Our Job Searchers

[Leitz]

This has nothing to do with dice rolling and everything to do with our game family. Several of us are job searching, and it wears down the spirit. If you know of anyone going through this, please reach out to them every now and then. It means a lot, and it can keep us out of dark times. We have no reason to lose a brother or sister.

If you're in the job search now, speak up here or PM me directly.

[BaltoBruiser]

As someone who has found some dark places after losing a job, I just wanted to chime in with whatever support I can provide to those who are searching. Please feel free to DM me.

Bruiser

[OGRE MAGE]

Being a part of this site is so awesome.

[archolewa]

That'd be me! Getting laid off in September. I'm lucky enough that I have several months notice, so my family isn't in crisis mode yet, but it's still been exhausting.

I was lucky enough to get the job I'm getting laid off from right out of college, so this is my first time really doing a "job hunt." It's been...distressing. Lots of shooting resumes off into the void and then absolute silence except for the occasional automated rejection.

It's also really hard to put any sort of effort into a job when they told you they don't want you anymore and you'll be leaving in a few months.

[Scott308]

Best of luck, Archolewa, and anyone else going through this process. I know it can be very difficult to deal with silence or rejection. Just remember that you have worth and are valued by others, even if some stupid HR person fails to see that. There is a job out there for you and somebody will eventually realize what they have when they see your resume. If you ever need to blow off steam or vent, we're here for you.

[Leitz]

That'd be me! Getting laid off in September. I'm lucky enough that I have several months notice, so my family isn't in crisis mode yet, but it's still been exhausting.

I was lucky enough to get the job I'm getting laid off from right out of college, so this is my first time really doing a "job hunt." It's been...distressing. Lots of shooting resumes off into the void and then absolute silence except for the occasional automated rejection.

It's also really hard to put any sort of effort into a job when they told you they don't want you anymore and you'll be leaving in a few months.

I'll offer the things I'm doing, in addition to another list

1. Right now seems to be a bad time to be looking. A recruiter friend tells me they have hundreds of applicants for jobs. I applied for a job where I had everything they were looking for, including a positive history with that contracting company. I could walk in and be productive on Day One, and I got crickets.

2. Serve your current employer with honor; doing less will defeat you.

3. Figure out what you liked and didn't like about your current career, and spend your own time learning stuff for a role you think a better fit and more interesting.

4. Read the "Personal MBA" and write your resume accordingly. You are a business, and your own product. An employer doesn't want someone special, or who might do things. Write your resume to show what you have done for your employer. Market yourself as a valuable business advantage.

I'm happy to answer questions here or in private, whatever works best for you.

[dmw71]

I'll offer the things I'm doing, in addition to another list

Fixed that for you:

10 Job Seeker Tips.png (188.08 KiB) Viewed 915 times

[Rex]

Best of luck archolewa and all those others who are also looking. It seems to be a growing number unfortunately as I know of 3 now on the site. Keep your head up and stay proud of yourself. I am certainly here if anyone just needs to talk or vent.

I am not sure of others background but if any of you have a science degree and are willing to relocate I may be able to at least get you pointed in the right direction. The company I work for has a few US sights and frequent openings for individuals with science degrees.

[dmw71]

I've been in this boat now for 15 months now, and it sucks.

A lot.


I've come dangerously close to landing another job a few times, but the competition is so fierce out there now, it's really (really!) tough. The amount of rejections and outright ghosting I've received over this period is depressingly long.


But, it has affording me the opportunity to really dedicate some time and explore different career opportunities.

Which will present its own set of problems.

---

I'm presently on a good path now, and am extremely motivated, so... we'll see.

My wife has given me a "couple" of months to pursue this latest career path -- web development -- otherwise, I'll undoubtedly be asking people if they want to supersize their meals a thousand times a day.

If even they will hire me.

[Leitz]

Fixed that for you:

Not sure who Greg Covey is, but here's the book in question.

