OOC Discussion II: The Return

[Storm11]

Well to be fair you said I was cheeky for asking to be healed by the guy that can heal himself anytime he pleases.

Then basically we couldn't stay at the inn due to the ridiculous price or 20 golds a night each or something. You then suggested that no other buildings in the town were anything but shells so we weren't likely to find anywhere to stay either.

Then we went to see Ismark who basically suggested that being invisible was not on in a murderous town that has been completely unhelpful in aiding any strangers or even each other. He was also not at all interested in taking us in despite our ability to defend him and trying to find and rescue his sister.

We went to talk to the shop keeper and buy some gear and were told what we need he didn't have and intimated that we were stupid for even asking, and what he did have he would sell us at prices that would ruin most people (I am at a loss to know how he stays open at all)

Then we went to Madame Eva who was helpful.

Then we watched and followed the townsfolk who didn't do anything but sleep and play cards pretty much.

Then we tried the church for some holy water facilities to try and at least make our own and you basically said it was a ridiculous idea.

And I got the impression you lost interest in our side of the game, you didn't post very often and what we tried or suggested you just kind of said it didn't work or there wasn't anything happening.

So I don't think am out of line suggesting we tried and there wasn't much to discover or any interaction we could either afford or begin.

It's not a complaint. It's just what happened is all.

[Zhym]

Well to be fair you said I was cheeky for asking to be healed by the guy that can heal himself anytime he pleases.

I don't remember who you're talking about here, but I assume it's Father Donavich, since he's the only one around I could imagine going to looking for healing. I don't want to go too much into game mechanics, but he's a low-level priest who is using every bit of his meager powers just to try to keep the church protected. He has information he can share (and that's basically his only purpose in the module), but he is far too overwhelmed by his nightly task to have any ability to heal adventurers who are much more powerful than he is.

Then basically we couldn't stay at the inn due to the ridiculous price or 20 golds a night each or something. You then suggested that no other buildings in the town were anything but shells so we weren't likely to find anywhere to stay either.

Bragar and Castran returned from the castle, flush with treasures, and in need of lodging. What do you think the proprietors of the only inn in town are going to do? Even if they don't know you're carrying a heavy bag full of gems, they can have a pretty good guess that anyone making it back from the castle alive probably managed to drag some coin back with them; it's what adventurers do. Besides, adventurers tend to get attacked in this town; they had to figure in the cost of damages. So of course they demanded an insane price. Bragar and Castran could even have afforded it—those are some mighty valuable gems they brought back. Or they could have tried to negotiate.

As for the other buildings, any building in Barovia is either abandoned or occupied by villagers whose families have been terrorized for generations. Abandoned properties fall apart.

Why, might you ask, aren't there other inns? Maybe there aren't enough adventurers who come across this place to support more than one inn. Maybe the gypsies run the town like a crime syndicate. Maybe it's because that's what the module says.

Then we went to see Ismark who basically suggested that being invisible was not on in a murderous town that has been completely unhelpful in aiding any strangers or even each other. He was also not at all interested in taking us in despite our ability to defend him and trying to find and rescue his sister.

In a town dominated by someone like Strahd, the natives prefer to see who they are talking to—and even that might be deceiving. Ismark found it rude for someone to want to carry on a conversation without showing his face. I don't see that as a ridiculous opinion for someone in his position.

And why should he be interested in talking to you? The only news you had was that his sister was either dead or worse. Only two adventurers survived the expedition to the castle, and those two clearly did not have the strength to try to go back. Neither Bragar nor Castran were in the group Ismark had met with earlier. In short, Ismark had no reason to trust you nor to believe that the two adventurers who showed up at his door could help him or rescue his sister. As far as he's concerned, adventurers draw Strahd's attention. The last time some adventurers had a sleepover at his place, it resulted in a battle that raged through his house. Then those adventurers took off with his sister, who is now missing. He'd rather you get attacked somewhere else, thanks. Besides, he was distraught at the news about his sister.

It could also be, in terms of game mechanics, that Ismark doesn't have much assistance that he could give anyway. Lots of characters in this module are there as plot hooks and for information. I've tried to flesh some of them out as best I could, but Ismark in particular is a little sick of dealing with adventurers at the moment. Even if he had help to give, he wouldn't be interested.

We went to talk to the shop keeper and buy some gear and were told what we need he didn't have and intimated that we were stupid for even asking, and what he did have he would sell us at prices that would ruin most people (I am at a loss to know how he stays open at all)

Again, I point to supply and demand economics. The shop keeper has a monopoly. He doesn't do business often, but when he does, he makes a killing (though not literally, as far as you know). If one were to inquire, as Tumbler did early on in the game, he would say that it's not cheap or easy for him to obtain his inventory, so it's not entirely greed that drives his prices up.

