated in your post, the most important task for invisible Saul is to relay to the group an up-close-and-personal description of the interior coutyard (including the exact numbers and positions of the enemies), so that the group can then make a sensible plan and keep the element of surprise in its favor. The group certainly doesn't expect Saul to put himself in danger by doing anything beyond that (although we can't really stop you if you choose to take other actions).

@All: TK requested a plan of action by Sunday mid-afternoon, so I will volunteer to put something together in the next couple of hours (it will be based largely on whether or not Saul returns to report back to the group).

[Luis]

Oh, don't worry, I'm well aware of all that. Saul just wants to go the extra mile if at all possible. That's not to say I'll actually let him go through with all of his plans.

[thirdkingdom]

My statement earlier might not have been clear. My intent was that if we didn't hear from Luis by this afternoon I was going to move things along anyway. Again, I really dislike you guys taking actions that hinge upon one person's response. I am going to request, rather forcefully, that if such a thing occurs I am going to expect the one individual to be pretty diligent about responding to wrap things up quickly. In other words, don't volunteer for a solo scouting mission, or to be the one talking to the king or whatever, if you know you will be unable to post within a 24-hour period.

In instances such as these I will break my "no DMing PCs policy" after a reasonable time in order to keep things moving.

[Innana]

Innana the fighter:

Leaning on a tree Innana is eating a celery stick watching the ruined castle for any sign that Saul sends their way. "Do you see anything Lanny?"

[frobozz]

With the new bit of information about the rudimentary gnoll campsite within the courtyard, we can probably assume the gnolls are sleeping outside, rather than inside the castle proper. So Alethan's suggestion about a night assault could be pretty effective. Although, we don't necessarily HAVE TO wait until nightfall... we could attack when they have stopped their drills and put down their weapons to eat and rest. In the meantime, we probably shouldn't be standing around in open grassland with no cover. Who knows, the gnolls may decide to come out of the courtyard after completing their drills, and then we will be spotted. My suggestion would be to keep our 1/2 mile distance and arc to the left all the way to the shores of the lake, and then move closer to the castle on foot, behind the cover of the western wall, all the way up to the hole in the western wall.

Again, this plan (or any other plan) hinges on receiving the intelligence report from Saul.

[Luis]

Excuse me?

If I had known I wouldn't have the time to post for a day no, I wouldn't have volunteered. I have made it clear that, while unemployed, I still lead a relatively active life, defined at the very least, by trying to get another job and taking all sorts of classes to improve myself. In the duration of this pbp I've had German, Spanish and guitar classes (last one still ongoing) and right now I'm taking a course (as TK well knows as he's been informed) to become a professional IT tech. These are things that, on occasion, leave me with little time to post as I take them seriously and yet I'm one of the most active members in this group as I've made an effort to post as often as I can (even if that forces me to post from a crappy cellphone because there just isn't another option) and to flat out announce when I won't be able to post (as I've done in the past when I could anticipate that situation).

If I have to spell out that I'm approaching the damned hole before I actually try to get inside and get snappy remarks then we have a problem especially since I can't tell you apart from a text adventure parser. Enter castle>look>go North>look hole>enter hole. Whoops, wrong sintax *insert snide remark that I don't post often enough or have enough detail* I thought the whole point of a pnp RPG was that the DM was supposed to advance the story instead of stalling the bloody thing by nitpicking such a simple request.

I wanted to go in the hole. Who cares if I approach it? Of course I do, last time I checked my character doesn't exactly teleport and I expect you to tell me of any dangers if I got near it. Not like I'm asking for a constant search for traps without even stating it and not like a character being played as slightly out there would bother to do so every single time.

I've enjoyed the story and the twists but I don't care for a DM that can't figure out what his characters are doing unless it's spelled out for him. Lanny can take over Saul and divide his wealth. I'd have him commit suicide by attacking a guard but the rest of the players here don't deserve to be left without a thief nor have their current plans messed up because I'm tired of your attitude.

Do not PM me, TK.

The rest of you, have a good game and maybe we'll see each other sometime. It's been a pleasure playing with you and I've enjoyed your characters.

[frobozz]

Luis:

I really enjoyed Saul's character and his unique relationship with Lanny in this game. I really did. You (and Saul) have a unique sense of humor that I always enjoyed.

However, your comments about TK are completely unfair. DMs need specific information about player actions and intentions... ESPECIALLY in a PbP game. TK has asked for this from the beginning. Nothing has changed.

Guys, I hope we can get back to the game and move forward soon.

[thirdkingdom]

Look, I don't really want to pile up on anyone, but I think this is a good point to make:

Saul decides consider his choices. He could try pitting the guards against each other but he doesn't know if the creatures even speak anything a human would speak. He could also start booby trapping the yard. He has his rope on him and trippin on that onto a bed of invisible arrows might prove fatal, he might do that on at entrance to the castle and, after exploring, make a fuss so they would start checking out what's happening and ambush the survivors.

After careful consideration he decides he'll just sneak through the opening and leave any mischief for when his job is done.

"No point in killing a few guards if I get locked inside with no chance of being rescued by the others," he mutters to himself "especially if I can't find anything else because everything is under tight watch."

This is the kind of post I have been asking you guys not to make since play began. The bulk of it really tells me nothing. I have bolded the only bit that describes an intention, but even that is fairly vague and does not specify 1)which opening or b)exactly what the ultimate intent is. I have tried to make this extremely clear from the beginning and have reiterated it over and over: I would much rather prefer concise intentions over role-playing fluff.

I put a lot of effort into this game, and for the most part it is a lot of fun. However, when I have to constantly divine intentions from unclear posts it begins to feel too much like work and not so much fun.

So, let us proceed.