Rules Discussion

[jemmus]

Strategic Movement
Characters move their BMA (Base Movement Allowance) in ri per day. (One ri equals 2.5 miles/4 km).
One hex on the map equals 3 ri. So, a slow-ish char with 3 BMA moves one hex per day. (Actually he wouldn't move the full 3.3 ri across the hex. But the rules "charitably" allow rounding up for strategic movement. So this slowpoke (let's say he's an ox driver) crosses the full hex).

There are, of course, modifiers for terrain.
Travelling on major road: +100% to effective BMA
On minor road: +50% to effective BMA
In Clear Terrain (0-1000‘ above sea level) No effect on BMA
In Rough Terrain (1000-2000’ above sea level) -25% to effective BMA
In Mountainous Terrain -50% to effective BMA (over 2000 above sea level) -50% to effective BMA
Heavy snow on ground -25% to effective BMA

So, an example.
Saburo the oxen driver is traveling along the Koshu-Kaido major road between Edo on the southeast coast and the lowlands of Shinano. His BMA is 3. The Koshu-Kaido is a minor road, so he gets a 50% bonus to movement. So his BMA is 4.5. He's crossed one full hex and we round up, so at the end of the day he's crossed 2 full hexes.

There are weather effect modifiers as well. For now, we're in the early autumn, the clearest, calmest, and most predictable of weathers time in Nippon. Autumn is wonderful. If only it would last forever... but it won't.

[jemmus]

Movement and Attacks
Facing - Changing a character's facing costs one of it BMA.

Close to Engage - Character can move up to 1/2 BMA and execute an attack. It can change facing at any point of the movement, spending 1 BMA. The rules don't say whether chars with multiple Actions per turn get the additional actions. I suppose they do.

Charge - Unengaged char may move up to 2x BMA and execute an attack. The char must begin the turn facing the target; a change of facing is not allowed. The attack happens at the end of the Turn, in Phase 2. Bonuses to BCS and/or damage are implied, but not specifically explained.

[jmacatty]

Omi is going to fire an armor piercer as soon as he reaches point blank range and is eligible to fire. I still have not figured out how to use the dice roller snd would appreciate some advice.

[jemmus]

Here how to roll the dice.
-Click the gold 20-sided in the top corner.
-On the bar at the top of the Dice Roller page, click Characters.
-Click Create a New Character.
-Enter the character's name and the Campaign ID. The ID for this game is 909.
-When you're back on the main page, click Roll the Dice.
-In the Roll on the Fly dropdown, select the character who's rolling.
-Enter the macro for the roll. For example, 1d20 +1 is 1d20+1.
-Your roll will display. I click Copy for PbP Forum Code. There are some other options that I haven't tried.
-Paste into your post. (Inside spoiler tags is preferred in this game but not required).

[jmacatty]

Thanks! Finally figured it out. Needed brackets.

[Marullus]

Charge - Unengaged char may move up to 2x BMA and execute an attack. The char must begin the turn facing the target; a change of facing is not allowed. The attack happens at the end of the Turn, in Phase 2. Bonuses to BCS and/or damage are implied, but not specifically explained.

There is one unique effect of Sumai (which I contemplated using for Kentaro):

Charging into his attack, his Base Movement Allowance is
added to his Strength for purposes of determining damage, if the
attack is successful.
...
If the character Charges into his attack, he may add his Base Movement Allowance to the Effect Number of that Grapple attack.

Charging on a horse has special rules...

Whenever a horse is moving using a Charge or Run Option, there
is a chance that any characters in the horse's path will be ridden
down. The character in the path of the horse must make a Speed
Saving Throw or receive damage as if he had been hit by 4 hooves. In
any case, the character will be thrown to the ground and must make a
Health Saving Throw to avoid a Daze Critical Effect.

Otherwise... Combat modifiers on page 65 say:
+1 BCS bonus for a charging attacker
+2 BCS for targeting someone charging

Charging states it has bonus for both BCS AND damage. The damage calculation says that bonuses to damage step-up the damage die (but doesn't specifically mention Charging). That might be it.

Thoughts?


Losing all secondary actions, going last in the round, and taking a bigger AC penalty than you get hit bonus is pretty tragic. Doubling BMA isn't enough, but double BMA and a step-up on damage die might be.