[dmw71]

Not sure who Greg Covey is…

Meet Greg Covey:

IMG_0073.jpeg (350.98 KiB) Viewed 905 times

[Leitz]

Cool? Any relation? The 7 habits book changed my life for the better.

[Leitz]

If you are job searching, you probably need a resume. I'm going to suggest a method that lets you be totally honest and still cheat like crazy.

Start with a blank, no lines, no nothing, piece of paper. At least letter sized, but a little bigger is okay. Draw two circles on it such that part of each circle is on its own, and a part of them overlap. Now, consider all the things you can do, and put them in one of the three covered areas.

- If you like to do it but it's not relevant to your career, list it in one circle.
- If your career needs the skill but you don't like to do it, or can't yet, list it in the other circle.
- If you like to do it AND your career needs it, list it in the overlap area in the middle.

Now you have three lists of skills, and something to do with each of them. Here's my order of action, but it's your life and your decision.

1. Take the list of middle skills, the ones you enjoy that are also career aligned, and put a bullet in your resume that shows how you solved a problem with that skill. Anyone can learn to "Prognosticate a Widget result", but only you have "Saved my company fifty thousand bars of latinum with advanced widget prognistication tools." This list will significantly help in your interview, too. Study the job description with intent, and know that they will ask you about yourself, and your career so far. Use the bullet points that match their job description.

2. With the skills your career needs but you don't like or can't yet do, come up with a plan on how you can get better at each of them. Be creative and have fun. You might get asked about this in your interview, so be ready for it.

3. The last list needs time, contemplation, and maybe a beverage or three. With the things you really like to do, look at your career with a critical eye. Can you meld those things into your career? Maybe even ask yourself if you're in the right career?

[dmw71]

I'm going to suggest a method that lets you be totally honest and still cheat like crazy.

This is a really solid suggesting.

I'm definitely creating a bookmark to this post.

[Leitz]

I'm definitely creating a bookmark to this post.

Glad you like it! For this afternoon's interview, my process is:

Past two days
- study the job description
- read up on job topics I'm not strong on

Today Plan (in progress)
- highlight items in the job description; one color for things I know, one for things I don't
- take breaks to eat food that cheers me up, so that I build energy, joy, and confidence
- drink lots of water between early AM and the interview (helps the brain function better)
- work on a job related skill (programming, in my case) to get my brain on track
- add to this thread (freshest on my mind, and I enjoy helping people)
- review the job's highlighted things I do know and pick the best examples that show my experience
- take breaks for something fun
- review the job's highlighted things I do not know and build an explanation on how I have done similar things, or have been able to learn similar things.
- take a nap
- connect with others (smooch with my wife)
- spend some time outside
- eat at least an hour before the meeting (I always avoid sugar)

Note the order of the last several: I review positives, address challenges, rest, get some sunlight and fresh air, and rebuild my energy reserves. Start and end with positives. Timing this well lets me hit the interview fully prepared. Normally I prefer morning interviews, but none were available. We have to take what we can and do the best we can.

Just before the interview
- brush my teeth (livens the mouth for speaking well)
- restroom break (all that water, you know...)
- change into something business casual (mindset)
- pray
- take calming breaths (tension makes you stumble on words, and I have a speech impediment that makes it a lot worse. Breathing and consciously relaxing help)
- smile when I talk (don't ask me why, but it makes me sound cheerful and nicer)

[Scott308]

Smiling when you speak also shows interest and enthusiasm. Attitude is everything, and if you project an attitude that you don't want to be there, even if you are the most qualified applicant, you won't be there. Projecting a positive attitude won't get you a job all on its own, but a negative attitude on its own can cost you a job.

I have, on occasion, been asked to take part in interviews of potential candidates for managerial positions. I did not have the final say, but I did have to fill out evals with my thoughts on the applicants, which were used by those making the final call.

[Rex]

I do a lot of interviewing and hiring as part of my job. Scott is right about attitude. It won't get you a job but it can cost you one. Showing interest and asking questions are a couple of other interview habits that can make a big difference too.

