I see a lot of 1E games her so...

[ctcharger]

Can we get speed To hit armor class adjustments for the various weapons. Sure they are a pain but for a PBF game with a nice sheet to track them, they could be fun. Break out the flail when you see someone in plate!

[Zhym]

Is there a game on the forums that actually uses the to-hit vs. AC table? I've been playing AD&D for nearly 40 years (with some breaks) and I don't think I've ever seen that used.

There is a weapon speed entry on the Unseen Servant character sheet.

[GreyWolfVT]

Well and there already is the THAC0 for weapons as well I'm not really sure why that couldn't still apply in 1e. Then again I could just be misunderstanding the suggestion above.

[drpete]

GreyWolfVT, weapon vs armor is an additional layer in 1e d&d that gives each weapon a different bonus/ penalty against each armor class.

All long swords, for example, are +2 to hit vs unarmored fires, but -2 to hit vs plate and shield. A footman's flail is -1 vs unarmored, but +2 vs plate and shield.

It's a full page table in the players handbook, but as Zhym says, it is not often used.

[GreyWolfVT]

GreyWolfVT, weapon vs armor is an additional layer in 1e d&d that gives each weapon a different bonus/ penalty against each armor class.

All long swords, for example, are +2 to hit vs unarmored fires, but -2 to hit vs plate and shield. A footman's flail is -1 vs unarmored, but +2 vs plate and shield.

It's a full page table in the players handbook, but as Zhym says, it is not often used.

Alright thanks for educating me I'm not as knowledgeable in 1e as I am in 2e. I don't see why one couldn't just add this into the notes section of the character sheets then. That is typically what I do with things from 2e that are not part of the sheets.

[ToniXX]

Can we get speed To hit armor class adjustments for the various weapons. Sure they are a pain but for a PBF game with a nice sheet to track them, they could be fun. Break out the flail when you see someone in plate!

Thanks for the suggestion but I'm with Zhym on this: I've never played in a game that uses this table and I don't think I've seen on here on these forums. So, I just don't know if it's worth the effort at this time.

[dmw71]

All long swords, for example, are +2 to hit vs unarmored fires, but -2 to hit vs plate and shield. A footman's flail is -1 vs unarmored, but +2 vs plate and shield.

It's a full page table in the players handbook, but as Zhym says, it is not often used.

Like this:

Weapon vs AC.jpg (158.05 KiB) Viewed 4767 times

I will admit to having attempted to use it (briefly) as a kid when I played with my original group, but found that it bogged the game down quite a bit, and abandoned its use pretty quickly.

They simplified it considerably in 2e:

Weapon vs AC (2e).jpg (65.72 KiB) Viewed 4767 times

But, what functionality would you add to the character sheet? Support for the 1e table? 2e? Both? Honestly, I think, if a DM wants to implement a system like this, it's easy enough to just have a copy of the appropriate table on hand or easily accessible and just manually look up what the adjustment should be... keeping in mind, these adjustments are meant to only be against opponents wearing armor, and not natural ACs. I'm sure the rule exists in 1e as well, but here it is in 2e:

Natural Armor.jpg (18.92 KiB) Viewed 4767 times

Because this rule is used so infrequently, and because it is so edition-specific, I agree that this might not be worth the effort.

[ctcharger]

I will counter with, because Gary said so!

fine fine, I will add it to the notes section as someone mentioned.

However, when your 2 handed sword wielding 18/00 Plate Mailed Paladin goes down under a flurry of blows from bo staff stick (-9!) wielding kobolds, you may want to reconsider.

I never knew it was part of the core 1E rules until I heard it on a podcast. I figured they were wrong, something from ODD or some splat book. I must have read past it 100X back in the day.

[Rex]

We tried it in the group I was playing with when it first came out, used it a couple of times decided it was a waste of time and moved on. As far as Gary goes, he admitted in an interview about the rules they used in his own campaign that he never used the weapons against armor rules. He added them to address the combat wasn't realistic enough complaint that was going around in the late 70's. In fact he never used individual weapon damage either, just plain old everything does 1d6.

[ctcharger]

I wondered if he even used the disease rules....

My whole 1E experience has been a lie...

I give up...

[Rex]

Actually I don't think he ever used anything other than the LLB is his own campaign. Everything after that he only used personally in tournaments. Don't forget that for him, this was also a business and his lively hood.

[dmw71]

I wondered if he even used the disease rules...

We probably used the disease rules as often as we did the weapon vs armor type table.

[ctcharger]

Anyone still have their circular slide rule thingy from one of the Dragon magazines? I have to go find mine again, I found it about a year ago and put it somewhere where it would be safe. Where that is exactly, I am not quite sure... I love stuff like that, with computers now and all, those mechanical devices used to solve problems are pretty much unicorns.

I remember watching a video of a WW2 torpedo director and hit showed how the various pieces were used to estimate a differential equation. I think calculus would be easier to learn if they showed kids how the various operations can be estimated with mechanical devices.

[drpete]

Well, I know "sig figs" would be easier to motivate if they were doing math with a slide rule...

I've read that pirates wore eye patches because of eye damage caused by using sextant navigation...

I played with hit locations, ablative armor as damage reduction, opposed attack/ defense rolls, arms law/claw law, etc, but had no idea how to use weapons vs armor tables back in the 80s.

[ctcharger]

CCexample.jpg (442.34 KiB) Viewed 4499 times

Have not found mine yet but here it is, the Fighting Wheel!

Here is some examples of using gears and the like to represent math concepts...


https://betterexplained.com/articles/de ... wer-chain/

[ctcharger]

Some other to to hit tables based on armor and weapon used...

seems to have fallen away but was the thing back in the day

combattableGammaworldCapture.JPG (42.56 KiB) Viewed 4498 times

combattableTraveller.JPG (74.24 KiB) Viewed 4498 times

[Starbeard]

Nagora at Dragonsfoot made a pretty cool 'unified combat table' for first edition, linked in his signature: https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... s#p1908681

(Here's the link to the actual chart: http://www.2worthingtons.net/downloads/newcombat.pdf)

The trick is to flip the tables around: there's just one combat table, weapon vs AC, and the modifiers come from characters class and level, which he calls the character's Combat Level (so a thief starts at +0 CL and gets +1 every four levels). The numbers all come out the same, but everything's been reduced to one table. Really nifty.

[ctcharger]

That's pretty cool, gotta love the Footman's Flail!