Q&A: All things out of character continued again

[shaidar]

Ed

I will go through each item with you this week.


I presume we will again find someone to identify magical items etc?

Also, gang, we can split the cost for the identifying of each item?

Ed, I took Animal Handling as my new NWP which kind of makes sense.

I agree it makes sense to share item id costs. In the future it might make sense to spend this before divvying the money.

[GreyWolfVT]

I am not 100% certain but i think the cost usually for identify is like 100 gp? But I could be wrong if anyone knows off the top of their head just let me know but I'm going to double check myself here.

[tarlyn]

I am not 100% certain but i think the cost usually for identify is like 100 gp? But I could be wrong if anyone knows off the top of their head just let me know but I'm going to double check myself here.

Yeah it is buttttttttttttttt dpesn't that depend on how many functions etc?

A potion is easy

But let's say a wand has 2 or 3 functions or a weapon for that matter.

All I know is that when my pc does it tabletop, you have to prepare the item first.

Then ask questions. There is a chance you do not get every single piece of info there is to be had.

[PyroArrow]

Identify (Divination) (1E / 2E)
level:1
Range: 0
Duration: 1 round / level
Area of Effect: One item per level
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: Special
Saving Throw: Special

Explanation/Description: When an identify spell is cast, one item at a time in turn, may be touched and handled by the magic-user in order that he or she may possibly find what dweomer it possesses.

The item in question must be held or worn as would be normal for any such object, i.e. a bracelet must be placed on the spell caster's wrist, a helm on his or her head, boots on the feet, a cloak worn, a dagger held, and so on.

Note that any consequences of this use of the item fall fully upon the magic-user,
although any saving throw normally allowed is still the privilege of the magic-user.

The eight hours immediately preceding the casting of the spell must be spent purifying the items and removing influences that would corrupt and blur their magical auras. If this period is interrupted, it must be begun again.

The item to be identified must be examined by the magic-user within 1 hour per level of experience of the examiner after it has been
discovered and purified, or all readable impressions will have been blended into those of the characters who have possessed it since.

Option 1:
For each segment the spell is in force, it is 15% + 5% per level
of the magic-user probable that 1 property of the object touched can
become known - possibly that the item has no properties and is merely a
ruse (the presence of Nystul's Magic Aura or a magic mouth being
detected).

Option 2:
The chance of learning a piece of information about an item is
equal to 10% per level of the caster, to a maximum of 90%, rolled
by the DM. Any roll of 96–00 indicates a false reading (91–95
reveals nothing).

Each time a property can be known, the referee will secretly roll
to see if the magic-user made his or her saving throw versus magic. If the
save was successful, the property is known; if it is 1 point short, a false
power will be revealed; and if it is lower than 1 under the required score
no information will be gained.

Only one function of a multifunction item is discovered
per handling (i.e., a 5th-level wizard could attempt to determine
the nature of five different items, five different functions of a single
item, or any combination of the two). If any attempt at reading fails,
the caster cannot learn any more about that item until he advances
a level. Note that some items, such as special magical tomes, cannot
be identified with this spell.

The item will never reveal its exact pluses to hit or its damage bonuses, although the fact that it has few or many such pluses can be discovered. If it has charges, the object will never reveal the exact number, but it will give information which is +/-25% of actual, i.e. a wand with 40 charges could feel as if it had 30, or 50, or any number in between.

OR

If it has charges, only a general indication of the number of
charges remaining is learned: powerful (81% – 100% of the total
possible charges), strong (61% – 80%), moderate (41% – 60%),
weak (6% – 40%), or faint (five charges or less). The faint result
takes precedence, so a fully charged ring of three wishes always
appears to be only faintly charged.

After casting the spell and determining what can be learned from it, the magic-user loses 8 points of constitution. He or she must rest for 6 turns per 1 point in order to regain them. If the 8 point loss drops the spell caster below a constitution of (DM Option of 3 or 1), he or she will fall unconscious, and consciousness will not be regained until full constitution is restored 24 hours later (one point per three hours for an unconscious character).

The material components of this spell are a pearl (of at least 100 g.p. value) and an owl feather steeped in
wine, with the infusion drunk and a live miniature carp swallowed whole prior to spell casting.

