Starting a new character...

[Zizzle]

I just wanted to toss this out there and see what folks make of it.

First, if most people are like me they hate rolling horrible starting stats when creating a new character. They hate being forced to choose between two classes they do not want to play when there was a third one in mind they rather enjoy. As part of my ongoing project to create dungeon-mastering tools, and player's reference sheets or more like a player viewer that shows them where they are, what they got, as well as all the nitty-gritty equipment, gold and whatnot. But I digress...

Starting a character.

Oh there are so many ways I've seen this done, with various rules, limitations and in a slew of completely different games. My biggest problem has always been nobody wants to start out with a character that cannot fight his way out of a wet paper bag. Sadly, that will often be true when resorting to a limited number of dice rolls, or applying archaic limits or exceptions to them. I have been mulling around this idea for some time, and came up with what I believe is a sound method that achieves a little bit of everything that a character in a role-playing game ought to be subject to. Namely, a solid stat (or 2) that makes them shine a bit above the average mortals, and in converse a stat (or 2) that is the character's bane stat(s).

Here goes! One caveat... the following numbers are based on SEVEN stats, not SIX. More on that at a later date...

Each character starts out with 82 total points that they can allocate to their stats.
Each character starts out with a flat 3 in each stat.
Each point allocated to a stat will raise it by ONE point until that stat reaches 10.
Each point allocated between 11-12 will deduct TWO points from the total.
Each point allocated between 13-14 will deduct THREE points from the total.
Each point allocated between 15-16 will deduct FOUR points from the total.
Each point allocated between 17-18 will deduct FIVE points from the total.
No more than TWO stats can be above 16.
No more than TWO stats can be below 8.
All stats must fall within the 3-18 range. Race modifiers will be applied afterward.

The bonus of stats themselves will be calculated by using the following formula: (<stat> minus 10 divided by 2 rounded down). A stat of 3 == (3-10)/2 for a bonus (or penalty in this case) of -3. A 15 stat will be (15-10)/2 == +2 bonus for that stat.

Well there you have it! Toss your darts, tear it up, play with the possibilities and let me know if this is something that would have merit to potential players. As I said earlier, the above numbers are based on a SEVEN stat system I am devising, so imagine that there was another stat beside the usual SIX for determining a base characters primary attributes.

[onlyme]

It sounds harsh at first glance. An 18 would cost 35 pts. 9s would have a penalty.

Not sure you can have the base at 10 with only 82 pts.

[Zizzle]

It sounds harsh at first glance. An 18 would cost 35 pts. 9s would have a penalty.

Not sure you can have the base at 10 with only 82 pts.

You should be able to have a base 10 in all stats (7) with 33 points left over. You start out with 3 in each stat (free) and only need 7 points in each stat to get to 10 in each.

It may be a little harsh, but that is because you must make choices somewhere to sacrifice for a really good stat, or 2. The idea here is to be able to tailor a character to your style.

10-11 is also what I use as a mid-point for stats. So that being a 10-11 is average and incur no bonuses or penalties. I suppose I could adjust the formula so that a 9 ain't a penalty, but that would cause problems for a max stat of 18 being the same bonus as a 17. I didn't want that.

Thanks for looking into this!

[rredmond]

Wow Z, alot of thought went into this. Gonna have to mull it over, looks real interesting though. I've seen point-buy systems before, but none like this.

[Alethan]

I dont know...

It seems like... A lot of extra work. It takes the randomness completely out of it, as well.

But here's the thing for me. I don't ever go into a game saying, "THIS is the class I'm going to play in this campaign and I won't be happy if I have to play something else." I might try to see if I can work a certain class into the stats I have, but more likely than not, I'm going to take the rolls I have and figure out what race and class will get the most benefit from those rolls.

I understand that isn't how everyone approaches the subject; it is just how I do. Before our DM abandoned us, look at how our Iron Wolf campaign went. My dwarf had crap stats, but I played him for over two years. And had a ton of fun doing it.

I also don't think having mostly mediocre scores is a game killer. I mean, look at how Gary and his crew did it for years. Guarantee most of the people they rolled up didn't have amazing stats.

If it is important for a person to have a few better than average stats to make them feel like they have a viable character, then let them reroll the dice. Have them reroll all six stats over until they get at least two stats with 15 or higher. But make the stat roll order nonadjustable or... Penalize them in some other way to pay homage to the player who rolls his stats once and works with those rolls.

Or, even easier, just tell the player to assign their character stats. Tell them they get one chance to do it, and if you, the DM, think they make the character too unevenly built, then the character gets trashed and the player gets 3d6 rolled six times and that is their stats, in order, if they want to play the game you are running.

I don't see any problem at all with the last method. Or maybe if the player REALLY wants to play a ranger, then they can start off with a character that has just the minimum stat scores to play that class. The rest of the stats are figured with 3d6 dice rolls, in order, not adjustable.

Hmmm... I like that idea. You can certainly play the class you want! You aren't going to be the best character in that class, but you are guaranteed to play the class you want.

