Game Death

[Inferno]

Hi,

Grim Reaper here. Just checking in.

Currently, on the front page, I count 14 dead pbp campaigns; about 25% of total games shown.
Of the newer half of games on the front page, the mortality rate is almost 45%!
I'm still pretty newbish, so I wonder:

• Is this typical?
  
  What are the leading causes of a game dying, in your estimation?
  
  What actions can be taken to reduce the game mortality rate?
  
  And are there any ways to tell that the new character you're lovingly creating will find himself in a dead game in two months?

Thanks.

[Argennian]

Hi,

Grim Reaper here. Just checking in.

Currently, on the front page, I count 14 dead pbp campaigns; about 25% of total games shown.
Of the newer half of games on the front page, the mortality rate is almost 45%!

Funny enough, we've actually already addressed this, or to be fair our most prolific first officer Big Al has, and recently sent notices out to their respective DM/GMs for advisement that their games will be archived/put on the abandoned list if they don't see some action soon!

I'm still pretty newbish, so I wonder:

• Is this typical?

Sadly, yes.

What are the leading causes of a game dying, in your estimation?

RL stuff comes up and/or the DM and/or players lose interest.

What actions can be taken to reduce the game mortality rate?

Well, if the DM runs a game that is fun and entertaining and has players that are vested in their characters and the game, it will usually stay alive. There's also the posting rate to consider. If a player doesn't post consistently, then the DM can either npc them or get a replacement. If the DM doesn't post consistently, then the players lose interest and go somewhere else. Isn't always the case, but is most of the time. Ymmv, of course.

And are there any ways to tell that the new character you're lovingly creating will find himself in a dead game in two months? [/list]

Sadly, no.

Thanks.

You're welcome! Game on!!

[GreyWolfVT]

Well from what I can tell of the games I am in that died it was due to the DM just kinda falling off the face of this site for months on end and not yet coming back. Yes I've seen it before but not on this large a scale. We kinda have At least 3 to 4 DM's that appear to have just kinda vanished from here and they had multiple games running.

[Alethan]

Unfortunately, Game Death happens more often than we ("we" being site moderators and admin) would like. This is especially true when a GM just drops off the forum and doesn't ever provide any reason for not continuing the game. This gives a negative reputation to the forum; obviously we don't like that.

We fully understand that RL can sometimes get in the way of our Gaming Life and that RL, unfortunately, takes priority. But when that happens, we expect the GM to relay a certain amount of information to the players indicating that the game is not going to continue or will take an extended hiatus or whatever the GM decides to do with the game.

We try to mitigate game death as best we can, giving GMs a chance to continue their game, before we move it to the Abandoned Games folder. In some cases, a new GM (usually one of the players) has been able to take over running the game and kept it going. But when it can't be saved, we at least ask the GM to properly communicate this with the players. That doesn't always happen, so we keep track of GMs who abandon games and take that into consideration if/when that GM requests another campaign folder.

If a game was ended abruptly, but the GM had good communication of intentions with the players, we wouldn't hold it against them and do not consider that to be an abandoned game. So, if you have to stop running a game, for whatever reason, as long as you don't just leave the players hanging, it isn't a problem.

If a GM has too many instances of abandoned games, they will need to provide assurance (in whatever way they think will convince us) that they won't abandon another game if we let them start another one up. I believe we've had to deny one or two GMs who wanted to start another game after abandoning several in the past, so we aren't afraid to take that course of action when necessary.

I have some ideas as to what GMs can do to prevent game death, but I'd like to see some suggestions from experienced GMs on the site before I voice my opinion.

Starting early next week, many of the abandoned games are going to be moved from the live game section to the Abandoned or Archived folders.

[dmw71]

I have some ideas as to what GMs can do to prevent game death, but I'd like to see some suggestions from experienced GMs on the site before I voice my opinion.

Aside from not killing off all your players (sorry, guys!), probably the biggest key to keeping a game running is consistency. I think it's very important to establish the posting frequency for your game, then stick to it! Once the DM and players get into a routine (I think that's key), the likelihood of a game faltering, I would imagine, decreases significantly.

[OGRE MAGE]

I agree with Dave on consistency being a big key.

I'm not exactly a long-timer here but, I feel like I am a fairly active player. I have seen a LOT of games come and go that I have been a part of. I think there is a lot to say about knowing your DM's and the style of games that they offer before you even get involved in character creation. If you don't want to be disappointed by a dead or dying game, you have to be diligent about doing a bit of research into the person running the game.

There is nothing worse than spending a bunch of time and effort creating a new character, only to have the game fizzle right out of the gate, or worse yet, before it even gets to the gate. (this has happened to me twice now)

There are a plethora of great games to pick from here, run by a lot of great and consistent DM's. But, I also see a few active DM's that regularly start games that don't necessarily go their way for whatever reason so, they simply give up on them. Usually, some of the players grumble about it, but for the most part, that is still allowed to go on fairly regularly. My advice would be to do a little research on the person running the game, if they have a bunch of unfinished games in the archives, you might want to stick with someone that you know is going to see the game through to its end. Especially if it's something that you are really excited about.