BTW, that's straight from the module:

[Bildrath] will sell the PCs anything on the official AD&D™ shopping list, except items found under "Religious Items," "Livestock," and "Transport." Everything is ten times the normal price. . . . He is not, however, above making a profit from anyone else who is unlucky enough to find themselves here. He serves himself. He certainly promises no sanctuary. He never bargains a price since he believes, "If you want it badly enough, you'll pay for it — because you certainly won't be taking your business elsewhere."

Then we watched and followed the townsfolk who didn't do anything but sleep and play cards pretty much.

True enough. The townsfolk don't have a lot going on, frankly, except when it intersects whatever Strahd's up to. But I think a couple of nuggets of info might still have come out.

Then we tried the church for some holy water facilities to try and at least make our own and you basically said it was a ridiculous idea.

I did not mean to suggest that it was a ridiculous idea. Of course it would make sense to make holy water if possible. It's just that holy water isn't easy to make. Here is the language from the 1e DMG on the subject:

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So most of the difficulty in making holy water is straight BtB. I did decide that the font was defiled, but I figured that made sense in a church where a low-level cleric has barely managed to protect the altar itself. And it was in keeping with the module, which makes it clear that religious items are almost impossible to obtain in Strahd's domain (see the quote above re: religious items not being available at Bildrath's, for example).

I spent a lot of time searching the Internet and reading about this, to be honest, to try to figure out how making holy water worked (there's another method, from Dragon magazine, I believe, that requires three priests of the same faith). I didn't just want to say "you can't do it." So I listed the obstacles, the biggest one being a defiled font that would have to be remade (and, perhaps, a lack of resources in Barovia for doing that). My thought was that listing the obstacles would allow creative players to find ways around them. With clever play and some determination maybe some holy water could be created. It would certainly have been earned! Of course, "screw it, it can't be done" was also a legitimate response.

And I got the impression you lost interest in our side of the game, you didn't post very often and what we tried or suggested you just kind of said it didn't work or there wasn't anything happening.

I don't think that's a fair assessment. Looking back at your thread, I posted every update except for one (which took a week) within a day of each of you having posted, until your "We can't do anything or go anywhere or make a difference in any way" post, at which point of course things slowed down.

We went over this in OOC at the time and I don't really feel like rehashing it (other than responding to your points above). Turns out I suck at trying to turn the town of Barovia into anything interesting. I do still think, however, that if you look back you'll see there were some nuggets of information in all of that, and that I at least tried to give you options.

[Storm11]

I am not trying to have ago at you at all.

It was a concise assessment of our time trying to garner Intel that Agax alluded to.

I went into more detail about why because you suggested that wasn't the case.

Am not trying to say you suck at it. If there was nothing for us to do or that we could have done then that's cool.

I wasn't having a go at you

[Zhym]

No worries; I don't see it as having a go at me. I'm just trying to explain why a lot of the cases where it seemed like you couldn't do anything, it was either because the "resources" in the town aren't actually that helpful (Fr. Donavich, Ismark) or you just have to adjust to the fact that life in town is really expensive.

I'm also pointing out that you did gather intel. The information rate over time was, I admit, crappy.

On a separate note, here's a suggestion that you can all take or ignore as you like: go ahead and head up to the castle. Yeah, the party will arrive just before dark, which isn't optimal. But every night an adventuring party of size N > 2 has been in town, they have been attacked late at night, which, amazingly, has always prevented them from getting a morning start to the castle. Coincidence? Or does Strahd try to make sure that adventurers can only show up at his castle in the evening? If you stay in town another night, you can probably bet on another attack timed as inconveniently as possible. Personally, I'd rather avoid spending the next two weeks running another mostly-pointless battle. The castle is much more interesting. Whether you get there during the day or just before nightfall won't make that much of a difference.

Just my advice, as Magnus used to say, "as a fan of the game."

[GreyWolfVT]

Just my advice we aren't meant to defeat Strahd I'm sure the module has made it quite impossible so we may as well just head off to our ultimate doom.
But at least we can still say:

[Zhym]

It is possible to defeat Strahd. That's the ending the module contemplates (for some strange reason).

But it is also very difficult, and whether you arrive at the castle during the day or night isn't going to make much difference to the outcome. Smart play will make a difference. I'll go ahead and make one more suggestion: choosing when and where to rest will be one of the biggest decisions you make. If you try to hole up in the castle, wandering monsters (a few of which aren't bothered by such trivial things as walls) are an issue. If you decide to rest outside the castle, do you try to stay near the castle? In the woods? In town? How do you get back out of the castle? Each option has its dangers and advantages. My advice? Figure out before you go in where you'll try to rest and how you'll get there.