Regardless, I think the stats are like maybe 30% of how fun a game is or can be. It is more a matter of how much energy the players are going to invest in their character and the game. In other words, the effort you put into a game has a greater impact on the game than the physical stats your character has.

[rredmond]

Sort of along that line of thinking above. When I've done the "I want to play a certain class" thing, what I usually do (agreed upon by all) is the normal (for me) 4d6 drop the lowest. Then you arrange to try and get that character. If you don't have the scores, then we can make adjustments, as long as the highest scores are where they should be.

Bad explaination. Let me use an example, I really want to play a Paladin, I don't get a 17, as a matter of fact the highest score I have is a 15. You can't use that 15 anywhere else than Charisma, then we'll boost it to 17 and you use the rest of the rolled scores. Honestly I think I've done this once, but it worked.

Normally I'm of the mind just play what I rolled. It's funny, the last two characters I rolled, one had an 18 and two 17s, the other I did 3d6 in order and has one 12. I'm having a kick with the 3d6 in order character (he's a cleric) while I'm nervous about playing the halfling thief with the kick @$$ stats... that's always the type of character the DM wants to kill, you know!

[onlyme]

I'm having a kick with the 3d6 in order character (he's a cleric) while I'm nervous about playing the halfling thief with the kick @$$ stats... that's always the type of character the DM wants to kill, you know!

This is the most important part....The DM can mysteriously level the playing field one way or the other. So in the end, it doesnt matter how the scores are created.

[rredmond]

My 8yo had three great quotes when we played (a much scaled down) EX1 Dungeonland on Tuesday. The one that fits here is something I told her a long time ago: When the DM smiles - its already too late.

The other two were all her.
After rolling a 4 to detect secret doors: You never roll a one when you need it!
After being asked when she was going to use her one MU spell: When it suits my purposes.

She tried to change it to "our purposes" right after, but we all knew we'd caught her.

[onlyme]

My 8yo had three great quotes when we played (a much scaled down) EX1 Dungeonland on Tuesday. The one that fits here is something I told her a long time ago: When the DM smiles - its already too late.

The other two were all her.
After rolling a 4 to detect secret doors: You never roll a one when you need it!
After being asked when she was going to use her one MU spell: When it suits my purposes.

She tried to change it to "our purposes" right after, but we all knew we'd caught her.

Those are great...
My 8 and 10 year olds just want to kill monsters. They dont care what kind or what the odds. They attack with swords first, ignoring all strategy. (though I guess that is a strategy, albeit a bad one most times.)

and detect secret doors? if they are important, they should be there in the open...
And the one MU spell... gone the first monster they saw.

But... the DM was smiling.

[rredmond]

Heh, sorry to continue the thread jack. But my 10yo tries thinking her way through things at first, but will result to the bold frontal assault. My 8yo likes playing thieves and MUs because she likes to be protected and has, on two occasions, left her sister's character to die when she runs away saving her own characters hide.

[Zizzle]

Sort of along that line of thinking above. When I've done the "I want to play a certain class" thing, what I usually do (agreed upon by all) is the normal (for me) 4d6 drop the lowest. Then you arrange to try and get that character. If you don't have the scores, then we can make adjustments, as long as the highest scores are where they should be.

Bad explaination. Let me use an example, I really want to play a Paladin, I don't get a 17, as a matter of fact the highest score I have is a 15. You can't use that 15 anywhere else than Charisma, then we'll boost it to 17 and you use the rest of the rolled scores. Honestly I think I've done this once, but it worked.

Normally I'm of the mind just play what I rolled. It's funny, the last two characters I rolled, one had an 18 and two 17s, the other I did 3d6 in order and has one 12. I'm having a kick with the 3d6 in order character (he's a cleric) while I'm nervous about playing the halfling thief with the kick @$$ stats... that's always the type of character the DM wants to kill, you know!

Hehe, a DM can always find a way to kill you!

But back to the point at hand... it was my intent to allow players to design their characters and create something they would enjoy playing. Taking the randomness out at this point is critical because if the player feels they have a crappy character to start, they are less likely to enjoy the ride. That does not mean those that rather have total randomness cannot do so. They can if they are using a point allocation system, with it limits and restrictions.

I am surprised to hear that people rather have it completely random, but yet make all kinds of exceptions when they do not like the numbers, or the number to align to the stats they rather have. It has been my experience that player will have a particular favorite class they like to play, and usually try to make a character along those lines. It is probably why it makes sense to allow a player to actually choose a race and not have that randomly determined. I cannot imagine forcing a player to play an elven wizard (because the rolls determined it) when they really love and want to play a dwarven fighter.

Usually what happened, is the player will find a way to kill the character, or whine for better rolls or basically lose interest and leave the campaign. Or in the case of totally randomizing the rolls to stats... a request for a reroll, and reroll, and reroll...

I guess my take on it is that there is plenty of dice rolling throughout the game, and would like players who start out happy about having the character of their choice.

THEN, I kill them!

However, I will ponder the thoughts put forth above by everybody and consider this some more. Thanks for your input!

[dmw71]

When the DM smiles - its already too late.

This is too funny.