Abandoned Games! Where's the Love?

[rredmond]

ToniXX isn’t a fan of the public admonishment thing. Especially since 99.9% of our membership is just so darn supportive of each other and just come here willing to play and be a part of out PbP community. The closest thing we get is the Abandoned Games section below. And honestly, IIRC, there’s one or two DMs that put themselves in that section.

I’m glad we’re discussing this, because any way to make the board better is a good thing. And threads like this (especially membership led) make the board better by coming up with great ideas for the Admin/Mod team and just by their very existence. Another great reason to enjoy Unseen Servant!

[thirdkingdom]

ToniXX isn’t a fan of the public admonishment thing. Especially since 99.9% of our membership is just so darn supportive of each other and just come here willing to play and be a part of out PbP community. The closest thing we get is the Abandoned Games section below. And honestly, IIRC, there’s one or two DMs that put themselves in that section.

I’m glad we’re discussing this, because any way to make the board better is a good thing. And threads like this (especially membership led) make the board better by coming up with great ideas for the Admin/Mod team and just by their very existence. Another great reason to enjoy Unseen Servant!

That's fair. I like it because it helps to impart some civility by acknowledging that sometimes people lose interest/time/etc. in a game and can't continue, but that the polite thing to do is to just send a quick "hey, I've got to drop out, good luck!" as opposed to just ghosting. But I get not wanting to do it.

[Inferno]

So anyway, no solutions here, just relating my experience.

Great stuff. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Bluetongue]

Sadly another game I was involved in has halted with the DM citing slow posts, motivation and lack of investment.

It is frustrating I am sure to committed players when games fold as well as super creative GM's when players drop out or opt out for any number of RL. I was quoted in an above post and while those exasperation remain I would like to express my thanks and appreciations to all those GM's who took a step of faith (maybe a step too far) and launched games in all good faith of providing a creative and challenging rpg environment for players to enjoy.

I feel a challenge that if my days as a player are being shortened I could, should test my mettle and run a D&D module myself but I fear lack of time and professional skill rather than creative genius and simple scene settings would hamper my vain attempts.

I might trawl the Tips for DM's. I wonder if there are archived or abandoned games that you guys as players really appreciated. That you would be able to recommend 'this style of game had lots of challenges, characterisation, was fun to play, had great scenario and story themes, etc' just so I can get some extra inspiration on what works and what hurdles might be out there for prospective GM's.

[Leitz]

My biggest recommendation would be to run something you enjoy, talk to the players a lot, and pick a short project with a set end date/goal.

For example, pick the level of play you want to run, and then the game mechanics you like. Write up three "random" encounters, each one more difficult than the last. Do a one page "place to explore"; it could be a dungeon, a star ship wreck, or a wilderness site.

Spend some time building your logic and descriptions. How do the random encounters prepare players for the exploration? How do you describe everything to evoke the feel you want? Description in a Cthulhu game is much different than in a Traveller Merchant game, or a Wild West Whatever game.

Help players build the characters they want, and be up front that this is a short duration one-shot. You can always continue on, but you really want to reach the end. That's when you can get good feedback from the players, and maybe start to plan your next game. That's when you can sit back with a beverage of choice, take a quiet moment, and reflect on how *you* felt about the game. Feedback and introspection are powerful tools.

[rredmond]

I like following Leitz’s posts. There’s great info there and in this thread Bluehorse.
I think I’ve said it before but be open with your expectations as a DM - for both you and your players. Timing you should be real specific about (who posts when and how often) but the rest is up to you. Some DMs have a bunch of uber-organized threads, while others have less organized and fewer threads. We run the gamut here in Unseen Servant so definitely check out what other DMs are doing.

Also I wanted to add, because I know there are DMs that enjoy the sandbox and enjoy making stuff up on the fly or creating grand campaigns. But your idea about checking other fun games that folks have run here is sound - and using published material is a great way to jump into DMing here. I love published modules and find myself being extremely creative inside that structure (I think being a child therapist probably plays in here ). Even boxed text, which a lot of experienced DMs scorn, becomes a whole other thing in PbP. Especially if you are dipping your toes in with just doing a one-shot then you don’t feel too tied into that “this is going to take forever!“ feeling. Even though some PMs with Inferno remind me of that Zager & Evans song, he is always planning for the long haul - “we’d get to Barrier Peaks in the year 2525!”