[jemmus]

Maybe compromise and give non-sumai Charge attacks half of sumai's damage bonus? So half of BMA added to the damage? He have a live-fire example upcoming. Katsumi is in position to Charge the o-bakemono. His BMA is very high (8). If he Charges and hits (with the +1 BCS), he would do +4 damage. As opposed to +8 if it were a sumai attack. In turn, he would give up his two Secondary Actions, and the o-bakemono would get a +2 on its attack BCS.

The other thing limiting Charge attacks is the character must not be Engaged, and they can't change facing. So in a lot of cases, I think a Charge action would require setting it up the turn before. Which would usually mean giving up doing something on that turn. Powerful, but costly in terms of foregone actions.

The proposal of 1/2 BMA for a damage bonus was just arbitrarily picked. What does everyone think?

[Marullus]

Those Sumai-bonuses aren't really generalizable that way.

Charging into his attack, his Base Movement Allowance is added to his Strength for purposes of determining damage, if the attack is successful.

This adds to STR, not to Effect number. That means that every 5 BMA is a +1 damage, generally. Your proposal of adding 1/2 BMA to damage instead would be much, much higher.

If the character Charges into his attack, he may add his Base Movement Allowance to the Effect Number of that Grapple attack.

This is specific to using Sumai to charge into a grapple (which has special moves). The grapple specifically does no damage and needs an Effect Number greater than the victims STR score (which can be quite high), so adding BMA to the Effect Number on this specific instance isn't able to be generalized.

Charging states it has bonus for both BCS AND damage. The damage calculation says that bonuses to damage step-up the damage die (but doesn't specifically mention Charging). That might be it.

As near as I can figure, the bonus to damage implied by changing should be a step-up on die size as described in section 1117.4.

Adding half-BMA to Damage is much more potent, put perhaps worthy as a house rule. In the current scene, that's +2 for Omi, +3 for Kentaro, and +4 for Katsumi. I would agree to it if everyone else does.

[jemmus]

Ah. I think the step up on Step Reduction (and increase) of damage makes much more sense. The rule charted it out and its there for a purpose. But it seems to have been left as for a tool for GM to use per discretion. ​

<---------------------------------------------------->
Reduction - Increase
1 point / 1d3 / 1d5 or 1d6 / 1d10/ 2d6 / 2d10

Bujutsu is very much concerned about adding energy kinetic energy to a strike. If its along the axis of the strike so much the better. But if it comes from forward motion from the legs and the hips, it still adds force (velocity) to the strike. A charge adds quite a bit of momentum force to a strike. 1d10 to damage? 2d6?

Add a step for PC's level after Level 1?

[jemmus]

Earlier we confirmed that shugenja and gakusho don't earn budo from combat. They only earn shugendo from successfully casting spells. the rules say shugendo is earned at the rate of the spell's Knowledge Required/10. Taisho successfully cast Basic Healing. But I don't see a Knowledge Required figure for the spell. The only Knowledge Required figures I see are on p. 68 of the Heros of Nippon book. Basic Healing isn't listed. Only Schools spells are listed.

So:
a) Am I missing something in the rules?
b) If not, do we want to say that shugendo are only earned for those specific spells? Basic Healing is a basic power (starting spell already known) for a gakusho. Do we want to say that shujenja and gakusho don't earn shugendo for successfully using basic power spells?

[Marullus]

Earlier we confirmed that shugenja and gakusho don't earn budo from combat. They only earn shugendo from successfully casting spells.

We confirmed that Shugenja (1063.4a) and Gakusho (1063.4b) have separate rules for shugendo and that Shugenja (not Gakusho) receive the equivalent for the Budo award:

Code: Select all

Overcoming Foe By Magic
If a foe is overcome by a spell, or by the use of a magical artifact,
the magician gains Shugendo equal to the Budo value for
overcoming such a foe OR the Shugendo normally acquired for
successful Spell casting, whichever is higher.

My understanding at the end of discussion was that we'd also allow the house rule for half-xp to the those who don't provide the killing blow to apply to the Shugenja if they use spells as part of overcoming the foe with magic in the battle. I intended to allow that for Ffilz-playing-Taka going forward.

Our Gakusho don't get the same benefit because Gakusho rules don't allow any XP for killing things (being antithetical to belief systems). General rules about getting xp from casting spells is also for Shugenja.

Taisho successfully cast Basic Healing. But I don't see a Knowledge Required figure for the spell.
...Basic Healing is a basic power (starting spell already known) for a gakusho. Do we want to say that shujenja and gakusho don't earn shugendo for successfully using basic power spells?

