In 2E, if a monster that can become invisible at-will attacks, does it become visible?
My group is currently battling an imp, which wisely used is at will ability to turn itself invisible. It attacked, and I was asked if this (the attack) caused it to become visible.
I don't have any experience with invisibility, but did a bit of research this morning, which I detailed here:
viewtopic.php?p=170416#p170416
Let's talk about it, though. Feel free to share your interpretations and thoughts.
Here is what I am basing my initial ruling on:
Dungeon Master Guide > Chapter 13 > Vision and Light > Invisibility > Detecting Invisible Creatures
Detecting Invisible Creatures
Invisible creatures and things are not detectable by normal sight or by infravision. They do not create any significant distortion or haze pattern that can be noted. However, invisible creatures aren't completely undetectable. First, things still cling to them. Flour thrown into the air is useful for this purpose, although it can be easily covered, washed off, or brushed away. Second, they do not leave invisible footprints. Again, flour on the floor is a good way to spot the movement of invisible creatures.
The effects of specific environments are more subtle. Fog and smoke do not reveal invisible creatures. Smoke and fog are filled with swirls and eddies, preventing the creature from being detected. Invisible creatures completely submerged in liquids are also concealed; there is no hollow space or "air bubble'' to reveal the creature's presence. At the surface, an invisible swimmer may be noticed by the observant as an unusual distortion of the waves.
Invisible creatures are not automatically silent. An invisible fighter in plate mail still clanks and rattles as he moves, a dead giveaway to most creatures. They still have scent, so creatures with keen noses can smell them. Indeed, blind, or nearly blind, creatures are unaffected by invisibility.
A detect magic shows only the presence of something magical without pinpointing it exactly. Thus, it cannot be used as a substitute for a detect invisible spell. Furthermore, while an actual light source may be invisible, the light emanating from it is not. This can reveal the location of an invisible character.
When the DM thinks there is minor but sufficient cause for a creature to detect an invisible character, a saving throw vs. spell should be made (secretly if the DM is checking for a player character). A minor cause might be a strange odor, small noise, an object that disappeared when it shouldn't have, or a strange reaction from another person (who has been pushed, kicked, poked, etc., by the invisible character). Such a saving throw should be allowed for each new event. A wolf would get a save when it detected a strange scent, then shortly after when it heard a stick break, and finally a last chance when the character drew his sword from his scabbard. Furthermore, the acuity of the creature's senses and its general intelligence can increase or decrease the frequency of checks, at the DM's discretion.
If the suspicious creature or character rolls a successful saving throw, he detects some small sign of the invisible foe's presence. He knows its general location, but not its exact position. He can attack it with a -4 penalty on his chance to hit. If the check fails, the creature or character is unaware of the invisible opponent until it does something else that might reveal its presence.
Of course, a revealing action (which could range from an attack to tripping over a pile of pots) immediately negates the need for a saving throw. In such cases, the character has a pretty good idea that something is not right and can take actions to deal with the situation.
Finally, even if an invisible character is suspected, this does not mean the character will be instantly attacked. The result, especially for less intelligent creatures, may only be increased caution. Having scented the intruder, the wolf bristles and growls, protecting its cubs. The rattlesnake will give its warning rattle. Even the orcs may only circle about warily, alert for an ambush.
The above doesn't state that the creature becomes visible, but its attack (revealing action) does negate the need for a saving throw (with the saving throw being used to "detect" an invisible creature in the first place). Because the group is aware that the imp is there, and knows this general location to focus their attacks (but not the exact position), any attack would be made with the standard -4 penalty on their to-hit roll.
Again, feel free to disagree. We can definitely discuss this before moving forward.
The fact that this question was asked makes me think I missed something, or don't understand something, which is entirely possible (if not likely) since I have zero prior experience when it comes to invisibility. After doing a bit of research this morning, I'm leaning towards no, that the imp does not reveal itself.Storm11 wrote:Did the imp break its invisibility when it attacked Festus again?
Let's talk about it, though. Feel free to share your interpretations and thoughts.
Here is what I am basing my initial ruling on:
Dungeon Master Guide > Chapter 13 > Vision and Light > Invisibility > Detecting Invisible Creatures
Detecting Invisible Creatures
Invisible creatures and things are not detectable by normal sight or by infravision. They do not create any significant distortion or haze pattern that can be noted. However, invisible creatures aren't completely undetectable. First, things still cling to them. Flour thrown into the air is useful for this purpose, although it can be easily covered, washed off, or brushed away. Second, they do not leave invisible footprints. Again, flour on the floor is a good way to spot the movement of invisible creatures.
The effects of specific environments are more subtle. Fog and smoke do not reveal invisible creatures. Smoke and fog are filled with swirls and eddies, preventing the creature from being detected. Invisible creatures completely submerged in liquids are also concealed; there is no hollow space or "air bubble'' to reveal the creature's presence. At the surface, an invisible swimmer may be noticed by the observant as an unusual distortion of the waves.
Invisible creatures are not automatically silent. An invisible fighter in plate mail still clanks and rattles as he moves, a dead giveaway to most creatures. They still have scent, so creatures with keen noses can smell them. Indeed, blind, or nearly blind, creatures are unaffected by invisibility.
A detect magic shows only the presence of something magical without pinpointing it exactly. Thus, it cannot be used as a substitute for a detect invisible spell. Furthermore, while an actual light source may be invisible, the light emanating from it is not. This can reveal the location of an invisible character.
When the DM thinks there is minor but sufficient cause for a creature to detect an invisible character, a saving throw vs. spell should be made (secretly if the DM is checking for a player character). A minor cause might be a strange odor, small noise, an object that disappeared when it shouldn't have, or a strange reaction from another person (who has been pushed, kicked, poked, etc., by the invisible character). Such a saving throw should be allowed for each new event. A wolf would get a save when it detected a strange scent, then shortly after when it heard a stick break, and finally a last chance when the character drew his sword from his scabbard. Furthermore, the acuity of the creature's senses and its general intelligence can increase or decrease the frequency of checks, at the DM's discretion.
If the suspicious creature or character rolls a successful saving throw, he detects some small sign of the invisible foe's presence. He knows its general location, but not its exact position. He can attack it with a -4 penalty on his chance to hit. If the check fails, the creature or character is unaware of the invisible opponent until it does something else that might reveal its presence.
Of course, a revealing action (which could range from an attack to tripping over a pile of pots) immediately negates the need for a saving throw. In such cases, the character has a pretty good idea that something is not right and can take actions to deal with the situation.
Finally, even if an invisible character is suspected, this does not mean the character will be instantly attacked. The result, especially for less intelligent creatures, may only be increased caution. Having scented the intruder, the wolf bristles and growls, protecting its cubs. The rattlesnake will give its warning rattle. Even the orcs may only circle about warily, alert for an ambush.
The above doesn't state that the creature becomes visible, but its attack (revealing action) does negate the need for a saving throw (with the saving throw being used to "detect" an invisible creature in the first place). Because the group is aware that the imp is there, and knows this general location to focus their attacks (but not the exact position), any attack would be made with the standard -4 penalty on their to-hit roll.
Again, feel free to disagree. We can definitely discuss this before moving forward.
Does anyone have any thoughts or other interpretations they're willing to share?
