The Rise of Smaug (Burning Wheel)

[Rusty Tincanne]

I was not initially drawn to it, but he more I think on the situation these people are in, I am liking the idea of a family dwarf that regularly used a horse and cart to ferry goods between Erebor and Dale, possible heading to Long Lake on occasion, even. He would have been on such an outing when Smaug routed the dwarfs from the hold, and with a dragon on the loose, unable to get back to the hold. In the aftermath he was able to find his wife's charred remains, but no trace of their child. That would greatly change the answer I set out before. He would swear an oath to the world at large he would reunite with his child and hold him/her in his arms again. Perhaps another oath or a belief to lay his wife's bones to rest in another dwarf hold of importance to her...

As a husband and father I cannot fathom the torment such a person would be going through. It might not even be healthy to try, but it does speak to me. Thoughts? Too heavy?

I need to read through the BWG book to get a better feel for life paths and skills and traits available to make this guy come alive more.

[Marullus]

That sounds good! You could still go with Trader options like those above. Or, if your focus is more on the family aspect of him, you can end up with something more like this. Patient, Dispute-Settler, and Folksy Wisdom as required traits gives some clear color. There are lots of options to tinker with amongst the lifepaths. You don't have to kill off his family, either. Some could be alive and bought as NPCs with Resource Points/Relationships, giving room for complications as your group sets out, too.

[Fulci]

Thanks for the input, Marullus! This gives a new direction to the character, turning him into some sorts of a self-made prophet (and with so much discussion about Fate, I might end up taking the Rune Caster lifepath... But let's stick to the backstory and the Beliefs, lifepaths come later)

What does it mean to embrace the "dwarven life"?

What I meant was rather this: Farvick (a decadent individualist in the past, for which he was exiled) grew to understand, that he can only live among his kin. In my original concept, there is a dissonance in his motives: he wants to be part of the community again for his own good. He doesn't want to change it. The need to belongs stems from his own selfish motives.

But I like the idea of him having a harrowing, life-changing experience and becoming a prophet of the way of the First Dwarves.

Farvick was born a noble, but was exiled for his decadence and individualism (he placed himself above the community). For a few decades, he wandered Middle Earth, unable to find his place. During his travels, he stumbled upon the Scrolls of Thrain.

1. Smaug is the hand of fate, a punishment for abandoning the way of the First Dwarves. I will teach my kin of the old way.
2. I must be accepted by the dwarves again.

[Rusty Tincanne]

If done well, he could get many converts, but if done insensitively, I can see conflicts happening if/when your outcast-noble starts blaming the deaths of many-a-family-member on the dwarfs own lifestyle choices. good stuff.

[Fulci]

Especially that he himself was a decadent bad dwarf a few decades ago..

[Enoch]

By the way, if you want to do a trader, Husband/Wife leads right to Trader. You don't necessarily need Longbeard. Oathswearer isn't about you swearing oaths, but more acting like a notary public and officiating over other dwarves making oaths.

[Enoch]

Marullus, you might want to request a forum, since it looks like the game will probably go forward. That way we can start different threads for campaign background, character burning, rules mechanics, etc.

[Rusty Tincanne]

By the way, if you want to do a trader, Husband/Wife leads right to Trader. You don't necessarily need Longbeard.

Marullus's post (to my initial concept) mentioned that string of life paths. Glad to see I understood it correctly.

As an aside, I have to say that BW was incredibly intimidating to me when i initially heard of it. So many specialized terms an very different concepts from previous RPGs I have participated in. Fortunately mouse guard and torchbearer were so compelling to me that I played one game of each. Now BWG is not as scary. And I really love how there are mechanics built in to see about mundane things, like mending a wineskin or training an animal. We get to play full characters rather than a list of six stats wih a sword. It is hard to believe more people don't play it.

[Enoch]

One of the things I love about BW (it is far and away my favorite system) is that a poor village cobbler is as compelling to play as an armored knight. They will necessarily be telling very different stories--but they can even coexist in the same game. There's nothing about the game that requires any kind of balance of power between characters. You could easily have a game with a valiant knight and the camp follower that mends his clothes.

[Dogma]

...I have to say that BW was incredibly intimidating to me when i initially heard of it. So many specialized terms an very different concepts from previous RPGs I have participated in.

this is exactly feelings about BW. I've felt it wold interesting to play, but have found it intimidating to get into. I'll be watching this with interest to see how it plays out.

[Rusty Tincanne]

Dogma, I cannot encourage you nearly enough to just jump in with both feet. I've only been a member a short while, but from my observation, Burning Wheel games happen infrequently on the US. So take the plunge while you can! (And who wouldn't want to play a dwarf at the lowest point in their life, exploring how they might pick up the broken shards of their life? )

If you need a basic rundown of a big BW fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_uhLRAXngg I have only watched the first bit, but I loved his TB review, and from what I can tell, this is just as good of an explanation of a game.

[Marullus]

Hey Dogma! Best way to learn is to jump in!

Fulci - great direction! At that point, you don't need the Scrolls (but referring to them is great for color). You just need First Dwarves-Wise. You can then proceed to declare things about your doctrine, and if your rolls succeed, they are even true.

Oh, right... Born - Carter - Husband - Trader works. I always prefer to have some kind alive as Relationships rather than to kill them off in tragic back story. Living relatives provide better grist.

