Checking Interest: Castles & Crusades - Umbrage Saga(CLOSED)

[mithrandir138]

I am not committing to anything yet, but I haven't played Castles & Crusades in a while, and I have the Umbrage Saga boxed set just sitting here. I have been thinking about running a game and I just want to see if anyone likes this system and would like to jump into this campaign in a little while. I have to do some preparations and ensure that I can meet my other commitments before I jump into it. Maybe if enough people show interest, this will be the catalyst.

Let me know!

[max_vale]

I'm definitely interested!

[Vargr1105]

I would recommend posting some more info about the main differences between C&C and AD&D, as I think most folks are not very familiar with the specifics (I include myself in this group). Some blurb about the Saga itself would also be useful. Those will help prospective players make up their mind if they would like to join or not.

[mithrandir138]

By request, here is a quick elevator speech....

What is the Umbrage Saga?

An adventure series that starts at level 1 with an introductory adventure that is perfect for first time players. The first adventure is basically a bounty-hunt for a Gnoll who has been running amok around a settlement in a frontier region that is known to have bandits, raiders, and other creatures populating it. It expands from there into a much deeper plot (which I will likely embellish, as needed if it turns into a longer running campaign.)

What is Castles & Crusades?

Short/TLDR answer:
Basically it's a rules-light system with Old School feel and sensibilities with Newer School rule mechanics from Troll Lord Games. If you are influenced by such things: Gary Gygax, shortly before his death, was developing material for the system (most notably a redo of Castle Greyhawk named Castle Zagyg), gave the system praise, as well as writing for their in-house magazine "The Crusader." Basically strip d20 of skills and feats, tack on a super simple resolution mechanic based on attributes and put an old school aesthetic on it -- you get something that looks like Castles & Crusades (aka: the SIEGE engine)

Long Answer/Basic System Details:

Combat:
(stolen from quickstart rules -- link below)
Combat occurs in rounds. Each participant acts in an order established by the roll
of a die (d10), called initiative. Characters take an action like moving, attacking
and opponent, quaffing a potion, or casting a spell. When a character swings or
engages in melee, the player rolls a die (d20) to hit the opponent. If the resulting
number is greater than the armor class of the character’s opponent, a hit is scored.

If the hit is successful, damage is determined. If a character casts a spell, the affects
occur immediately unless noted otherwise in the spell description. Creatures
follow the same procedure, only the Castle Keeper manages those actions

Attribute Checks:
The resolution mechanic (generally for non-combat actions) is based on attribute scores. Each character chooses which attributes are their "primary" attributes. One is determined by your class (ex: Fighter/Strength, Rogue/Dex, etc. there aren't any surprises) and the rest are determined by the player -- Demi-humans get 1 more and Humans get 2.

(stolen from quick start rules -- link below)
Every check has an associated attribute. Whenever one of these checks is made,
a d20 is rolled by the player. Attribute and level modifiers are added to this roll,
if applicable. If the result is equal to or greater than a number generated by the
Castle Keeper, called the challenge class, then the attribute check is successful.
The challenge class is a number generated by the Castle Keeper that represents
the degree of difficulty for performing that action. The challenge class is
generated in two steps. The first is ascertaining the challenge base. This is
determined by whether or not the associated attribute is a primary or secondary
one. If the associated attribute is a primary attribute, the challenge base is 12 and
if it is a secondary attribute, the challenge base is 18. Next, the Castle Keeper
adds or subtracts the challenge level to the challenge class. The challenge level
represents the degree of difficulty the Castle Keeper believes appropriate for the
action being taken. This usually ranges between 0 and 10, but can go higher.
The sum total is the challenge class, and the player must roll higher than that to
successfully perform the action.

For example, a 3rd level elf ranger with a 15 wisdom as a primary attribute
attempts to track a pair of wily kobolds through a mountain pass. The
player rolls a d20 and adds the ranger’s level (+3), attribute modifier
(+1) and racial bonus (none) to the roll. If the number generated is equal
to or higher than the challenge class determined by the Castle Keeper, the
attempt is successful and the ranger is able to track the kobolds to their
secret lair. The challenge class is the combination of the challenge base
(12) and the challenge level (assume a 3 as the trail is a few days old)
for a total of 15. The player rolls a 13 and adds 4 for a total of 17. This is
greater than the 15 necessary so the ranger successfully tracks the kobolds
to their dark and foreboding lair atop craggy hill.