If a luckstone is powdered and added to the infusion, the divination becomes much more potent;

Option 1:
Probability increases 25% and all saving throws are made at +4.

Option 2:
Exact bonuses or charges can be determined, and the
functions of a multi-functional item can be learned from a single
reading. At the DM’s option, certain properties of an artifact or
relic might also be learned.

[PyroArrow]

Yeah it is buttttttttttttttt dpesn't that depend on how many functions etc?

A potion is easy

But let's say a wand has 2 or 3 functions or a weapon for that matter.

All I know is that when my pc does it tabletop, you have to prepare the item first.

Then ask questions. There is a chance you do not get every single piece of info there is to be had.

Originally a Potion still needed to be ID'ed by the Identify spell.
Drinking just a sip would not do it, and ruin the dosage and thus the magical effect that the potion gives you.


Some 1E Info:
DRINKING POTIONS
It takes but a segment (6 seconds) to open and consume the typical potion.
Thereafter, however, a certain delay will occur while the contents are ingested
and the magical properties of the potion take effect. The delay will be from
2-5 segments as a rule. When a potion is imbibed, simply roll d4, add +1 to
the result, and in that number of segments the effects of the dose will take full
effect. You may establish specific times for various potions if you so desire, but
this is a complication which is not generally recommended.

APPLYING OILS
Magic oils, not being consumed, are treated differently. The contents are poured
over hands and body and smeared appropriately. This will require normal
opening time and decanting, i.e., 1 segment. Spreading the oil will require 2-5
segments also, just as detailed for potions to take effect.

[GreyWolfVT]

That's all well and good but i was merely looking for a price for an NPC to charge PC's being that the NPC is an old man retired from adventuring and is at least a level 10 mage or higher (i haven't determined his actual level). Heck he proabably has a scroll of identify in his back room for all i "know"

[PyroArrow]

There is information somewhere on cost of another magic-user Identifying an Item, forget where, but basically you can just charge the 100 gp, of course.

The other spell components you can say are readily available and one could just get the fish in the local water way or fish market.

[GreyWolfVT]

I found all sorts of forums online with people asking a similar thing about costs and someone had posted somewhere about it costs 10gp x caster level x level of the spell but that is a little crazy that'd mean a level 20 mage would charge 20 x 10 gp = 200 gp for identify and a level 10 would charge less. Because identify is a level 1 spell. Unless they are saying the level of whatever spells would have made the item or that the item can cast then that gets a little more goofy math wise even more so if it is an item that can cast multiple spells of varying levels.

I suppose at the most i could say this is the hourly rate the NPC charges plus cost of materials for the identify spell and charge for however many hours it will take for the entire process plus the recovery of his Con. But that could also get a little crazy too.

Say he charges 1gp per hour + 100 gp for the components and it takes 24 hours total for one item plus another day or so of recovery CON wise just one item could run a good 200 gp right there and stall the game a bit too.

[PyroArrow]

Yea, that is basically what I thought the equation was, though like this:
Identify cost by another mage: 100 gp for large pearl + (10 gp * caster level)

I guess you can say the higher level mage has more renown, so he charges more for it!

Anyways there is a list in the 2E DMG of spell costs by a hired mage and Identify is 1,000 gp per item or function

I don't know what page it is on, but here is the list:
Astral spell 2,000 gp per person
Atonement *
Augury 200 gp
Bless *
Charm person 1,000 gp
Clairvoyance 50 gp per level of caster
Commune *
Comprehend languages 50 gp
Contact other plane 5,000 gp + 1,000 per question
Continual light 1,000 gp
Control weather 20,000 gp
Cure blindness 500 gp
Cure disease 500 gp
Cure light wounds 10 gp per point healed
Cure serious wounds 20 gp per point healed
Cure critical wounds 40 gp per point healed
Detection spells (any) 100 gp
Dispel magic 100 gp per level of the caster
Divination 500 gp
Earthquake *
Enchant an Item 20,000 gp plus other spells
ESP 500 gp
Explosive runes 1,000 gp
Find the path 1,000 gp
Fire trap 500 gp
Fools' gold 100 gp
Gate *
Glyph of warding 100 gp per level of the caster
Heal 50 gp per point healed
Identify 1,000 gp per item or function
Invisible stalker 5,000 gp
Invisibility 500 gp
Legend Lore 1,000 gp
Limited wish 20,000 gp **
Magic mouth 300 gp
Mass charm 5,000 gp
Neutralize poison 100 gp
Permanency 20,000 gp **
Plane shift *
Prayer *
Protection from evil 20 gp per level of caster
Raise dead *
Read magic 200 gp
Regenerate 20,000 gp
Reincarnation *
Remove curse 100 gp per level of caster
Restoration *
Slow poison 50 gp
Speak with dead 100 gp per level of caster
Suggestion 600 gp
Symbol 1,000 gp per level of caster
Teleport 2,000 gp per person
Tongues 100 gp
True seeing 5,000 gp
Wish 50,000 gp **
Wizard lock 50 gp per level of caster

