OOC Discussion

[jemmus]

Good points. A few comments.
-To me it does seem like the Valley of the Mists module was a little overpowered for 1st level. I'm not sure how we could have avoided having to fight the whole room of bandits (and the officer boss) at once if we'd stayed together. We killed quite a few bakemono-sho the night before, but were still outnumbered three to one, with a dai-bakemono attacking too.

-We could have avoided that by taking out the two guards before they could sound the alarm. We tried, but the rolls didn't happen. If we'd had a ninja, he could have maybe taken them out silently. Or run down the escaping one. Or if we'd had a functioning shugenja, a spell could have helped. Bushi in armor are just too slow for chasing a lot of things down.

-I was a little surprised that the second rank of bakemono-sho could attack us with wakizashi from Long range. I haven't played many RPGs since AD&D back when it was new, and I can't remember how we handled that. I think we considered the first rank in the way of the second rank, so they couldn't attack unless they had a long polearm.

-Agreed that the standard hack-and-slash combat approach didn't work. Further rules reading is needed, for me at least, to get more awareness of the tactical options. I know about the Thrust attack option. Well, I saw it, but kind of ignored it. Because historically katana weren't much used for stabbing. My history buff perfectionism got in the way of learning the rule.

-I learned a lot about chargen from Toshizo. That design had some mistakes that I won't make again. So maybe I kind of graduated to 2nd level as a player.

[Marullus]

-I was a little surprised that the second rank of bakemono-sho could attack us with wakizashi from Long range. I haven't played many RPGs since AD&D back when it was new, and I can't remember how we handled that. I think we considered the first rank in the way of the second rank, so they couldn't attack unless they had a long polearm.

Yeah, it wasn't Optimal and they had the -1 BCS for the Long Range, but it is totally doable in the Bushido rules. What I think I missed was applying the "allies adjacent" thing, which for them would include jostling on either side, and then attacking between the front ranks, for a total of -4 more. Where the same rule would have been just -2 for each of you with a single rank. But as above, it was the fire that did you in.

It is reasonable that you all could take on the Dai-Bakemono if you all ganged up on him, but he's superior in a straight fight. I don't know how they expected you to tackle this.

My understanding of Japanese tales usually includes creative trickery, bargaining, and only fighting when you have a pitched advantage (or heroically when you're badass and can handle being outnumbered).

[ffilz]

It's possible the scenario was balanced against a much larger group of PCs. Back in those days, 10-12 players at the table was not unheard of and that would make a huge difference. Or maybe it expected PCs to have henchmen or hirelings. Some ashigiru commanded by PC samurai could make the scenario go a lot better. We may also be spoiled by newer gaming trends that back off on the level of opposition thrown at the players. Perhaps a strategic retreat was in order, though I'm not clear on when that can be done without losing honor in Bushido.

When we were approaching the bandits, the pretty short range of magic rendered Taka not very helpful, and her slow movement meant she couldn't get into range. And I'm the wrong player to try and play a social character, especially in the Japanese society.

[jemmus]

One of the other Bushido adventures has the 1st level PCs facing a really tough monster, I don't remember which one. It seemed like to much for 1st levels to me. So maybe that was just the Bushido culture back then. Kill off PCs, get karma and new ones.

[ffilz]

One of the other Bushido adventures has the 1st level PCs facing a really tough monster, I don't remember which one. It seemed like to much for 1st levels to me. So maybe that was just the Bushido culture back then. Kill off PCs, get karma and new ones.

Yea, maybe. And in the gaming culture of the 70s and 80s when you would finish a module in a play session, rebooting next session with new PCs with more karma could hold attention. And if I understand things, it also emulates a certain set of the fiction/media in the genre.

I really wish I had the time to get into the genre. All of my play in the genre makes me really want to do more and as we've struggled with some of the mechanics, I keep wondering how I would implement the genre in Cold Iron (college friend's home brew system from the 80s) or give RuneQuest Land of Ninja a spin (or probably some other version of D100 with samurai that is actually available).

[jemmus]

Sounds interesting. I hope you get some to work something up. I'd like to play.

[ffilz]

Sounds interesting. I hope you get some to work something up. I'd like to play.

Oh, that's such a long shot dream... Not quite sure about either system for play by post, though on the other hand, combat in either really isn't any more involved that Bushido and we've managed several combats between the two campaigns.

If only I could find some short and sweet stories or write-ups that would help me grok the Samurai culture... Somehow I have a real hard time wrapping my head around enough of it to make something that feels good.

[jmacatty]

When I was introduced to Bushido back in the 70's (yeah yeah, I'm that old), our group usually contained about 7-10 PCs and most of the PC's had at least one retainer. There were no magic users and no Ninja. One guy was a gakusho, one or two were budoka, the rest were bushi, peasant, ronin or samurai. Most combat was arranged by the DM as indivdual duels. There was one situation where we actually fought in a major battle, one where we took out a fortress, but that was after we had recruited a shitpot full of allies and we still lost half the party (inclyding my last character). There were a few fights with nakome and the like. Lots and lots of role playing. I just found out that that group still meets every other Saturday.

[ffilz]

Yea, I'm that old too... I remember seeing gamers at MIT playing the Tyr Games edition... There was quite a following of all things Japanese there that eventually got into anime. Sheldon Price who wrote up Ninja for the Dragon was among the MIT gamers. I just didn't get into it at the time and now I regret it. At that time I would have had the time to absorb enough to feel confident running (or even playing) in samurai and ninja games.

[jmacatty]

I still have a copy of the TYR rules.

