OOC I: The Sunless Citadel

[dmw71]

NPC me Dave if you need to.

Will do.

We'll let Sky or Klilxuac or Hargrem make a decision here.

[Shaede]

NPC me Dave if you need to.

Will do.

We'll let Sky or Klilxuac or Hargrem make a decision here.

Looks like we'll need all the firepower we can muster

[Scott308]

Did someone say FIREpower? Good thing we have a fire-breathing dragon in the party!

[dmw71]

Sorry for the delay, all. I've been tasked with a new project which is really dominating my free time, and will almost certainly have an affect on my availability.

I will continue to update my games as best I can, but please forgive a hopefully slight slowdown in my activity.

[Monsieur Rose]

No worries. We'll be here.

[dmw71]

Oh, I'll do my best to keep up with this game -- but, there is a chance I may miss a day or two, here or there.

You guys are in an interesting spot, and things are getting exciting, so I look forward to keeping you guys moving.

[dmw71]

Initiative: [1d20+2] = 20+2 = 22

Fire Breath (Dex save for half DC 11) Damage: [2d6] = 5
I don't know if I can hit all four, but I think I can get three of them.

Intimidation: [1d20+3] = 4+3 = 7
Meanwhile, the goblins are thinking, "Wook at the cute widdle dwagon!"

Hmmm... I'm asking here, because I'm really not sure (and I don't see it as an option in the 'Actions in Combat' section), but is using a skill (e.g. intimidation) an action?

I'm actually really glad this came up, because I'm genuinely curious, and also because this is the type of situation where, at a table with a live game, I'd be sweating as a DM because it seems like an obvious question, and should be simple enough... but is it?


(P.S. Does intimidation grant any defined mechanical advantage, or is it just up to the DM to decide what would happen?)

[GreyWolfVT]

it makes the goblins flee and crap themselves (possibly) well the flee in terror or cower in fear would be a good deal.

[dmw71]

Hmmm... I'm asking here, because I'm really not sure (and I don't see it as an option in the 'Actions in Combat' section), but is using a skill (e.g. intimidation) an action?

Oh, it seems like, at least in this case, using intimidation would require an action, under the 'Improvising an Action' section beneath the Use an Object details:

Your character can do things not covered by the actions in this chapter, such as breaking down doors, intimidating enemies, sensing weaknesses in magical defenses, or calling for a parley with a foe. The only limits to the actions you can attempt are your imagination and your character’s ability scores. See the descriptions of the ability scores in chapter 7 for inspiration as you improvise.

When you describe an action not detailed elsewhere in the rules, the DM tells you whether that action is possible and what kind of roll you need to make, if any, to determine success or failure.

[dmw71]

Oh, it seems like, at least in this case, using intimidation would require an action...

Maybe the most simple way to rule this would be: If it requires a die roll, it's an action.


Anyone else have thoughts on this? Scott?

[Scott308]

Reading the description for Intimidation in the PHB, it seems that you would need to put a little more effort into the attempt than Klilxuac did, so that would probably require an action. Maybe that is why he was so ineffective! Although, a very strong character could probably intimidate a very weak enemy with little effort. Maybe put a negative modifier or impose disadvantage for making such a half-hearted attempt at intimidation if the character is only going to use a free action to speak without really trying to "sell it." That would still allow a clearly overwhelming opponent a chance to intimidate by just saying , "Boo!"

There are definitely times I've rolled to do things that did not require an action. Using Arcana or Religion to try and recall or recognize something. Dex, Athletics or Acrobatics checks to travel over slippery terrain, jump a gap or other movement related checks that happen as part of your move action. Stealth checks to remain hidden or sneak up on someone- again, part of the move action, but much different than taking the Hide action on your turn. Otherwise, it would be impossible to sneak up on someone and attack and get sneak attack bonus. Perception checks during combat to see if you see something unusual about an enemy or hear the noise made by approaching enemy reinforcements. A case could be made for passive perception for this, but I have seen DMs call for a roll in this situation.

[dmw71]

Reading the description for Intimidation in the PHB, it seems that you would need to put a little more effort into the attempt than Klilxuac did, so that would probably require an action.

That was my initial thought as well (and what prompted my digging into this 'skills as an action' rabbit hole.

Maybe put a negative modifier or impose disadvantage for making such a half-hearted attempt at intimidation if the character is only going to use a free action to speak without really trying to "sell it." That would still allow a clearly overwhelming opponent a chance to intimidate by just saying , "Boo!"

I would probably impose disadvantage on a half-hearted attempt that was used as a free action instead of a full action. (For as much as I like the advantage/disadvantage system (I do!), I really haven't used it very often.)