You might want to PM some DMs that you want to get advice from too. I’ve done that in the past, heck I do that now for my Skype game. I think folks, at least the ones here, would be cool about signing up for a game that was quick, to help the DM.

[rredmond]

Oh. And my published module campaign (for the Skype game with my friends from HS) is all 1e and has gone from The Illhiedrin Book, to The Pod Caverns of the Sinister Shroom, to (currently) The House on Hangman’s Hill. Pretty sure Slave Pits of the Undercity is next, I wanted to fit in Jim Kramer’s excellent Arachnophobia! but not sure how that will work, they are more psyched about the classic D&D monsters at this point. But Ghost Tower, White Plume Mountain, Barrier Peaks and The Hill Giant Steading are all in the lineup for sure. Gonna be fun!!

But I’ve created a whole campaign around the PCs they’ve made with the modules they’ve gone through - forgot how much fun the Illhiedrin Book is, and the campaign started with that as a base with the High Priest of Bastiken and the Wizardess Alcastra as their benefactors. It’s been tons of fun.

[Inferno]

Even though some PMs with Inferno remind me of that Zager & Evans song, he is always planning for the long haul - we’d get to Barrier Peaks in the year 2525!

Oh. And my published module campaign (for the Skype game with my friends from HS) is all 1e and has gone from The Illhiedrin Book, to The Pod Caverns of the Sinister Shroom, to (currently) The House on Hangman’s Hill. Pretty sure Slave Pits of the Undercity is next, I wanted to fit in Jim Kramer’s excellent Arachnophobia! but not sure how that will work, they are more psyched about the classic D&D monsters at this point. But Ghost Tower, White Plume Mountain, Barrier Peaks and The Hill Giant Steading are all in the lineup for sure. Gonna be fun!!

Kettle, meet pot.

[rredmond]

Now I’m thinking of a Beastie Boys song — “BUSTED”
Glad I didn’t write about the various modules I’m looking at to fill in any gaps!

[Inferno]

[Inferno]

... just so I can get some extra inspiration on what works and what hurdles might be out there for prospective GM's.

The big hurdles are around focus, energy and attention span.

Mark Twain said, "Run what you know... and love."
And Fred Allen said, "A PbP campaign is a treadmill to oblivion."

Anyway, I think that's what they said.

DMing PbP is lots of work across a long period of time. It's a creative marathon, not a sprint. It's very easy to begin but hard to maintain. Hence so many DMs starting up and dumping out so quick.

If you can't remain self-motivated, enthused and passionate with a game for years on end, no player will.
But if you can, you'll have a pretty good time. And hopefully your players will too.

Good luck!

[Inferno]

The chaos of this year has certainly taken its toll on games.

Players sign up, a number vaporize after 1-4 initial posts (which is pretty typical unless you've handpicked your crew), then general interest trickles due to the stop-&-start until I'm running the game for but a single player or two.

This is really insightful. Even in the best of times, PbP games shed players over time as they leave the US boards. Some solutions for DMs might be:

• Start with more players than you need, anticipating these departures. (something I've actually had luck with)

• Run shorter adventures that can reach the end before the departures pile up. (something I just can't manage to do )

[Starbeard]

• Start with more players than you need, anticipating these departures. (something I've actually had luck with)

• Run shorter adventures that can reach the end before the departures pile up. (something I just can't manage to do )

This is insightful, I think, especially in regards to running shorter adventures. Before now, I've never done more than guess at adventure length when running a PBP, and each one has stretched on longer than anticipated. For example, take something like B1 In Search of the Unknown: let's say you put some narrative trappings on it, cut the dungeon size in half, and key about 15 possible encounters, to create a small dungeon adventure. Now let's assume that you run a very briskly paced game, mechanically, with an average turn rate of of 4 rounds per combat and 4 game turns between combats; also assume that, on average, the game moves forward in real time at 1 game turn/combat round per week. That's still over two years to finish your adventure!

