"Endgame: OOC Planning Discussion"

[Tiglath]

Indeed, I am a literal literary burlesque...

IC update in a couple of hours.

[joertexas]

Indeed, I am a literal literary burlesque...

IC update in a couple of hours.

Now where did I put that eye bleach?

[BackworldTraveller]

Indeed, I am a literal literary burlesque...

IC update in a couple of hours.

Now where did I put that eye bleach?

Used it to protect against Covid?

[joertexas]

Indeed, I am a literal literary burlesque...

IC update in a couple of hours.

Now where did I put that eye bleach?

Used it to protect against Covid?

[shaidar]

I thought it might be Polly representing the clans.

Tig, are the eights of a black suit? If Erica is going to deal me the dead man's hand then that's a little worrying.

It could be a warning, or a joke, or she's just demonstrating her skills in dealing.

[shaidar]

What do you guys think of the offer?

I think that Erica's hand is a warning that the 1188th is involved sonehow. I also think Keening is hoping we get slaughtered, did SuSAG actually put anything into the offer?

It's been made too good to resist, of course we don't know how many pirates there are and they obviously have ships.

[BackworldTraveller]

Who are we fighting? Not Stated
Where are we fighting? Avastan implied
What are the Military Objectives? None Stated
What are the Political Objectives? Apparently suppression of "Piracy" but by whose definition? And why, if this is affecting hundreds of million of credits of shipping is only 5m being offered?

Does the 5m cover the cost of transport or is it separate to that cost?
Do we have any threat estimate for the opposition's forces?
What is the Avastan Government's involvement?
McLellan benefits. How?
4DC and "The Shore" benefit how by being involved?
Who commands the 4DC, The Shore and the Aslan troops?

How do we get out of the contract? What is a successful completion? What break clauses are there?
Under whose Jurisdiction is the contract being negotiated? The legal court of record looks like SuSAG on this dirtball. That is unlikely to be impartial.

The terms are open ended. We could find ourselves unable to get out of this with no legal recourse.
Piracy is a social issue that is solved by social and political change. Military options are limited to specific raids on defended bases. Tough nuts to crack and typically requiring naval support for heavily armoured vacuum and zero-g trained troops. Given the Merchant interest there will be considerable pressure to skimp recon, attack the front door and take casualties in exchange for time.

The Imperium's definition of Piracy may include troops launched from ships attacking shipping and bases near Avastan. I'd look very carefully at the deniability of this operation as I could see SEMC ending up being branded the pirates if successful.

Government 2 is a democracy. Law 0 is, by implication, a heavily armed one.

API is a Collace corporation with heavy local influence on Collace. We could easily find our Collace assets frozen if we oppose API

What is TTIs involvement in this offer? They'd love a Collace on Collace fight.

[shaidar]

I agree there are plenty of questions.

Also, the rumour is that these pirates are supported unofficially by the Imperials.

This could simply be an attempt to further reduce imperial influence in 268, hence Liv and the delegates are not present.

The joke could be on us.

[BackworldTraveller]

Avastan could easily have the politics that parallel those of Pennsylvania/New Jersey in the 1770s...
...with us as the Hessians

[The Bindoner]

Also, the rumour is that these pirates are supported unofficially by the Imperials.

Since the pirates we fought on Inchin were brought here by our favourite Imperial I think it is safe to say that is more than a rumour.

After that incident there is a lower chance of the Imperium intervening in any obvious way though.

There are, as BwT laid out, a great many questions we need answers to before considering the offer.

We certainly need defined objectives. A specific goal, not something nebulous like "suppressing piracy". Eliminate the pirate base at X would be achievable. Drive the pirates out of Avastan space is not.

We are not Marines, so there had better be a dirtside base to attack or we are at a disadvantage - anything orbital, the defenders go Zero-G and we are ineffective.

The 4DC and Aslan elements are good incentives. Neither would commit to a bad ticket, and their contribution are real force multipliers - they have top-end tech we can't afford yet.

[Leitz]

In addition to the excellent points raised above, I'd add "No, for lots of reasons." I'd also suggest defining the nature of each individuals "contract" with SEMC; my bet is that we have different views of it. Maybe not, but...

[BackworldTraveller]

Freya is not contracted at present. She's paid by the ship

[Tiglath]

Here's some answers possibly even to the Q's you posed working from BT's list.

First off take a look at the political map (but now assume Inchin is Out World/Trexalon Green).

You seem to be in SuSAG's good books currently. It would be fiscally unsound to pay you 5MCr just to do you in. Remember these people have previous for disposing of unwanted/surplus mercs in a much more direct fashion...