The Gakusho have a specific rule for getting XP from healing. (Healing, trances, blessings between encounters and then the exorcism/countermagic/banishment in encounters being their main methods.) We definitely do NOT want to say basic powers don't count.

Code: Select all

Healing
Buddhist clergy casting a basic Healing spell receive Shugendo =
(.1 x Level of Spell), if successful. Using a Yoga in Healing receives
Shugendo equal to Knowledge used/100, rounded to the nearest
tenth. Shinto clergy receive a flat 1 Shugendo for Healing as their
doctrines declare the sick and injured to be ritually impure, and thus
they gain less merit for such activity.

Next... deciphering that is not easy.

• They get .1 x level of spell
• ...or Yoga Knowledge/100
• ...which it implies should be higher than 1 because Shinto receive a flat 1 as a lesser amount.

Taisho is a Shinto, so he gets a flat 1 Shugendo for healing.

if he were a buddhist (or if Eiji were to do this as a buddhist in the other chronicle):
Under basic healing, we see that level of spell is the same as character level. So, as 1st level Gakusha Taisho gets .1 Shugendo.
Knowledge in a Yoga: to be consistent with other magic, the initial Knowledge in a Yoga is equal to Wit and then it raised like an skill. (1057.0) If Taisho used this, with his Wit of 20, it would be .2 Shugendo.

...neither of those methods makes sense since it is so much less than a "flat 1" of a Shinto. I am assuming that the award is per hit point healed, then. Taisho-if-buddhist would have healed 7hp which means .7 shugendo with basic healing or 1.4 shugendo with Yoga healing. Honestly, I would also apply a floor of 1 so that a buddhist never gets less than a shinto for a healing action.

[ffilz]

I wonder if that Yoga/100 is probably supposed to be Yoga/10... (otherwise they should have just said "1 if Yoga is 50 or higher"

There's definitely some wonky math...

[Marullus]

I wonder if that Yoga/100 is probably supposed to be Yoga/10... (otherwise they should have just said "1 if Yoga is 50 or higher"

There's definitely some wonky math...

Well, they said "Using a Yoga in Healing receives Shugendo equal to Knowledge used/100, rounded to the nearest tenth." So, it is a sensible equation. Basic Healing is .1 per level of the caster, Yoga Healing has a score between 1-99 and their math with it makes it equivalent. What doesn't make sense is that either calculation comes in way less than 1 and always will, so there has to be a multiplier. I suspect it is the amount of hit points healed. That makes Healing a big thing for a Buddhist Gakusho (which it should be) and a flat 1 per healing action is reasonable for a Shinto Gakusho.

...my big takeaway here for Gakusho is that they have to be specific in seeking XP. Healing, Trance, and Blessings are a big deal but need to be implemented outside of combat which takes some attention and focus on their part. Actual combat benefits everyone but them. As a GM and as a player, I want to make sure I make allowances that the Gakusho gets to do this stuff between encounters. Combat against spiritual creatures or magic is Gakusho domain and helps out, too.

[jemmus]

"Teacher, my head hurts."

It's strange that the rules say that Shinto gakusho don't like dealing with the sick and injured, but then award them more shugendo for basic healing than a Buddhist gakusho can earn. To me 1 shugendo seems like a lot, if we compare to getting 1 budo for fighting and killing a bakemono-sho. (In this game the bakemono-sho happened to roll a critical failure (weapon breaks/disarmed) on the first turn. But otherwise it would have been swinging at Ito). But since gakusho have pretty limited ways to earn shugendo, I suppose we should take the rules as written. So, Taisho gets 1 shugendo for the basic healing. I've updated the house rules post.

Agreed that shugenja and gakusho will need downtime opportunities for researching, etc. All character classes seem to get a lot of benefits from downtime activities.

Healing
Buddhist clergy casting a basic Healing spell receive Shugendo =
(.1 x Level of Spell), if successful. Using a Yoga in Healing receives
Shugendo equal to Knowledge used/100, rounded to the nearest
tenth. Shinto clergy receive a flat 1 Shugendo for Healing as their
doctrines declare the sick and injured to be ritually impure, and thus
they gain less merit for such activity.

[ffilz]

Hmm, I wonder if Shinto Gakusho were supposed to receive a flat .1 Shugendo for healing since obviously the Buddhist Gakusho get Shugendo for healing in .1 increments. Note that with the Yoga, the Buddhist Gakusho can get 1 Shugendo if their Yoga is 95 or higher (.95 round to nearest is 1).