[jemmus]

Wow, you went to MIT? If so, that's amazing. And by the way, I'm about that old too. I started playing AD&D in high school in 1980 I think.
I've searched quite a bit for good samurai-based adventurers/modules. So far I've only found one that I kind of like. I wouldn't worry about running an "authentic Japan" game. I've read about some Bushido campaigns on reddit and other places, and most of them were a lot like regular fantasy RPGs. Like, heavily focused on fighting monsters. One campaign was about saving Nippon from a demon king and his army. Regular fantasy RPGing, but with a samurai and ninjas theme. That campaign went on for years and it sounds like it was really, really fun.

BTW, I just found this: Feudal Japanese Fantasy RPG Resources (updated 3/25/14) http://tabletopdiversions.blogspot.com/ ... urces.html
Looks like some good stuff. But I'm surprised it doesn't mention the Sengoku RPG.

[ffilz]

I didn’t go to MIT. I joined their games club as a high school kid. I went to RPI.

[jemmus]

RPI's a great school too.

[ffilz]

There's a part of me that is really tempted to try and make a samurai flavored Cold Iron campaign. A big issue would be setting (use Japan or something else), and then details of the setting so that I can give some options for adventure. Another big issue would be dealing with all the cool Japanese weapons in Cold Iron which as a system favors kind of basic weapons, though probably the biggest challenge would be adding a disarm system. In some ways, I'd be better off just running a "generic D&D fantasy" campaign with Cold Iron, but recruiting for such has never shown much interest. On the challenges, there's something to be said for figuring out things as they become necessary.

If enough of you are game to work with me while I hack a system and I get some good ideas for setting, I'd be willing to give it a go. My campaign would not be an intensely social campaign, but you can't do samurai without some degree of social interaction. Scenarios would likely be investigate some mystery in the forest or mountains, or escort someone important from here to there, but if I found a decent outline for inter-clan social maneuvering, we might be able to extend to midnight raids on castles or softer targets.

A lot of what made me abandon this campaign was just making sense of The Valley of the Mists enough to present a coherent adventure. For something socially less complex, the various samurai games I have give lots of monster ideas and plenty of nice encounter tables and I think I could easily create places of mystery (which don't need to be extensive) and I have a variety of Asian themed modules (I'd stay away from the Bushido ones, or at least the FGU ones) between TSR modules, White Dwarf, and a few other sources. Not that I need huge numbers of modules for a play by post...

Here's my entry point for all things Cold Iron: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nyO ... sp=sharing

Take a browse and see if the system looks intriguing to you.

[jemmus]

Cool, count me in. You could try posting the game on RPG Crossing. https://www.rpgcrossing.com/ The difference from Unseen Servant is it has a lot more players than GMs. If you want to join a game as a player, you have to apply by presenting a PC with a written up backstory. GM than decides who can join the game and who can't. The focus at RPGX is on RP and writing, so it's probably not to everyone's taste. But there are plenty of players willing to join games and try out different systems. I was in an Amber diceless game there and another Amber diceless game with extensive homebrew rules modifications there. Pretty obscure systems, but both games got 5-6 players who stuck around.

[ffilz]

Cool, count me in. You could try posting the game on RPG Crossing. https://www.rpgcrossing.com/ The difference from Unseen Servant is it has a lot more players than GMs. If you want to join a game as a player, you have to apply by presenting a PC with a written up backstory. GM than decides who can join the game and who can't. The focus at RPGX is on RP and writing, so it's probably not to everyone's taste. But there are plenty of players willing to join games and try out different systems. I was in an Amber diceless game there and another Amber diceless game with extensive homebrew rules modifications there. Pretty obscure systems, but both games got 5-6 players who stuck around.

Well, there we go, I've posted in LFPG here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11658

I'm not sure how much I want to try off-site recruitment, rpgcrossing doesn't sound like a good place for me if there's a big focus on RP and writing since that's not my forte (look at my responses in these games...).

Frank

[Marullus]

Each person that died can make a new character of the same class with +5 Attribute Points for their Karma. (That's my decision, keep it simple.) You mostly had a Ki point, died in battle, and I'm liberally applying "for a good cause" as it was a very honorable death fulfilling your Dharma against an overwhelming threat.

Technically Taka isn't dead. She is still viable as a character (with some more interesting bonds at the moment), and if you'd like to resume playing her, we can work out a few details in the [003a] thread and she can re-enter the story at the same time as the others do. Otherwise, she becomes an NPC and I'll allow you to roll a new Shugenja with 5 Karma anyway.

Decision Point: Now that we have reached this point.... do you want to play again? Do you WANT to re-roll and go on, or is this game complete? I'd like everyone to weigh in, please. It's better not to assume.

Jemmus votes to continue, making a Ninja instead of a Bushi.
Ffilz votes to continue, making a new Buddhist Gakusho.
Mccatty votes to continue, making a new Bushi.
Samwell Turleton mentioned making the older sibling of Souta, a Bushi.

Still waiting on Samwell Turleton deciding the fate of Taka as a PC or NPC.

If you want to play two PCs each and come back with a larger party, that's also good (and perhaps adviseable) - it is certainly easier to distinctly roleplay different PCs on play-by-post than it is as a game table where you need to embody them. Go ahead and make your PCs in Character Generation - Second Generation.

Please also weigh in as players on...

• There's a natural OSR incentive to be the 'next group' hired and return to face the Hag. Do you want to do so?
• Would you rather move to the next arc (where the consequences of failure are realized and the storyline is impacted in that direction?)

[ffilz]

I think the campaign should reflect the failure.

[jemmus]

I'll roll up second character. It will probably be a bushi or a budoka, depending on the birth table roll. I'm working on the first PC (the ninja) ATM.
I don't have a strong preference about continuing or moving on. Both seem interesting, in different ways.

[Marullus]

Mac? Turlton?