Meanwhile 1E DMG list the cost to hire a cleric here: P. 103-104:
Cleric Spell
Requested Cost in Gold Pieces (See Below)
astral spell 5,000 per person
atonement 500 per level of experience of the recipient
augury 300
bless 5 per person per level of spell caster
commune 1,000 plus 500 per question
continual light 500
control weather 10,000
cure blindness 1,000
cure disease 1,000
cure light wounds 100
cure serious wounds 350
cure critical wounds 600
detect evil/good 100 (assumes device being checked)
detect magic 150 (assumes device being checked)
dispel evil/good 1,000
dispel magic 100 per level of spell caster
divination 1,000
earthquake 10,000


p.104
Cleric Spell
Requested Cost in Gold Pieces (See Below)
exorcise 1,000 per level of spell caster
find the path 500 per level of spell caster
gate 50,000
glyph of warding 100 per level of spell caster
heal 200 per point of healing
neutralize poison 1,000
part water 1,000 per level of spell caster
plane shift 4,000
prayer 50 per level of spell caster
protection from evil 50 per level of spell caster
purify food & drink 100
raise dead 1,000 plus 500 per level of spell caster
regenerate 15,000
remove curse 500 per level of spell caster
resist cold 50 per level of spell caster
resist fire 100 per level of spell caster
restoration
10,000 plus a like amount per level of experience
of the recipient
silence 100 per level of spell caster
slow poison 200 per level of spell caster
speak with dead 100 per level of spell caster
tongues 500
true seeing 400 per level of spell caster

[PyroArrow]

From looking on the web I appears the hired mage equation stems from the "Pathfinder" game.

[PyroArrow]

Ok, Here it is in the Unearthed Arcana 1E P.80!

COST OF MAGIC-USER/ILLUSIONIST SPELL CASTING
While the cost of having a cleric cast needed spells is reasonably well
detailed in the Dungeon Masters Guide, the cost of magic-user or illusionist
spell casting was neglected. Rather than giving an extensive list
of spells and costs, the following set of guidelines is provided to enable
the DM to determine a “reasonable” fee for any spell.

Basic costs: A willing magic-user or illusionist will typically work for a fee
of 200 gp per spell level. Double the material component(s), or material
components of at least such value as substitutions, is also part of the
basic fee.

Additional costs: Failure to furnish the material component(s) of a spell
which has components of ordinary sort will incur a surcharge of 10% or
three times the value of the component(s), whichever is greater. Failure
to furnish any extraordinary component(s) that may be needed brings
a surcharge of 100% of the casting cost or three times the value of the
component(s), whichever is greater. Spells which place the caster in danger
(including such castings as identify, which causes a temporary drop
in constitution of the caster) require at least a double fee, and guarantees
will be required as well. Spells which age the caster will be cast only if
a counter to such aging is awarded prior to spell casting, unless the
amount of aging is insignificant to the caster. (A young elf will not be
overly concerned about aging 5 years, although a fee of ten times normal
might be charged!)

Magic item payment: A magic-user or illusionist will generally accept
some item of magic in lieu of cash or like valuables. In such cases, the
sale value of the item, adjusted downward by the general reaction of
the spell caster to the individual requesting his or her services, is to be
considered the base value of the item. The character and behavior of the
NPC encountered will always be the purview of the DM. Such character
or behavior will, naturally, often affect costs and fees.