[Marullus]

So we have Enoch, Rusty Tincanne, Fulci, FantasyChic, and maybe Dogma? That should be enough to justify a game forum.

[Dogma]

OK. put me down for a strong maybe . I'll look over the starter pdfs and check out the video. If I can wrap my head around some of it and come up with an interesting idea fora PC I'll give it a go.

[Keehnelf]

Really all you need to know to understand how to play is Hub and Spokes (the starter PDF); the other systems add lots of crunch but don't later the utility or relevance of anything you learn earlier. I'd also note that the non-mechanical bits are just as important as the mechanical parts of the rule book where learning how to play is concerned, because they systematically reinforce the unusual assumptions BW makes compared with other RPGs. Don't skip around to the "rules sections" or it will continue to be intimidating and confusing. The only parts really able to be skipped wholesale are the life paths, traits and skills lists (until you need them in character burning).

[Marullus]

Joining the crew, Keehnelf?

[Keehnelf]

I wish I had time. BW is my favorite RPG, all around.

[Marullus]

Agreed and understood.

The request for a game forum is in, but might take a while. We can continue to bat around ideas here in the meantime.

We've focused on dwarves (which I'm good with), but is anyone interested in a human from Dale? Other thoughts, wishes, dreams, desires for the brainstorming?

FantasyChic, any initial thoughts we can help flesh out?

[Fulci]

Marullus, I'm rather intrigued by the Rune Caster lifepath... Or would you advise against it?

lifepaths1.PNG (34.73 KiB) Viewed 422 times

Here's a possible chain.
I'm not too keen about the required traits though - Humility and Boaster... they don't fit the character at all.
Boaster is more or less fine, but "Humility in the Face of your Betters", no, not really.

[Marullus]

First, the easy answer. Only the first trait listed is required. Additional traits are optional, but only cost 1pt instead of their full cost. So, you must take the Adventurer trait. If you want the Boaster trait, it is available but not required.

Second, "Humility in the Face of your Betters."
The general answer: Lifepaths are designed to offer some hard choices. If it isn't meshing with your concept, either the concept needs to evolve or you need a different lifepath.
The specific answer: Born Noble is one thing; he can have that tie, that mark of birth and privilege of literacy, but move to the Artificer setting to train to be a great craftsman, or to the Guilder setting to pursue a common trade. Remaining in the Noble subsetting means that his elders intended him for a life in the government of the Dwarven kingdom. Taking a lifepath in the Noble setting is a significant statement about who we was intended to be, even if not who he became. There are two lifepaths available for Noble adolescents - Abdecart and Ardent. They are Administration and Leadership training, respectively. The Abdecart adolescent is sent to study history, and has a future as a Chronicler, Treasurer, or Seneschal. The Ardent is an apprentice ruler, kind of equivalent to a being a Squire. It is the only route to being a Noble Axe Bearer, which is the only route to being a Dwarven Prince. Like a squire, it is thankless scut-work, but builds character... it is deemed necessary to open the doors to Knighthood. In the dwarven version, the first thing they impress upon an adolescent dwarf who might one day need to lead is how to comport himself around Kings, Princes, and those before him, hence the trait. His available skills include sucking up (soothing platitudes) and scut-work (accounting). Ardents usually put up with this because they know it is their route to learning strength of arms and warfare as an Axe-bearer and the necessary pathway to their future as a Prince, High Captain, or societal leader. They learn they can't have authority until they know how to respect authority. (Special note: in Burning Wheel Gold the Ardent also gets "whispered-secrets-wise" which doesn't appear in the original book or online engine.)

This doesn't mean all Princes and leaders are unfailingly humble. A Dwarven Prince or King must follow this route, so has the required traits of Humble in the Face of ones Betters, Proud, and Grumbling. It is possible for traits to come into conflict on an interesting character very easily. Part of the use of traits in the game is to earn Artha rewards by using your traits against yourself to your own detriment.

So, looking to your character specifically.
If you have the Ardent lifepath, it signifies: Your guy was destined and groomed for greatness, expected to lead in the Kingdom. He successfully survived an adolescence spent apprenticing in court at the feet of the King and the nobles; a rare opportunity. Perhaps he even might have been the heir before Thorin if he hadn't abdicated. That strict adolescence wrankled him enough to become an Outcast rather than continuing on, but it left its mark on him nonetheless... even if he rebels against it, those patterns of hierarchical dwarven life are ingrained.
If he rebelled so early and so hard as to refuse to develop the Humble in the Face of his Betters trait, it tells you that he didn't survive adolescence or complete his time as an Ardent. A youth so insolent would not have been able to remain long enough to learn the skills from those years. So, you put his failing-out as color and you pick a different lifepath for his adolescent period. Did they send him to the libraries to study as an Abdecart (and get the Know It All trait)? Did he find his place only among the Guilders, picking up a trade and getting a wider taste for life before leaving the Dwarfhold?
Or, we skip the Ardent idea and you decide his adolescence took a totally different route. He could have been sent to the Artificers or Guilders directly, meant for administration as an Abdecart, or he might be a more distant relation to the throne (or from disgraced parentage) so that the Noble life paths were not suitable in the first place.

I have no issue with the Runcaster lifepath. Make sure you read the details of the Slave To Fate trait, and work it into your narrative. It is a very interesting story to have someone who rebelled against a Noble birth and education, is marked forever as an outsider because he rejected his fate to go adventuring, and then returns with a new commitment to ancient ways and striving to understand and follow destiny.