Game Death

[Alethan]

One thing another PBP website does is to offer a solo adventure for first time players to get them used to the PBP format. I wonder if it would help to do something similar but for DMs. Have prospective DMs pick a quick, one-shot module to run for a month or two with some experienced players. At the end, the players could critique their performance. This would help the DM find out if they could handle a PBP game and give other players a body of the DMs work to examine.

That sounds like a fun idea for any DM who wants to do it for feedback.

Not something we would ever enforce as a process by which a DM gets "OK'd" to run a game on the forum.

[dmw71]

One thing another PBP website does is to offer a solo adventure for first time players to get them used to the PBP format. I wonder if it would help to do something similar but for DMs. Have prospective DMs pick a quick, one-shot module to run for a month or two with some experienced players. At the end, the players could critique their performance. This would help the DM find out if they could handle a PBP game and give other players a body of the DMs work to examine.

I read your first line (in 'dialog' above) and immediately thought it'd be a good idea, and my hand was shooting up indicating my willingness to run one for new players. Then I read your next couple of lines (in 'ooc' above) and my hand quickly fell.

Not that player feedback of their DM isn't valuable (quite the contrary), but I believe that any DM interested in such feedback could specifically request it from their players, in the games they're already running (or have run). Or, for "prospective" DMs, they could mention their interest in receiving feedback during their recruitment process or when they list their game. Having Greg (ToniXX) spin up a new forum for specifically this purpose, especially knowing it would only be used on a temporary basis, is probably not the best use of time and/or effort.

Circling back, though, I still do think the solo (or small group) adventure for new players, to get them introduced to either the game or edition; or to the play-by-post system if they're experienced role-players but new to this type of gaming, is an idea that has some merit. I know I would still volunteer to do that.

[GreyWolfVT]

One thing another PBP website does is to offer a solo adventure for first time players to get them used to the PBP format. I wonder if it would help to do something similar but for DMs. Have prospective DMs pick a quick, one-shot module to run for a month or two with some experienced players. At the end, the players could critique their performance. This would help the DM find out if they could handle a PBP game and give other players a body of the DMs work to examine.

I read your first line (in 'dialog' above) and immediately thought it'd be a good idea, and my hand was shooting up indicating my willingness to run one for new players. Then I read your next couple of lines (in 'ooc' above) and my hand quickly fell.

Not that player feedback of their DM isn't valuable (quite the contrary), but I believe that any DM interested in such feedback could specifically request it from their players, in the games they're already running (or have run). Or, for "prospective" DMs, they could mention their interest in receiving feedback during their recruitment process or when they list their game. Having Greg (ToniXX) spin up a new forum for specifically this purpose, especially knowing it would only be used on a temporary basis, is probably not the best use of time and/or effort.

Circling back, though, I still do think the solo (or small group) adventure for new players, to get them introduced to either the game or edition; or to the play-by-post system if they're experienced role-players but new to this type of gaming, is an idea that has some merit. I know I would still volunteer to do that.

You do know Grognardsw did something like this one here it was that Rogue Trial Module a sort of maze of thief tasks and ability tests that did have one on one play but was multiple players at once just in individual threads just for their character. I think it was a lot of fun however I don't know how it was from the DM's perspective. I just know as a player I enjoyed it and had fun.

[OGRE MAGE]

Personally, I like the "Abandoned Games" thread > as a player, it helps me avoid certain DM's who do not care about their players, and as a DM, it helps me avoid the same person(s) who might hit me up to play in my game. I figure if they don't give a shit about their own game, they won't care about mine and there are plenty of players out there who will.

Another great point that I agree with completely.

It's easy to jump into a game as soon as one pops up but, it's important to do a bit of research first if you don't want to end up putting a lot of time and effort into something that might never even get off the ground.

[Grognardsw]

You do know Grognardsw did something like this one here it was that Rogue Trial Module a sort of maze of thief tasks and ability tests that did have one on one play but was multiple players at once just in individual threads just for their character. I think it was a lot of fun however I don't know how it was from the DM's perspective. I just know as a player I enjoyed it and had fun.

This was the Assassin's Run, a quick module by Ed Greenwood from an early Dragon Magazine. It was designed for thieves and assassins. I had wanted to run it back in the day but never got around to it. The length is such it could be completed in 4-6 months, which is a nice change of pace. It resides in the Completed Games thread.

[thirdkingdom]

I agree with everything Alethan says. Players are like cats, and a good DM needs to be adept at herding them. Set an expected posting rate, stick to it when possible and don't be afraid to prod or move things along if no one is moving things forward.

About two years ago one of the moderators of a forum where I am primarily active (rpg.net) instituted a Blacklist for pbp games that seems to have worked fairly well at, if not increasing the length and duration of games, than encouraging people to be more polite about it. Essentially, if you have a player or DM that has a habit of ghosting -- either staying active on the boards but not posting in games they're already in or disappearing altogether, leaving folks hanging and reappearing some time later looking to start up a new game and repeating the cycle -- the members are encouraged to report that individual to the mod and they would be given a Blacklist warning in the specific thread. It's not an official sanction, or a banning, just a note of the fact that they ghosted on a commitment. So, if someone is starting up a game and someone they've never played with wants to sign up it's a simple matter to check the Blacklist and see their record.

There were some people who objected -- who thought it was a fascist move -- but we have found the following:

1)It encourages people to speak up when they can't handle something, as opposed to just dropping out. Saying "sorry guys, I thought I could handle the time commitment but I've realized I can't" or "sorry, I'm going to have to drop because this isn't the style of game I was looking for" is much better -- though harder, somehow -- than simply stopping to post. So, it has certainly encouraged politeness.