Who are we fighting? Avastan have a TL 10 light infantry battalion as a "garrison"at the down port.

Where are we fighting? Avastan one parsec "north"

What are the Military Objectives? see the line I missed out now added IC: a raid within one month to entirely destroy or put beyond use the pirate ground facilities on Avastan.

What are the Political Objectives? Well, who knows?

Why, if this is affecting hundreds of million of credits of shipping is only 5m being offered? Because the shipping (if you can get possession of it intact) is the real prize (in every sense) here.

Does the 5m cover the cost of transport or is it separate to that cost? You are "all found" courtesy of a corporation (McClellan) for transport and strategic comms.

Do we have any threat estimate for the opposition's forces? one static TL 10 Light Infantry Battalion

What is the Avastan Government's involvement? Unknown but their "odd" government might not run the star port

McLellan benefits. How? They are either merchants or part of the Trexalon alliance or both.

4DC and "The Shore" benefit how by being involved? See "the real prize" above and note Duran's comments IC and perhaps pro bono they are eliminating other pirates

Who commands the 4DC, The Shore and the Aslan troops? Someone should ask that!

How do we get out of the contract? It's "Success Only" so once you are in - your're in!

What is a successful completion? Someone's definition of "entirely destroy or put beyond use the pirate ground facilities on Avastan".

What break clauses are there? There's a force majeure clause but that's it.

Under whose Jurisdiction is the contract being negotiated? Standard Imperial Contract Law (used as a baseline in 268).

The terms are open ended. Now clarified "within a month".

We could find ourselves unable to get out of this with no legal recourse. Likely if you sign then bail on the mission. This being the purpose of the contract.

Given the Merchant interest there will be considerable pressure to skimp recon, attack the front door and take casualties in exchange for time. The ball is in your court here.

The Imperium's definition of Piracy... One man's pirate is another's privateer - or pirate hunter.

Government 2 is a democracy. Law 0 is, by implication, a heavily armed one. Avastan is populated by "functionally democratic anarchists" and surprisingly stable outside the star port (which has its garrison).

API is a Collace corporation with heavy local influence on Collace. Historically Collace cut API off ... but may have reinstated their deal - but not officially.

[Tiglath]

Avastan could easily have the politics that parallel those of Pennsylvania/New Jersey in the 1770s...
...with us as the Hessians

I always think there's quite a lot of the (slightly) earlier "Golden Age of Piracy" going on in 268 too.

[Tiglath]

The 4DC and Aslan elements are good incentives. Neither would commit to a bad ticket, and their contribution are real force multipliers - they have top-end tech we can't afford yet.

Yes and yes.

To a degree their presence also keeps SuSAG honest in that both are more than capable of causing SuSAG "significant local difficulties" should their combat elements get abused or abandoned in the operation.

Keening seemed deeply worried that 4DC's unit might get damaged and wreck his balance sheet.

[Leitz]

There are a few of issues for Jakob. First, he is a Domici, and some branches of the family have enough business flexibility to be labelled as pirates by the more hide-bound sorts. Second, Liv need time to recover from recent trauma, and Jakob's plan was to help her make that time. She is his priority. Third, we have a double wedding to tend to.

From a group perspective, how confident are we about what's going on back at Collace? Who was left in charge of ensuring the Bartizan and whatnot were being taken care of? Also, not only does Frank need to ensure that the additional fire teams are under SEMC command, but we need to integrate Gaughan and the new recruits. Some of that can be done in transit, if they're not popsicles.

From an OOC observation of the dialog, I wasn't really impressed by the why things were presented. Also, as noted, we need a lot of intel to even know if this is even possible, much less "you have a chace of surviving".

I guess some of the issues are meta-game. If this is the way to take the game forward, and some things are "assumed", that's one thing. If the game includes assessing risk/reward ratios, then it's something else.

[BackworldTraveller]

Avastans "Pirate Facilities" are its starport. This is owned by API which is Collace. So we'd be fighting off the Pirates based there, and the people of Avastan who need that port for ordinary trade.

And we'd be burning our boats with Collace.

We'd possibly do better going to Collace and getting a contract to protect the speceport at Avastan - That might need a much bigger team though! "Within the month" means they want us to have no option to head to Collace to check on the stupidity of this contract. (Also, note that "Within the month" we are the only option they have - they can't put any other option together within that timeframe. This has to be a put-up job because they have no possible feedback loop in that timeframe)

[Leitz]

What he just said.

[Leitz]

An option, if the meta game stuff pans out, is to send a small team ahead to gather intel.

[shaidar]

I don't understand why there isn't time to return to Collace. 3 hexes to Collace and then 2 to Avastan.