If you want to complete your adventure in 6 months, then a 1-turn-per-week game would need to have about 3-5 encounters; increase your post rate to 2 turns processed per week (not just posting twice a week, but moving the game forward twice a week), then you might be able to fit in 6-10 encounters. In other words, the most secure way to run PBP adventures is to break your game up into small "Five Room Dungeon" style affairs. Anything greater in scope threatens to become endless.

I will also add that a strict schedule of processing turns is also key. I really admire Inferno's ability to set a game turn schedule for his games, and on the clock, rain or shine, player input or no, the game ticks forward on those days.

[Inferno]

Thanks for the thoughtful breakdown on game length. Now I feel better about my inability to run a short adventure.

I really admire Inferno's ability to set a game turn schedule for his games, and on the clock, rain or shine, player input or no, the game ticks forward on those days.

Well, thanks. I appreciate this feedback because sometimes I do wonder about the "player input or no" part, especially with the pandemic chaos. I believe the DM has to keep momentum going or the game will stagnate and die. But I wonder if being steamrolled a few times is enough to make a player drop, which isn't what I want. Or maybe the tardy player is secretly relieved that they weren't unintentionally holding up the whole game.

[Norjax]

But I wonder if being steamrolled a few times is enough to make a player drop, which isn't what I want. Or maybe the tardy player is secretly relieved that they weren't unintentionally holding up the whole game.

My thoughts as well.

[Bluetongue]

I think another key characteristic of games which fold through drop out is the amount of time it takes a group of players to make a decision. A simple dungeon crawl dilemna of 'you come to a T-junction at the end of the corridor' which way do you go? Can take weeks to resolve.

If players can agree to a course of successive actions at least it can give DM's something to work with even if events interrupt the PC plan.

Another personal bugbear is joining games with a number of players who subsequently leave (some even cite very good Real life reasons) only for them to post in the next LfP forum to join an identical game.

And players who post comments but not actions. So player x scripts in the above "ABC brings up the rear' another writes "I agree, those orcs we killed are terrible" just add to effective real world downtime and frustration for GM's.

I think a key thing is 'player investment'. What does the DM and the PC's see for their characters. There should be enough hooks to keep players interested and challenged and players should roleplay to make a difference in the world they are adventuring in.

A few thoughts anyway.

[Inferno]

My thoughts as well.

Yeah. So ultimately it came down to: Who do I please? The folks honoring their commitment to the game's rate of posting, or those that are unable to?

Neither option is perfect. But this approach lets the people that want to play, play. Otherwise I'm afraid it's the regular posters who will drop, frustrated that the game is constantly stalling.

Bluetongue, in your T-junction example, I just proceed with the will of the majority. Because you're right. Building consensus bogs things down.

[Starbeard]

As someone who has been steamrolled a couple of times, I do appreciate the set schedule. If I make a mistake in assuming that I can wait to post on Tuesday, only to find myself swamped on Tuesday and unable to think about games until Friday, I don't want to be the guy who stalls the game.

And honestly, I think it also helps with regulating the overactive players, which can come with its own different problems. If some of the players are posting lengthy roleplayed asides three or four times as often as everyone else, the others can feel steamrolled that way, and fade out. Setting the expectation that the game will always move forward every so many days bounds player activity to a balanced post rate within the group, where you can expect that any given post will have a game decision in it.

[Rex]

I agree with Starbeard on this. Its nice to know the schedule and that is the pace, its one less thing I need to keep track of as a player and since I play in lots of games every little bit helps.

[tibbius]

And honestly, I think it also helps with regulating the overactive players, which can come with its own different problems. If some of the players are posting lengthy roleplayed asides three or four times as often as everyone else, the others can feel steamrolled that way, and fade out. Setting the expectation that the game will always move forward every so many days bounds player activity to a balanced post rate within the group, where you can expect that any given post will have a game decision in it.

This is a good point. Very assertive / verbose posters can be fun to read. They also can drive out the quieter ones who can feel overwhelmed by the volume of text or possibly feel like they are overmatched in some way.

Some keys for a successful play by post are getting a group of players who match fairly well in (a) verbosity and (b) frequency as well as (c) assertiveness. Hard to screen for that in a LfP.