Also, whenever a new DM comes along and brags about how great their game is going to be, BEWARE!!! If you don't want to deal with the major bummer of fly-by-night DM's and their dead or dying games, stick to a DM that has proven that their games can stand the test of time.

Just my two coppers.

[GreyWolfVT]

I would have to agree with Rob and Dave being that I am one of those DM's I didn't have bad luck in one game but I did in another of my games shockingly the one I expected to have die is still active and the other died but that was a poor choice on my part. I have found if you intend to do any player v player albeit 7 against 1 make sure the players know up front as they may not like that play style. Also yes post consistency, not loosing a bunch of players off the bat would be a key I suppose. Not killing off the whole party, or even a small number of the party shortly after starting. Perhaps not replacing players that just up and vanish as I've come to find players don't take to a character that they themselves did not create and they tend to not give a crap if it dies. Perhaps yes having the players get to know the DM more before joining a game would be of great use. But the same can be said in reverse for DM's to maybe know what to expect from their players too.

[Zhym]

The games I've been involved in that died were all because the DM disappeared. I know there have been some games that died from lack of interest. Although that's an issue, it's not as big of one IMO because it affects fewer people. When a game dies from lack of interest, only a few people are still invested in the game—and they could decide to keep it going if they wanted to (e.g., by adding NPCs, running the game with fewer characters, recruiting new players, etc.). When a DM abandons a game, it often leaves half a dozen or so people hanging.

I'd also distinguish between dead games and games that are either slow or on hold more or less by consent of those involved. For example, Keehnelf's Lair of the Black Druid game hasn't seen an update in a while, but I don't consider it dead. I think we're all cool with the game getting rare updates because his time is limited and most of us are pretty invested in the Vaul game (cue "Take me out to the Vaul game"). Or Rukellian's Rebirth of Power 4G game, which is on hold for the moment while his other game resolves.

In addition to the excellent advice others have given, I'd say to pay attention to the number of games a DM is running. As was mentioned elsewhere, it's really hard to keep even two games going as a DM. A DM's second or third or, in some cases, even fourth game is likely to get less attention and updates.

It's completely understandable when life gets in the way and DMs have to bail. What's frustrating is when they just disappear instead of wrapping things up or at least leaving a note that the game is going to have to go on hold. If a DM would just say something, other people might be willing to pick it up like I did with Bhart's Tomb of Horrors game. Sometimes that's possible, sometimes not. It doesn't really work for sandbox games. It's often possible to change DMs for modules but not always—the Song of Ice and Fire setting for Mangus's Against the Giants game was so integral that I don't know if anyone else could have picked up where he left off.

So the other bit of advice is for DMs: if you're burned out or if life is getting too busy, try to say something instead of just disappearing.

[hedgeknight]

I've had DM's just disappear without a word or warning since I began playing pbp games nearly 15 years ago. I just don't understand it. Surely to God a person can give a two-line blurb explaining RL issues and the game will go on hold or stop. It takes less than the time I've already taken to type this post.
I really despise disappearing DM's and I don't trust them when they pop back in a few months (years) later and cue up another game or two making promises not to bail again. Other players are more forgiving, I guess.

But yeah, the DM is the key to a game surviving or not > he/she must be present and engaged in the game and with the players, and allow the players to interact and have input. Whether the game is a sandbox or a published adventure, the DM either breathes life into the game or drives a nail in the coffin.

[Rukellian]

I can speak from both sides of the fence as well, having been a player who made a character and never saw the game take off, and as a DM who has let a game or two slip for a long time.

Just as the others before me have mentioned, the lack of game updates on the DM's part is mostly accredited to me burning out and my mind being elsewhere. My players, my VERY patient players, have seen an hiatus or two in my games. But I have not given up on them, I plan on seeing the games through to the end, I at least owe that much to my players, both of us having spent considerable time into the stories that have unfolded. I will be the first to admit though, if it helps any, that I have not been following that golden rule of being consistent. Let me explain in hopes that others might be able to see this post and go 'oh yeah, that would make sense'.

When my first game came out some 2-3 years ago it seems, post activity was high, like most other games that start out. Eventually it tapered out to just a few posts a week, then two, and regrettably, one post a week at times. This posting inconsistency is something I am attributing to my having too much on one plate. I bit off more than I can chew, set up a second game on top of my first. Now this was just forum work. Outside of the forums, I also lead a face to face game with other players. As you can imagine this would drain my focus on certain games considerably. But I didn't stop there either. I was also part of many other games on this site as well. The DMs who had me as a player may have seen a drop in my posting rate as well. This posting behavior as a player, and my posting behavior as a DM, I could not help but find a correlation.