Quick Start Rules: http://www.trolllord.com/downloads/pdfs ... artpdf.pdf

[Dogma]

I would be interested. I've read a bit about he system but haven't had a chance to play it.

[NJWilliam]

Interested here. I've looked through the system but not played it yet.

[mithrandir138]

Wow, this had more interest than I thought it would. So, am I counting 3 or 4 so far? I will leave this thread to make sure people see it and then post an official LFP to round out the group.

So far:
max_vale - Interested
Vargr1105 - Maybe (?)
NJWilliam - Interested
Dogma - Interested

Now we need to figure out how to get you guys up to speed and get some more rules in your hands within the bounds of "fair use" or something. I want to make sure that TLG gets their money (they are a small company with great guys, and Castles & Crusades is a "current" product) but I also think I can share excerpts of a PDF within the group. I am not trying to be over-sensitive or anything, I just want to make sure I do the right thing. I am not naive enough to think you guys can't "find" this stuff if you were so inclined, I just don't want to encourage it. I will just say, if you like it, please support them.

For now I would suggest to just read the quickstart rules and think about what Race/Class you might like to play. Here are the options, I can provide more specific info if you need it.

Race/Class Info (Beyond the Quickstart Rules)

STR Prime:
Fighter
Ranger

DEX Prime:
Rogue
Assassin

CON Prime:
Barbarian
Monk

INT Prime:
Wizard
Illusionist

WIS Prime:
Cleric
Druid

CHA Prime:
Knight
Paladin
Bard


NOTE: There are other Racial Traits, etc. beyond what is listed, but I am trying to be brief --

Dwarf:
TYPICAL CLASSES: Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Cleric, Bard
ATTRIBUTE MODIFIERS: +1 Constitution, -1 Dexterity
ROGUE AND ASSASSIN MODIFIER: +2 find traps in structures only

Elf:
TYPICAL CLASSES: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Wizard, Druid, Knight, Bard
ATTRIBUTE MODIFIERS: +1 Dexterity, -1 Constitution
RANGER MODIFIER: +2 move silent, +2 to find traps
ROGUE AND ASSASSIN MODIFIER: +2 listen, +2 move silent, +2 find traps

Gnome:
TYPICAL CLASSES: Rogue, Illusionist, Druid, Bard
ATTRIBUTE MODIFIERS: +1 Intelligence, -1 Strength
ROGUE AND ASSASSIN MODIFIER: +3 listen

Half-elf:
CLASSES: Any
RANGER MODIFIER: +2 move silent, +2 find traps
ROGUE AND ASSASSIN MODIFIER: +2 listen (elf lineage), +2 find traps, +2 move silent

Halfling:
TYPICAL CLASSES: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Cleric, Druid, Bard
ATTRIBUTE MODIFIERS: +1 Dexterity, -1 Strength
RANGER MODIFIER: +2 conceal, +2 move silent
ROGUE AND ASSASSIN MODIFIER: +2 hide, +2 move silent

Half-orc:
TYPICAL CLASSES: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Assassin, Barbarian, Monk, Cleric, Knight
ATTRIBUTE MODIFIERS: +1 Constitution, +1 Strength, -2 Charisma
RANGER MODIFIER: +2 track

Human:
PRIMARY ATTRIBUTES: Because of the unique nature of humankind,
humans choose an additional primary attribute, for a total of three.
TYPICAL CLASSES: Any
ATTRIBUTE MODIFIERS: None

[NJWilliam]

FYI I have copies of the Player's Handbook and CK Guide that I purchased from rpgnow.

But, to save me time scouring them, is it correct that there are not any minimum scores to qualify for any of the classes, you can freely choose class and then class determines one of your primary attributes?

[mithrandir138]

Subject: Checking Interest: Castles & Crusades - Umbrage Saga

FYI I have copies of the Player's Handbook and CK Guide that I purchased from rpgnow.

But, to save me time scouring them, is it correct that there are not any minimum scores to qualify for any of the classes, you can freely choose class and then class determines one of your primary attributes?