[Leitz]

I was asked how the interview went, and as far as I can tell, great! Interviewing is a skill, and we should improve our skill as we go through each interview. Here's a recap and some takeaways.

I didn't have one of the major skills on the job description, and one of the interviewers was a senior member in that skill group.
Early on I got the "tell us a little about yourself" question and used that to my advantage. Instead of hiding my lack and having a bunch of questions I couldn't answer, I used the Oreo feedback technique to deal with the issue up front. For those not familiar with Oreo feedback, you sandwich the negative filler you need to talk about between two positives. In this case I began with a quick comment about years of experience in similar technologies, admitted that I hadn't worked in that skill specifically, and then talked about how much self-education I've done over the year. It seemed to work.

I connected with someone prior to the meeting.
In this case my wife. She's the one who reminded me about the Oreo technique, even though we've both done it for years. I was too focused on the interview in my head to relax and try something different. Having to shift gears and get out of my head really helped.

I was myself.
Being yourself lets them connect with you as a person. They may not agree with you, so don't make harsh or argumentative statements. Also, be totally honest. A lot of people can tell if you're lying, and even if they can't explain why they don't believe you, their gut may turn them off. Be honest, be yourself. You can't be anyone else.

I answered the 'what is your greatest weakness' before it was asked.
You'll often get this question, and some people tell you to make it a hidden positive trait. "I work too hard", or "I'm too dedicated." No one believes you, and those answers are weasely. The conversation flowed in that direction, so I answered it and explained what I do to overcome that challenge. No hidden positive, just admitting the issue and showing that I work around it.

I asked my questions.
Okay, I missed a couple that I needed to ask, and I came up with them after the meeting was over. Here are my usual questions:

- "From what we've talked about so far, what areas of my skillset do you feel need the most improvement for this job?"
- - If the list is real long, it may give you a heads up on how they see you as a candidate.
- - For the record, I write these things down and go learn them as soon as they make an offer.

- "Think of the ideal candidate for this role; what is the top character trait that person displays?"
- - This is telling: if you have that trait, or traits, point out why you like that. If you don't, consider how you will build that trait, or even if you're a good fit for the job.

- "What about working here, and on this project, makes you happy to come to work each day?"
- - This is super telling. If coming to work is a drag then you'll underperform and hate yourself and your work. One time I asked that of the four person interview team, and not a single person had an answer. I graciously declined their offer.

[AleBelly]

Glad to hear it went well, Leitz!

A lot of good tips on here.

I do a lot of interviewing and hiring as part of my job. Scott is right about attitude. It won't get you a job but it can cost you one. Showing interest and asking questions are a couple of other interview habits that can make a big difference too.

This is so spot on. I do a good amount of hiring too, and in very technical fields (PhD level scientists and engineers). We usually use phone interviews to assess technical capabilities, and if they are sufficient, we bring them in for an interview. From there it's about personal dynamics and assessing how well they will work in a team. We've passed on people who come from literally the top labs in the world in favor of those that can work well together. Everything is interdisciplinary so the ability to communicate and work well in a team is more important.

[Rex]

Glad to hear it went well, Leitz!

A lot of good tips on here.

I do a lot of interviewing and hiring as part of my job. Scott is right about attitude. It won't get you a job but it can cost you one. Showing interest and asking questions are a couple of other interview habits that can make a big difference too.

This is so spot on. I do a good amount of hiring too, and in very technical fields (PhD level scientists and engineers). We usually use phone interviews to assess technical capabilities, and if they are sufficient, we bring them in for an interview. From there it's about personal dynamics and assessing how well they will work in a team. We've passed on people who come from literally the top labs in the world in favor of those that can work well together. Everything is interdisciplinary so the ability to communicate and work well in a team is more important.

Absolutely. I was told when I started interviewing people 25 years ago that by the time you bring someone in for a face to face interview you should already know if they can do the job skill wise. An interview is all about personality and teamwork. Someone can be technically great, but if they are going to disrupt how a successful team is working no way would I hire them.