I guess what I am trying to get at is that those who run more than one game will more often than not have a hard time staying consistent, unless their DM style is inconsistent to begin with, but then that should raise some red flags if that's the case. The GMs of the Unseen Servant ( viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2417 ) is a great place to check out for all players who are looking to join a certain game or find out more about a DM running a game you are in interested in. If the DM is well known on this site, but you need some info on his play style and habits, this is the place to go to for such information. You can save yourself a lot of time and frustration this way and potentially avoid a game that might die within the next few months of its start.

[onlyme]

I have just assumed that the DMs who disappear without a trace must have accidentally fallen down a 50 foot pit while mishandling Greek Fire during a LARP session.
Either that, or they saw just how awesome my PC build was and knew they could not design or run a game to do it justice.
If there is another reason, I cant think of it.

[Keehnelf]

My problem is I get overly ambitious and forget that just because real life hits a lull in activity doesn't mean it will stay there--so I over commit and then get anxious when obligations I feel like I can't meet pile up, and then I get avoidant and convince myself that I'll post tomorrow morning but that turns into a week and everybody suffers.

I just wish all the things weren't so danged exciting.

[Argennian]

I have just assumed that the DMs who disappear without a trace must have accidentally fallen down a 50 foot pit while mishandling Greek Fire during a LARP session.
Either that, or they saw just how awesome my PC build was and knew they could not design or run a game to do it justice.
If there is another reason, I cant think of it.

This post just made my entire Monday beyond rad.

Cheers & thanks, Dave!!

[Nordbo]

Yeah I was beginning to wonder about this syndrome - having only joined the PbP world last year I didn't have the experience to figure out if it's normal or accepted for DMs to announce grandiose campaigns then blink out of existence.

My own current game looked silent on the surface for a few months, but was run via PM all the time - as the party had split up I had to do it like that, until they were reunited again. To an outsider it probably looked dead in the meantime.

What I've become curious about, what is the general protocol or etiquette here for recycling PCs you've created for games that die just after they started? PCs you've built up a deep background and developed a personality for...is it considered OK to reboot them as PCs in other games, or even have them pop up as NPCs in one's own game ?

[GreyWolfVT]

Yeah I was beginning to wonder about this syndrome - having only joined the PbP world last year I didn't have the experience to figure out if it's normal or accepted for DMs to announce grandiose campaigns then blink out of existence.

My own current game looked silent on the surface for a few months, but was run via PM all the time - as the party had split up I had to do it like that, until they were reunited again. To an outsider it probably looked dead in the meantime.

What I've become curious about, what is the general protocol or etiquette here for recycling PCs you've created for games that die just after they started? PCs you've built up a deep background and developed a personality for...is it considered OK to reboot them as PCs in other games, or even have them pop up as NPCs in one's own game ?

I've done it once or twice on here Nordbo adjusting it to the correct level for the game I revived the character in as well as adjusting to fit the game edition. The DM didn't mind or at least did not say so. So I'd say it depends on the DM of the game you want to bring that character back to life in.

[Alethan]

My own current game looked silent on the surface for a few months, but was run via PM all the time - as the party had split up I had to do it like that, until they were reunited again. To an outsider it probably looked dead in the meantime.

For future reference, ToniXX can help you create subfolders that only you and one player can see. You can use those private sub-folders to create game threads for such hidden actions without having to keep track of a bunch of PMs.

What I've become curious about, what is the general protocol or etiquette here for recycling PCs you've created for games that die just after they started? PCs you've built up a deep background and developed a personality for...is it considered OK to reboot them as PCs in other games, or even have them pop up as NPCs in one's own game ?

There is no protocol or etiquette for this. That would be completely up to the GM running the game you want to port your character into. Some GMs are totally fine with that; others are completely opposed to it. Any established protocol or etiquette would infringe upon the abilities of half of the GMs on the forum to run their game the way they want.

[Dram]

I joined the Unseen Servant last year. In that time I have only completed 2 campaigns. At least 5 campaigns the DM's disappeared. I myself just walked away from one game due to the fact that the DM seemed only interested in interacting with only 1 or 2 characters. We are headed into the winter months. So the post should pick up. I joined to play 1st and 2nd Ed AD&D there has not been any them new games started lately.

[Nordbo]

For future reference, ToniXX can help you create subfolders that only you and one player can see. You can use those private sub-folders to create game threads for such hidden actions without having to keep track of a bunch of PMs.

Great! Thanks for the tip Alethan - I wasn't aware of this feature! It did get a bit confusing once or twice in PM land

[dmw71]

I joined to play 1st and 2nd Ed AD&D there has not been any them new games started lately.

I'd be happy to add you to the waiting list of my 2E game. I just added two new players, and don't have plans on adding anyone else any time soon, but things happen so you never know.

[Inferno]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful, informative replies. This has been really helpful, and interesting.

I have some ideas as to what GMs can do to prevent game death, but I'd like to see some suggestions from experienced GMs on the site before I voice my opinion.

Ok. Out with it, sir!