OOC Discussion

[Marullus]

Nice and useful insight. Yes, kami are everywhere in Nippon. There are the big and powerful ones such as Fuujin the wind kami, which the PCs have already officially introduced themselves to. And then there are the smaller ones, such as the spirits/energies of certain rivers, mountains, rocks, great old trees, and even stands of bamboo or clumps of bushes. In the more civilized parts of Nippon, Shinto shrines have been built near where these kami reside. Or in the case of Fuujin, in a place that's particularly special to the kami. Sort of its focal point or main physical base in Nippon.

Yeah, not all are big ones. How small do we get on the "everything has a spirit" animism scale?

A Shinto shouldn't lack for things to do or ways to influence if that's true.

On a successful Invoke Kami BCS roll, the bad kami will perk up, watch, and try to glom on and join in. At lower levels, they'll put ideas into the heads of mischievous Nippon beings such as bake, tanuki, kappa, etc. At higher levels of contact, greater and greater levels of contact, and more varied kinds of kami. Good and bad. Placate Kami being useful in either case.

...I would prefer this not be true. Bad things coming from failed rolls is one thing. Bad consequences from good rolls is different and just suppresses the willingness for Taisho to act.

[jemmus]

Nice and useful insight. Yes, kami are everywhere in Nippon. There are the big and powerful ones such as Fuujin the wind kami, which the PCs have already officially introduced themselves to. And then there are the smaller ones, such as the spirits/energies of certain rivers, mountains, rocks, great old trees, and even stands of bamboo or clumps of bushes. In the more civilized parts of Nippon, Shinto shrines have been built near where these kami reside. Or in the case of Fuujin, in a place that's particularly special to the kami. Sort of its focal point or main physical base in Nippon.

Yeah, not all are big ones. How small do we get on the "everything has a spirit" animism scale?


A Shinto shouldn't lack for things to do or ways to influence if that's true.

On a successful Invoke Kami BCS roll, the bad kami will perk up, watch, and try to glom on and join in. At lower levels, they'll put ideas into the heads of mischievous Nippon beings such as bake, tanuki, kappa, etc. At higher levels of contact, greater and greater levels of contact, and more varied kinds of kami. Good and bad. Placate Kami being useful in either case.

...I would prefer this not be true. Bad things coming from failed rolls is one thing. Bad consequences from good rolls is different and just suppresses the willingness for Taisho to act.

I know that the Shinto yamabushi mountain hermit-shamans consider even a pebble to have a little kami spirit. (The book I read explained kami spirit with the English word "numina"). I'm not sure what other Shintoists believe. The smallest kami that Shintoists revere are certain special boulders and trees.

I reconsidered the idea about Invoke Kami attracting bad kami and deleted that part of the post, before I'd read your post. I read through the rules about the kami and Invoke Kami more thoroughly, and the Invoke Kami ability is less powerful than I'd remembered. The effects are pretty limited, and chances of successfully invoking a really powerful kami are low. There would be some "disturbance in The Force" that would draw the attention of good and bad kami. They would note the gakusho, but let's say they wouldn't physically act for or against him. But if a situation comes up in which that kami is involved (a visit to a shrine, a visit to a cursed place, etc.), a kami (randomly) might or might not remember him. So an effect on the kami's attitude, reaction, and a minor change to how GM relates background, clues, etc. to the players. But not an effect that would directly affect physical things (combat, BCS, etc.)

Thoughts?

[Marullus]

What are the bounds to see for a creative Shinto Gakusho? Can he entreat the kami of the mountain to open/close a pathway? Learn secrets from ancestor spirits? Wake the Great Stone Dragon but just end up with Mushu?

[jemmus]

I'd never seen Mulan.
Invoke Kami seems pretty open-ended. But it seems like what can be done depends on some considerations.
The kami's Spirit Rank (how powerful it is compared to other kami).
The kami's specific abilities the kami itself has. Since we've been talking about Fuujin, asking him to start or stop a wind storm might be appropriate. Or asking him what the weather will be like on a given day or week. But asking him for an earthquake wouldn't get anywhere, and might displease him.
How reasonable the request is. I think a request for information or knowledge that the kami would know would almost always be reasonable.

I think there's a lot of room for creativity for the gakusho. I'd probably tend to be generous with what they can do through Invoke Kami, to help balance gakusho's power compared to other professions. And it could really add some interest and fun to the game.

Invoke Kami
Range: Not applicable Power: Kami’s Spirit Rank.
A Gakusho may invoke a #ami to assist him, or others. If invoked
for some purpose displeasing to the Kami, then the diety will
punish the presumptuous priest, at the very least Smiting him with
Awe before departing angrily.

NOTE CAREFULLY: The full Power is expended in this Spell
whether it succeeds or not.

The invocation causes the Kami to pay attention to the Gakusho.
He may then ask a favor, seek to Propitiate the Kami, offer it
something, etc. Invocation simply puts him in contact with the world
of the Kami.

[jemmus]

Completely off topic, but wanted to consult with the experts. I'm a big Robert E. Howard, Conan and the Hyborian Age (the short stories, not the cheesy movies). I'm thinking of starting a Hyborian Age campaign on US, using resources from Modiphius's Conan RPG. I like the Conan 2d20 RPG system, but it might be a little too time-consuming for PBP. It has a system where parties accumulate a pool of Fortune points that players can spend, which is interesting, but the extra step might be a little much for the slow pace of PBP.

Anyone have ideas for an alternate RPG system to use? I considered AD&D 1E, but I think the combat system is too abstract and uninteresting for a Conan-based game. I'd like something with more detailed combat like Bushido has. Any suggestions? A consideration is that magic in the Hyborian Age is slow and subtle. No real active spellcasting, more like ancient spells and curses, accursed places, slow, elaborate conjuring, and such. Actually probably not much of a consideration, because if the PCs won't be throwing around instant spells, the NPCs won't be either. Any ideas or recommendations for a system appreciated.