[GreyWolfVT]

I'd have to say that is easier said than done Zhym. Getting in the castle is easier than getting back out alive to a place to even consider resting. Although for bumbling villagers we saved they somehow managed to leave though I think since nobody saw them at the village they likely did not live.

[Zhym]

Who said it was easy?

[GreyWolfVT]

I never said I wanted it to be easy but getting out and away from the castle alive is a what 2 in how many did we have originally to only have the two that lived make it out? I don't like them odds.

[Dram]

w

[Dram]

It is time for my yearly hunting trip to the great north of the Upper peninsula. I will be gone October 8-17. Please play my character as needed.

[Inferno]

It is possible to defeat Strahd. That's the ending the module contemplates (for some strange reason).

But it is also very difficult, and whether you arrive at the castle during the day or night isn't going to make much difference to the outcome. Smart play will make a difference. I'll go ahead and make one more suggestion: choosing when and where to rest will be one of the biggest decisions you make. If you try to hole up in the castle, wandering monsters (a few of which aren't bothered by such trivial things as walls) are an issue. If you decide to rest outside the castle, do you try to stay near the castle? In the woods? In town? How do you get back out of the castle? Each option has its dangers and advantages. My advice? Figure out before you go in where you'll try to rest and how you'll get there.

Thanks for the generous DM hints, Zhym.

Guys, let's figure out plans. (I'm fine with kicking it off, but these are only suggestions. I'd love to hear from everyone.)

If day or night doesn't matter, and Strahd's eyes and ears are everywhere in the village preventing rest every night, let's go to the castle now.

If resting inside the castle is impossible, and village attacks only disturb our rest at night, maybe we explore the castle at night and leave it and retreat to the village during daylight??

We can enter the castle on foot, I suppose, saving spells for leaving the castle. I liked Castran's polymorphing into a pegasus to carry Bragar out last time. If Agax does likewise when we want to leave to get a rest, Agax might be able to carry two people. He has two polymorph potions, so that's six of us (and polymorphing heals too). Maybe the druid can carry two more as a pegasus? If so, that's all of us. Anyone else have flight or polymorph spells or potions?

I think we may have to leave the bears behind. Maybe the druid can release them and then attract other, flying friends, like Giant Eagles? If yes, maybe we can fly into the castle as well?

In short: Go to the castle now (walk or fly, depending on the druid). Explore it at night. Leave at dawn (or sooner if we're badly injured/low on spells) via flight and polymorphed flight to hide and rest in the village in daylight.

Any other ideas at all? Thanks.

[Zhym]

Maybe the druid can carry two more as a pegasus?

Druids can change only into real-world reptiles, birds, or mammals that are no larger than a black bear (roughly twice the druid's weight). A pegasus is right out.

I think we may have to leave the bears behind. Maybe the druid can release them and then attract other, flying friends, like Giant Eagles? If yes, maybe we can fly into the castle as well?

Shinyah would not take kindly to such a suggestion. The bears are his companions, not servants to be dismissed when another creature might be more convenient.

[Inferno]

Thanks, Zhym.
So Agax's two Polymorph potions allow 6 to flee the castle to rest. Shinyah can polymorph himself out. We need transport for 2 more, or else we don't bring the henchmen in. Any Fly or Polymorph potions in the group?

Also, was thinking about those deadly undead wandering monsters. If sound attracts them, maybe we're silenced as we creep around the castle, until we need to start casting spells and then we cancel the spell. Just thinking out loud. No pun intended.

[Storm11]

Castran can walk out in Wraithform.

I think sound isn't the problem. We were sleeping in a hidden chamber behind two hidden secret doors and a fireplace and were attacked by wraiths through the walls.

We need to be quick, careful and deadly. That's my take.

[Inferno]

Agree.

Castran can walk out in Wraithform.

Great we need one more magic exit. Anyone?

If there's time between 10am and 1pm, Agax could study his Fly spell, and that would solve it. Zhym?

[GreyWolfVT]

Gragog's extent of magics is a enchanted spear as well as his armor and ring of protection, amulet of health, 3 healing potions, a potion of heroism, and a potion of frost giant strength for dire needs. No flying, levitate or polymorph or teleport or invisibility nothing sorry.

[Cwreando]

IS there a separate building away from the castle that might be used for resting that we could back out of the castle if needed to rest in should we need it? Something that the wandering monsters of the castle won't be involved in?

[Zhym]

If there's time between 10am and 1pm, Agax could study his Fly spell, and that would solve it. Zhym?

You can sub in Fly. What spell do you want to replace?

[Inferno]

Thanks!

If I drop Wall of Fire, I can memorize Polymorph Self, which is better than Fly for an evac.
That, and the potions, covers all nine of us human and demihumans.

Anyone got an idea for magically transporting out two bears? If not, they and Shinyah can't come. Or we can never rest.