[Marullus]

A single o-bakemono being 1 Bude makes sense, but isn't low. He's not a tremendous threat against a group by himself. The four boars would have been 3 Bude if fought. Using the goal that a 1st level adventure should result in getting to second level by its completion, we all need a mechanism that reaches 10 Bude/Shugendo by the end of the first adventure. For adventure-planning-purposes, I'm not a fan of leaving characters lingering at 1st level with 1 hit die longer than necessary, and most old-school games accommodate that with a low XP requirement to get to second level (Bushido included).

I think the Buddhist healing is meant to be per-hit-point, not per-attempt. For a 1st level Gakusho, that's 1 Shugendo per 10hp healed. I think they're assuming he's going to have to do more than 10hp in healing after a scene (to assume a Shinto only getting 1 Shugendo is less). I think it also balances with the party that greater threats will result in more HP needing to be healed. I like the idea of awarding "at least 1" per scene of healing so a Buddhist doesn't get less than a Shinto and keeps up after a fight that skewed in our favor (as this one did.)

[jemmus]

I like the idea of awarding "at least 1" per scene of healing so a Buddhist doesn't get less than a Shinto and keeps up after a fight that skewed in our favor (as this one did.)

(Not to sidetrack, but I'm going to confess to modifying the encounter because the party had split up. Originally there was something bigger than the bakemono-sho. I powered the encounter down not so much to be soft on the PCs, but because it was an initial experiment learning the combat system for almost all of us. If a PC had gotten killed due to GM misinterpreting or overlooking a rule, that wouldn't have been good at all. Next time, though... full OSR-style, no GM takebacks. )

I agree to the rule about Buddhist gakusho healing being at per-hit-point, not per-attempt. But I'm just one vote.

[ffilz]

I like the idea of awarding "at least 1" per scene of healing so a Buddhist doesn't get less than a Shinto and keeps up after a fight that skewed in our favor (as this one did.)

(Not to sidetrack, but I'm going to confess to modifying the encounter because the party had split up. Originally there was something bigger than the bakemono-sho. I powered the encounter down not so much to be soft on the PCs, but because it was an initial experiment learning the combat system for almost all of us. If a PC had gotten killed due to GM misinterpreting or overlooking a rule, that wouldn't have been good at all. Next time, though... full OSR-style, no GM takebacks. )

I agree to the rule about Buddhist gakusho healing being at per-hit-point, not per-attempt. But I'm just one vote.

I we do it per hit point, Basic Healing maybe shouldn't be .1 per level of spell since it's also 1d6 healing per level of spell.

[Marullus]

I we do it per hit point, Basic Healing maybe shouldn't be .1 per level of spell since it's also 1d6 healing per level of spell.

...I'm not sure. That's a point worth looking at. Let's do math.

• At 1st level, they get 1d6 x .1 and need to reach 10 .1 to .6/heal to 10pts; 17-100 heals.
• At 2nd level, they get 2d6 x .2 and need to reach 50 .4 to 2.4/heal to 40pts; 17-100 heals.
• At 3rd level, they get 3d6 x.3 and need to reach 100 .9 to 5.4/heal to 50pts; 10-56 heals.
• At 4th level they get 4d6 x.4 and need to reach 500 1.6 to 9.6/heal to 400pts; 42-250 heals.
• At 5th level they get 5d6 x.5 and need to reach 1000 2.5 to 15/heal to 500pts; 34-200 heals.

The awards for combat against foes scale up for Budo, with more potent foes in larger groups giving greater rewards. So also does the requirement per-level. Without doing it by hit points healed, the amount received by a Buddhist Gakusho otherwise will not. (The Buddhist is also contingent on his allies becoming injured - pitched battles in their favor give the same Budo but less healing needed.)

Most OSR games have leveling in squares - you need to earn as much for the next level as you've earned in total so far. Bushido isn't that way. It is 5x to reach level 3, then 2x to reach level 4, then 5x to reach level 5, then 2x to reach level 6. So that's not as even level-to-level as expected for an OSR. With healing as a primary function of a Buddhist Gakusho, I don't think it is out of line, either, though. Except for the anomaly going from 3rd to 4th level, the Buddhist Gakusho is going to have to find many things to do besides healing, and the Shinto Gakusho, getting a flat 1/heal, needs to go find a lot of Kami to work with to get levels.

So... this all applies to Eiji in my game but not Taisho in this game. I like the "not less than 1/heal" house rule, I think, which will matter for Eiji at 1st and 2nd level. I reserve judgment on anything beyond that for now and just present math.

[ffilz]

Good point.