[ffilz]

Hmm, any good suggestions on some modest reading to get a better feel for Kami? Somehow I suspect a couple answers that are already in my library are Land of the Rising Sun and GURPS Japan... Some of the other Samurai games might also have some good ideas.

[jemmus]

The Sengoku RPG has a good section about Shinto, kami and Shinto clergy. One of the game designers is a professor of medieval Japanese history. There are some free downloads of the PDF out there.

[Marullus]

I recommend looking at Worlds Without Number (you can search it on DriveThruRPG). It is the latest release, following from the experience of Stars Without Number.  It fits in the OSR style but greatly simplifies things while still keeping them crunchy.  It has its own fantasy world (where the nation of Llagis is essentially Conan) but you can ignore that in favor of your own world-building.  If you're looking for level-based, campaign play, this has a lot to offer including a PC-influenceable Faction play system for organizations in the world, a modest approach to magic scaleable to an ability to discover/rebuild magical wonders.


There's also a new game being kickstarted (the PDFs just dropped) that is the The Barbarian's Bloody Quest, from Vincent Baker, the creator of Apocolypse World.  It is not designed for a campaign but for a single story - that of a Barbarian on a quest for vengeance against the sorcerer who ruined his life.  If you're not familiar with the PBTA game format, it is story-driven with no GM-side rolls and thus doesn't resemble OSR games.  It is meant to evoke creative outcomes in cinematic style. A single story with cinematic feel should work well for play-by-post.  


I own a few Conan RPGs in digital copy, but I'm not familiar with them.  I can go rooting through them if you need.  

[jemmus]

Thanks! WWN has 108 5-star reviews on DrivethruRPG and just a few 4-stars. I went ahead and got it during their Black Friday sale.

[ffilz]

The Sengoku RPG has a good section about Shinto, kami and Shinto clergy. One of the game designers is a professor of medieval Japanese history. There are some free downloads of the PDF out there.

Hmm, somehow missed this message... Page references for good stuff on Kami? I read one section and it wasn't quite useful.

It does raise a question - Basic Healing and Shinto purity with regards bloodshed... Is there a problem there? Is Taisho going to have to purify himself after administering healing?

[jemmus]

The part about Shinto starts on page 66 of Sengoku. The really useful part is the explanation about how shrines are organized and staffed. This BBC article has good information about kami and it's pretty short. https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religion ... mi_1.shtml

[Marullus]

It does raise a question - Basic Healing and Shinto purity with regards bloodshed... Is there a problem there? Is Taisho going to have to purify himself after administering healing?

The magical healing is given explicit exception - it is the only way Shunto may aid. (No bandaging or using Physician.)

For Kami...
I don't know Japan. My thoughts are broader.

For "small Kami", general approaches to animism beliefs also are probably worthwhile. (I am not talking to a tree, I am talking to the spirit of the tree... and it has moved its leaves to grant us better cover from this rain.)
"Big Kami" (Gods listed in the Bushido Book II) are hard to get the attention of without building or visiting a shrine to their honor. Building shrines is a good avenue, though!

Though not related to Japan, I think the Umbra guides and materials from Werewolf: the Apocolypse might be helpful. This is fundamentally an animist religious outlook explained to a western audience. (That tree has a spirit, and I'm going to convince it to help us!)

[ffilz]

It does raise a question - Basic Healing and Shinto purity with regards bloodshed... Is there a problem there? Is Taisho going to have to purify himself after administering healing?

The magical healing is given explicit exception - it is the only way Shunto may aid. (No bandaging or using Physician.)

OK, scratch the use of bandages and healing salve... And I guess I should un-purchase them...

For Kami...
I don't know Japan. My thoughts are broader.

For "small Kami", general approaches to animism beliefs also are probably worthwhile. (I am not talking to a tree, I am talking to the spirit of the tree... and it has moved its leaves to grant us better cover from this rain.)
"Big Kami" (Gods listed in the Bushido Book II) are hard to get the attention of without building or visiting a shrine to their honor. Building shrines is a good avenue, though!

Though not related to Japan, I think the Umbra guides and materials from Werewolf: the Apocolypse might be helpful. This is fundamentally an animist religious outlook explained to a western audience. (That tree has a spirit, and I'm going to convince it to help us!)

Burning Wheel also has a spirit magic tradition.

[Marullus]

Burning Wheel also has a spirit magic tradition.

*gasps in delight*
You're right! It has been so many years since anyone played Burning Wheel with me I had quite forgotten. (It's still one of my favorite systems.)

[ffilz]

Burning Wheel also has a spirit magic tradition.

*gasps in delight*
You're right! It has been so many years since anyone played Burning Wheel with me I had quite forgotten. (It's still one of my favorite systems.)

It was a major feature of our Burning Blackmoor campaign. The old polytheism and spirit magic culture vs. the new monotheism and standard sorcery culture...

And yea, I tried to play Burning Wheel here with you...

[Marullus]

Completely off topic, but wanted to consult with the experts. I'm a big Robert E. Howard, Conan and the Hyborian Age (the short stories, not the cheesy movies).

FB_IMG_1638273381920.jpg (36.48 KiB) Viewed 356 times

[jemmus]

Sorry for the delay in posting, everyone. Having an unexpectedly crazy week. Hope to post this evening.

[jemmus]

How to send PMs that are sitting in the Outbox? Just wait for them to move to Sent?

[Marullus]

They stay in the Outbox until they are read. If it moved to sent, it means it was opened.

[jemmus]

Ah. Thanks!