There are definitely times I've rolled to do things that did not require an action. Using Arcana or Religion to try and recall or recognize something. Dex, Athletics or Acrobatics checks to travel over slippery terrain, jump a gap or other movement related checks that happen as part of your move action. Stealth checks to remain hidden or sneak up on someone- again, part of the move action, but much different than taking the Hide action on your turn. Otherwise, it would be impossible to sneak up on someone and attack and get sneak attack bonus. Perception checks during combat to see if you see something unusual about an enemy or hear the noise made by approaching enemy reinforcements. A case could be made for passive perception for this, but I have seen DMs call for a roll in this situation.

Very good points on this. Clearly I didn't think through the "if a roll is required" option.

Bottom line, it seems there will be occasions when a skill can be used freely, but also times when a skill will require an action. I'm starting to think it will really boil down to a case-by-case determination.

[Scott308]

It pretty much comes down to how the skill is used. If it is something that would require time and energy to do, like breaking into a Polynesian Haka or pretending to be mad in an attempt to intimidate someone, then it would require an action. If I am trying to jump farther than I normally can based on my strength ability, it will require a roll but is part of my movement action. Since Klilxuac didn't invest much effort into intimidating the goblins, pretty much just relying on big, scary looking, fire-breathing dragonman on its own to be intimidating, it makes sense that it may not succeed, and since I rolled a 7 and there are no penalties for rolling a 1, I don't see any reason to worry about rolling a disadvantage die, unless that would actually succeed, but I'm assuming the goblins are made of sterner stuff.

A lot of the time, something will require an action. Say I want to make an Arcana check to recognize some magical effect. I may be able to recall having seen or read about something in the past, so a successful roll wouldn't require an action. If I have a book on the subject that I want to flip through, it would require an action to skim the book and a successful roll to find the relevant info. A failure means I couldn't locate the right spot in the book. The failure may or may not mean the book doesn't have the info, maybe I just couldn't find it in the few seconds of chaos I spent looking. (Try looking for something in the AD&D 1e DMG really quickly while you have people yelling at you and you'll see how hard it can be to find something even when you know it is in the book. Hell, try finding something quickly in that book without anyone yelling at you. It's still difficult. )

[dmw71]

(Try looking for something in the AD&D 1e DMG really quickly while you have people yelling at you and you'll see how hard it can be to find something even when you know it is in the book. Hell, try finding something quickly in that book without anyone yelling at you. It's still difficult.)

Lol
No kidding!

P.S. This current combat is crazy involved, and taking a LONG time to resolve... but it is so worth it!

[Monsieur Rose]

Sky

The sleep alteration is fine. Nice rolling on the enemy initiative, btw.
A question. How are we going to play Cutting Words? I know we talked about it, but this is the first practical use. Could I, for instance, spend a use of Cutting Words (as a reaction) to distract Durnn from hitting Hargrem? If so, then I would do so.
Cutting Words: [1d6] = 5

I'll post actions after this is cleared up.

[dmw71]

The sleep alteration is fine. Nice rolling on the enemy initiative, btw.

I was thinking the same thing last night, and I'm just glad those where rolls for initiative, and not attack rolls!

A question. How are we going to play Cutting Words? I know we talked about it, but this is the first practical use. Could I, for instance, spend a use of Cutting Words (as a reaction) to distract Durnn from hitting Hargrem? If so, then I would do so.

Regarding 'cutting words,' I am okay with you have the advantage of seeing the actual roll result against the actual target number.

In this specific instance, because the attack roll was exactly the number needed, any reduction will reverse the outcome. Not every decision will be as obvious (I don't think).

So, again, yes, I will allow you to pick and choose after the fact when you want to use that ability... which, it looks like you did, so I will update the last action post to reflect your usage and reverse that outcome.

[dmw71]

How are we going to play Cutting Words?

Awesome use, by the way. It's fun to see all these abilities that I haven't really seen before get used -- and used effectively.

[dmw71]

FYI...

My mother, who's not in the best of health to begin with, took a fall while in vacation in Disney World yesterday and has bleeding in her brain. A situation complicated, I guess, by the fact that she takes blood thinners.

My youngest brother is there with her, and has been providing me updates. If I wasn't so busy at work (and also backing up a co-worker all week), I'd almost certainly fly out to be there myself... and still may.

I will attempt to get caught up on all of my games, but may need a few days to sort through things going on.

[GreyWolfVT]

I said this in your 2e game but it still applies here Dave.

I agree with Kester (storm11) take your time Dave. RL and Family take priority of us we will still be here when you are able to get back to us. Take care of your mother dude.

[Monsieur Rose]

Sorry to hear that Dave.
Hope things get better.