Hostile spell casters: In general, a hostile spell caster will either charge at
least double normal fees, or else he or she will simply refuse to cast any
spell whatsoever — unless possibly bribed to do so with some magic
item. Any spell caster of good alignment is quite unlikely to cast any spell
for a character of evil alignment in any event. Again, adjudication of such
events is the realm of the DM.

Spell casting under duress: Use the rules in the Dungeon Masters Guide
for all magic-user and illusionist spell casting under threat, magical influence,
etc.

[tarlyn]

I found all sorts of forums online with people asking a similar thing about costs and someone had posted somewhere about it costs 10gp x caster level x level of the spell but that is a little crazy that'd mean a level 20 mage would charge 20 x 10 gp = 200 gp for identify and a level 10 would charge less. Because identify is a level 1 spell. Unless they are saying the level of whatever spells would have made the item or that the item can cast then that gets a little more goofy math wise even more so if it is an item that can cast multiple spells of varying levels.

I suppose at the most i could say this is the hourly rate the NPC charges plus cost of materials for the identify spell and charge for however many hours it will take for the entire process plus the recovery of his Con. But that could also get a little crazy too.

Say he charges 1gp per hour + 100 gp for the components and it takes 24 hours total for one item plus another day or so of recovery CON wise just one item could run a good 200 gp right there and stall the game a bit too.

That is why you identify when you are in between adventures. So the party would not logically jump right into another one.

You have down time to research new spells (if a mage) and learn new spells as well if priest/cleric, learn a new proficiency.

Del just learned a new NWP in Animal Handling which she has been working towards as we adventured. And she had 2nd

level spells now. Most probably her praying tonight will be special cause of that.

So as much as we should look into a mage we should rest up first and do our "in between" adventure stuff.

Just my two cents.

[GreyWolfVT]

I found all sorts of forums online with people asking a similar thing about costs and someone had posted somewhere about it costs 10gp x caster level x level of the spell but that is a little crazy that'd mean a level 20 mage would charge 20 x 10 gp = 200 gp for identify and a level 10 would charge less. Because identify is a level 1 spell. Unless they are saying the level of whatever spells would have made the item or that the item can cast then that gets a little more goofy math wise even more so if it is an item that can cast multiple spells of varying levels.

I suppose at the most i could say this is the hourly rate the NPC charges plus cost of materials for the identify spell and charge for however many hours it will take for the entire process plus the recovery of his Con. But that could also get a little crazy too.

Say he charges 1gp per hour + 100 gp for the components and it takes 24 hours total for one item plus another day or so of recovery CON wise just one item could run a good 200 gp right there and stall the game a bit too.

That is why you identify when you are in between adventures. So the party would not logically jump right into another one.

You have down time to research new spells (if a mage) and learn new spells as well if priest/cleric, learn a new proficiency.

Del just learned a new NWP in Animal Handling which she has been working towards as we adventured. And she had 2nd

level spells now. Most probably her praying tonight will be special cause of that.

So as much as we should look into a mage we should rest up first and do our "in between" adventure stuff.

Just my two cents.

I honestly thought I had the cost somewhere (on here or on the DM Charsheet) from the last time you guys came back to town so I wasn't overly concerned with it at the time.

[GreyWolfVT]

On the potion question I suppose if we use the 5e cost the only one that has a price listed on D&D Beyond is Healing (basic healing) potion costs 50 gp. I could apply this to 2e as well charging 50 gp to 100 gp for just that potion however the others have no price associated that i can find so far. I know I said 5e not 2e, but that is no typo. 2e merely for what i can see has XP values not a GP value I think i said at one time that i could conver that as a 1 for 1 1 XP = 1 GP value. Which would still make it so most potions would cost more than 200 gp (in reply to Egon's question to Reggie).

[Rex]

I wasn't expecting much really, but thats what I have to spend.

[GreyWolfVT]

That's ok Reggie had a homebrew "elixir" to offer lol

[shaidar]

just to say I'm ok if we jump ahead a couple of days until when the items are identified

[Rex]

Me too.

[tarlyn]

Ditto on my end

[GreyWolfVT]

alright works for me wasn't really sure since things went silent.