OOC 2 - Chat It Up!

[Rex]

I am fine with adding Dex reaction and Weapon Speed to initiative. My started out playing Holmes D&D which is initiative in order of Dex and my favorite Clone is Hyperborea which is 1d6, break ties by Dex. So works just fine for me.

[shaidar]

If 10 is highest (best) then I guess you will add dex and subtract weapon speeds?

[Rex]

By the book (2e PHP page 14 for Dex and 94 for Initiative) Dex doesn't modify Initiative. Reaction Adjustment is used to modify an individuals chance to be surprised. Weapon speed is added to the 1d10 initiative roll along with a bunch of other modifiers and the Lowest result goes wins initiative. The actual statement is "Low roll wins initiative."

That said, Dex is often included in Initiative rolls when using individual initiative. This is a hold over from Holmes Basic I suspect. To my thinking, I am fine with however we play it. None of it will make any difference in how I enjoy the game.

[shaidar]

None of it will make any difference in how I enjoy the game.

Oh, absolutely this!

My question wasn't picking or anything, just looking for clarity.

[Edeldhur]

Since I am always a fan of trying RAW first, I would rather not have Dex modifiers on Init.

What is the reasoning behind using it?

[Rex]

No problem. I am more used to 1e and just happened to be looking it up when you posted.

[dmw71]

I just realized, in 2nd edition, the higher the initiative roll, the better.

I don’t think so.

My understanding is, the lower, the better. That’s why the larger, two handed weapons have higher speed factors.

—

Standard Initiative Procedure
To determine the initiative order for a round of combat, roll 1d10 for each side in the battle. Normally, this means the DM rolls for the monsters (or NPCs), while one of the players rolls for the PC party. Low roll wins initiative. If more than two sides are involved in combat, the remaining sides act in ascending order of initiative.

[hedgeknight]

Weird...I guess we just flipped it to adjust for Dex and Weapon Speeds.
Man, I'm getting older by the day. Maybe by the minute

[Edeldhur]

We all are!

My preference is still either Group Initiative, or Group Initiative with modifiers.
When players declare their actions, they provide their Init modifier (Weapon Speed, or Casting Time or whatever).
DM rolls group init, and then it is simple to put everyone's actions in order.
Could that work?

[hedgeknight]

You know, I've muddied the waters enough. Let's just keep it 1d10 individual rolls with no mods. That just makes it simple.

[hedgeknight]

Will give Darithe the day to post then move forward.

[Edeldhur]

You know, I've muddied the waters enough. Let's just keep it 1d10 individual rolls with no mods. That just makes it simple.

In that case, since there will be no individual modifiers to Initiative, perhaps use group initiative? Smooth since there is no waiting around for individual posters.

[GreyWolfVT]

doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

[hedgeknight]

In that case, since there will be no individual modifiers to Initiative, perhaps use group initiative? Smooth since there is no waiting around for individual posters.

Moving forward...maybe so. Inferno does group initiative in their games...I think; at least I know they roll all initiatives whether group or individual.

[dmw71]

I think 2e has an excellent initiative system, and my strong recommendation would be to just run initiative by the book, using both the standard and optional modifiers:

To determine the initiative order for a round of combat, roll
1d10 for each side in the battle. Normally, this means the DM
rolls for the monsters (or NPCs), while one of the players rolls
for the PC party. Low roll wins initiative. If more than two sides
are involved in combat, the remaining sides act in ascending
order of initiative.
If both (or all) sides roll the same number for initiative,
everything happens simultaneously—all attack rolls, damage,
spells, and other actions are completed before any results are
applied. It is possible for a wizard to be slain by goblins who
collapse from his sleep spell at the end of the round.

Situational factors can affect who has initiative. To reflect
this, modifiers are added to or subtracted from the initiative
die roll.

Table 55 - Standard Modifiers to Initiative

Table 55 - Standard Modifiers to Initiative.png (45.95 KiB) Viewed 466 times

Table 56 - Optional Modifiers to Initiative

Table 56 - Optional Modifiers to Initiative.png (42.07 KiB) Viewed 466 times

[hedgeknight]

the Standard Modifiers are fine with me; we use those in just about every game I've ever played or ran.
As for the Optional Modifiers...well, the water starts to get muddy and a fight quickly becomes a matter of modifiers.

[dmw71]

As for the Optional Modifiers...well, the water starts to get muddy and a fight quickly becomes a matter of modifiers.

It isn't always easy for me, but I can force myself to come around to the fact that combat can be thought of as an abstraction of circumstances. Basic D&D is much better for that due to the fact that spells did not have casting times and every weapon did 1d6 damage (without the optional variable weapon damage rule).

I don't feel the same in an Advanced D&D game. In AD&D, not only are spells written to release their effects at different times, but weapons are designed with multiple different mechanical differences (variable damage dice (in general; and against different sized creatures), speed factor, reach/space requirements, etc...).


When combat is such an integral part of the game, as it is in D&D, different considerations should have an impact when the rules allow for it:

Speed <-------------> Damage

Just my two copper bits.

[GreyWolfVT]

alright all this slipping in blood and gore idk why made me flash back to an old movie from childhood frosty the snowman and the magician saying "messy messy messy" after botching a trick and dumping raw eggs out of his hat.

[hedgeknight]

Busy! Busy! Busy!

[Edeldhur]

Christmas!