I shall covet your copy of the CKG, I have yet to buy one. (It was "coming out soon" for the longest time, and the player's handbook has DM guidelines -- IMHO it's more of a "Unearthed Arcana" for C&C.)

Regarding attribute scores: I believe you are correct regarding pre-requisites (there seem to be none). I have never seen such restrictions, nor played with anyone who put any prerequisites in place. The standard attribute generation rules say to roll 3d6 and place the scores wherever you want them (as opposed to "Down The Line") -- Obviously, It would stand to reason that you should put your highest scores in your primary attributes, but you can make whatever "type" of character you want if you want to roleplay it. (A stronger than average wizard, a smart barbarian, etc.) I believe I have seen some sort of guidelines for the DM/CK to make modifications to "Challenge Level" based on "role" and not to just let the attribute scores be the end-all-be-all when someone has a higher-than-average score, but its not their primary attribute.

The best way to think about prime attributes is: If I make an attribute my primary, the base traget number for a check against that attribute is 12. If it's not a primary attribute (called "secondary") the base target is 18. The idea is not to roll an attribute check every time something is to be accomplished -- it's more about doing checks if it is "difficult" or some random chance is needed. I have seen people overuse checks and it makes me mad, so I am very sensitive to game-ruining dicerolling -- (The worst I have seen someone do are perception checks for something right in front of your face. Like a broken down carriage in the middle of the road you are walking down. You kidding me?)

[max_vale]

Mithrandir: I have both the originial gold/yellow Player's Handbook and the later Green Player's Handbook. Did you have a preference for which one to use?

The primary differences are with the Barbarian class and the descriptions/names of some of the spells; particularly Illusionist spells.

At the moment....if this game happens; I'm leaning towards reviving by old Half-Orc Cleric/Thief character; so I don't think it much matters to my character; but it certainly might for others!

[mithrandir138]

Mithrandir: I have both the originial gold/yellow Player's Handbook and the later Green Player's Handbook. Did you have a preference for which one to use?

Let's tentatively plan on the 4th printing. (Green cover, 2009)

[max_vale]

Rgr that.

[NJWilliam]

Mine is 5th printing, do you know if there are any significant changes between 4th and 5th?
(don't change on my account, I'm flexible)

[mithrandir138]

Mine is 5th printing, do you know if there are any significant changes between 4th and 5th?

According to this thread, no -- 5th edition is just prettier (better layout and colors), it seems:
http://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewtop ... =5&t=12280

[Mondego]

I don't have any of the books but I would be interested. I found the QuickStart rules on the TLG site. Are they sufficient?

[mithrandir138]

I don't have any of the books but I would be interested. I found the QuickStart rules on the TLG site. Are they sufficient?

They are sufficient to get you exposed to the ruleset. I can fill in the gaps, if you need. It appears that more of us have some exposure to the system as well, so if you have a specific question just ask. The idea of this thread was to get a feel for the interest in playing a game, and we aren't rushing in at the moment. It seems like we may have enough people to fire up a game, so it may be time for me to start putting more effort into this

Don't sweat it, the system is very "rules light", the first adventure is introductory-level, and I have no problem teaching you what you want to know about the system as we go.

[ToniXX]

I've always wanted to check out C&C. This is not a commitment, but put me down for a maybe.
As a player, is this what I'd need?
http://www.trolllord.com/store/product_ ... ucts_id=97

Thanks!

[moorcrys]

Hey,

Saw the message for this on Dragonsfoot. I'd be interested in joining a C&C game. I have the 4th printing of the rulebook and while I haven't played C&C in a few years I have played it before.

Cheers.

[mithrandir138]

I've always wanted to check out C&C. This is not a commitment, but put me down for a maybe.
As a player, is this what I'd need?
http://www.trolllord.com/store/product_ ... ucts_id=97

Cool! Yes, the PHB is all you would need, I could even walk you through some stuff if you need. I am trying to keep it simple.

[mithrandir138]

Saw the message for this on Dragonsfoot. I'd be interested in joining a C&C game. I have the 4th printing of the rulebook and while I haven't played C&C in a few years I have played it before.

Cool. I had no idea this was posted to Dragonsfoot 4th printing is what we are tentatively planning on using, though the 5th printing seems to be OK, too, as purportedly no changes to rules were made.