2)Many of the Blacklist warnings have gone to those who most strenuously objected to the concept, not surprisingly, but it is also important to note that the frequency of warnings has dropped off significantly.

I'm not suggesting that US institute such a thing -- it means a lot more work for the mods, for one -- but just wanted to mention it as a possible solution. You can see the Blacklist here: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?709 ... -Blacklist

Note that you have to be logged in to rpg.net as a member to view that particular forum.

[Inferno]

Interesting.
The new 'Abandoned Games' thread kind of does that, if you know to look for it.

[Alethan]

The Abandoned Games folder is sort of an unofficial way of keeping track of GMs who have completely left their game to the vultures.

[GreyWolfVT]

it does help though it gives players current and future a good idea of what games are safer to join

[hedgeknight]

The Blacklist over on RPG.net is interesting > and there are a bunch of warnings and bans. I'm all for it for deadbeat DM's and players.

It takes almost no time to drop in, post a two-sentence statement saying, "Real life has swamped me under and I have to close this game. Apologies to all and thanks so much for gaming with me."

That's it! Took me about 10 seconds to type that up. Any DM, ANY DM, who can't do that, doesn't need to BE a DM.

Same goes for players. If you don't have enough decency about you to let your DM (and fellow players) know you are stepping away from the game (for whatever reason), then shit on you, and don't come back. You sure as hell won't be welcome in any game I run if I know about it.

[thirdkingdom]

The Blacklist over on RPG.net is interesting > and there are a bunch of warnings and bans. I'm all for it for deadbeat DM's and players.

It takes almost no time to drop in, post a two-sentence statement saying, "Real life has swamped me under and I have to close this game. Apologies to all and thanks so much for gaming with me."

That's it! Took me about 10 seconds to type that up. Any DM, ANY DM, who can't do that, doesn't need to BE a DM.

Same goes for players. If you don't have enough decency about you to let your DM (and fellow players) know you are stepping away from the game (for whatever reason), then shit on you, and don't come back. You sure as hell won't be welcome in any game I run if I know about it.

Yup.

[rredmond]

It's funny, because I think that we are such an excellent, and somewhat smaller forum, that we have a better rate of games dying an untimely death. But because 99% of the folks here are of such excellent quality, it is just that much more irksome (hurtful I'd say) when it happens here. But this is certainly an interesting topic, and I sure wish our abandoned games list was shorter.

[thirdkingdom]

It's funny, because I think that we are such an excellent, and somewhat smaller forum, that we have a better rate of games dying an untimely death. But because 99% of the folks here are of such excellent quality, it is just that much more irksome (hurtful I'd say) when it happens here. But this is certainly an interesting topic, and I sure wish our abandoned games list was shorter.

Hey, totally not knocking these forums. I once did an idle survey of games being run over at giantitp.com; over 50% died within the first month, the vast majority of which ended with no notice on the DM's part. So, I think there's an exceptional caliber of players here.

[Zhym]

I also agree these aren't evil people. Maybe they were in denial, thinking with the best of intentions that they'd get back on the stick any day now, and before they knew it, a month has passed and, embarrassed, they don't know how to start it up again. Especially those, as Ogre Mage points out, who had been aggressively sharing ambitious visions for their campaign. It's too bad.

This bears repeating. And I think choruses demonizing "deadbeat DMs" can make it worse. DMs who fall behind on updating their games are probably embarrassed enough as it is without adding "shit on you and don't come back" to the mix.

Besides: I can think of one or two dead games that I'd welcome back wholeheartedly right now even though the DMs disappeared without a word.

[rredmond]

It's funny, because I think that we are such an excellent, and somewhat smaller forum, that we have a better rate of games dying an untimely death. But because 99% of the folks here are of such excellent quality, it is just that much more irksome (hurtful I'd say) when it happens here. But this is certainly an interesting topic, and I sure wish our abandoned games list was shorter.

Hey, totally not knocking these forums. I once did an idle survey of games being run over at giantitp.com; over 50% died within the first month, the vast majority of which ended with no notice on the DM's part. So, I think there's an exceptional caliber of players here.

Oh I was totally serious. No hidden message!
I'm a bit shocked at the 50% number (though after reading this thread I shouldn't've been) and totally agree with your assessment of the caliber of players here!
--Ron--

[GreyWolfVT]

Excellent point Hedgeknight. I agree wholeheartedly. I get it life happens to all of us. But yell just pop in doesn't even have to be in every game you are in even just in your intro post pop in say hell life happened and I have to drop my games, something anything is better than how all of the abandoned games have ended that I've been in on here where it is utterly nothing no communication for months to a year from those particular DM's or players then some of them pop back on here and try and hype up a new game they want to run or join. Then again maybe I'm just singling out people and making myself a target. But that has been my exact experience in every abandoned game I've been apart of, same with the players I've seen just vanish with out a trace from games I've been in or run.

Edit: Though I wouldn't go so far as to say "Shit on you and don't come back." there are some folks I'd be happy to see come back on here and was really upset when they did vanish with out a word.

[thirdkingdom]

To clarify, the rpg.net Blacklist is aimed chiefly at serial abandoners -- folks who make a habit of running or playing in games and leaving without the courtesy of a post that takes ten seconds to compose. It's basic manners, for goodness sakes.

[GreyWolfVT]

To clarify, the rpg.net Blacklist is aimed chiefly at serial abandoners -- folks who make a habit of running or playing in games and leaving without the courtesy of a post that takes ten seconds to compose. It's basic manners, for goodness sakes.

Yeah that is the basic sense of it. Not these one time oops sorry guys ordeals.

[Zhym]

One thing I have noticed, though the sample size is small: if the DM tells you he just had his first child, put a one-year countdown timer on the game. As soon as the little one gets mobile, it's all over.

[GreyWolfVT]

Fairly true Zhym.