OOC Chat — "Hoshihige Most Auspicious Inn"

[Rex]

OK, that I have figured out. But, I can't find the skill for using a Naginata in the raw skills.

[Captain Kinkajou]

Starbeard, one of the things I always found a little weird with L5R is justifying why a group of samurai all from different clans was working together in the first place. Is that something you had any thoughts on? I guess I'm asking if it would be of benefit to try and keep the number of different clans we're from down or whether you'd rather just see what happens / have the rivalries?

I agree, I've always thought it was a little counterintuitive to give all of these character options and then overstress the whole "Clan secrets" angle so much. It makes you bend over backwards to come up with a reason why the party isn't all from the same clan. The classic go-to is to make everyone travelling to a world famous festival or tournament, or make them working for the Imperial Magistrates, but this time I'd like to try something a little different.

For this game I'd like to be a little more organic and historical with the clan structure than what's written in the book. Consider the lore to be 'the way the Rokugani like to think about themselves,' but in reality, it's very possible to have grown up in the Crane lands but married into a Crab family, or maybe your father had to change lords from one clan to another, but still teaches his children the same techniques he learned from his homeland. The lure of the big city may have brought a country Phoenix samurai with no ties to the Crane territories. A Lion might have spent his entire life as a foster hostage at the castle of a minor Dragon lord, so that in game terms he's a Dragon bushi with a Dragon family bonus, but as a character he's still considered to be part of the Lion clan even though he's only been 'home' twice in his whole life.

In the rules all of these are things you have to buy as advantages and disadvantages, because they really play up the whole 'Clan secrets' thing. but I think it will make the game run much more smoothly and the setting feel more alive if just do it and forget about the points. Once I get a firm idea of exactly where the game will be set (I'll consider requests on that too), we'll have a much better idea of how to fit every character in.

That all sounds eminently sensible Starbeard - As I'm coming to expect from you!

I actually really like your idea of stepping back from the L5R lore somewhat and the population being much more integrated in terms of the clans. So, we're all just samurai with loyalty to different lords/daimyos and the clans are fairly incidental.

As an aside, your pitch and the mention of different objectives for each of us is making me think of Tim Kleinert's The Mountain Witch, which I mean very definitely as a good thing. I've never actually played it but read about the 1st Edition some years back, and it was very flavourful by all accounts.

[Captain Kinkajou]

OK, that I have figured out. But, I can't find the skill for using a Naginata in the raw skills.

I noticed there is a Naginata skill listed in the Bugei skills of the Clans & Schools pdf Starbeard shared. Hope that helps.

[Rex]

Thanks, not sure how I missed that.

[Starbeard]

OK, that I have figured out. But, I can't find the skill for using a Naginata in the raw skills.

I noticed there is a Naginata skill listed in the Bugei skills of the Clans & Schools pdf Starbeard shared. Hope that helps.

Oh right! That rings a bell. I remember when I first played it took me awhile to notice that Naginata was missing in the skill writeups.

That made me go back and read the actual descriptions. I forgot that the weapon skills are open to interpretation even here:

Kenjutsu says that it's used for all 'swords' (the weapons on page 122, which includes the tessen war fan and knives). But then the War Fan skill right after that is ambiguous about whether it's used for both combat and signalling, or just combat. Also, in the master skill list (end of your Clan handouts) there is a separate Knife skill.

[Starbeard]

Here are the weapon skills in the master list. The only ones with a description are Kenjutsu, Iaijutsu and Ninjutsu (in an appendix on ninja):

Archery
Bo Stick
Iaijutsu
Kenjutsu
Knife
Naginata
Ninjutsu
Tetsubo
War Fan
Yarijutsu
"Weapon"-jutsu

I propose we interpret the weapon skills as 'broad skills that cover several weapons', in the spirit of the Kenjutsu description:

Archery — all bows
Iaijutsu — used for iaijutsu duels only
Kenjutsu — everything on the 'sword' list: swords, knives and war fans
Naginata — all 'cut & thrust' pole arms: naginata, ono/axe, man-catcher
Tetsubo — all 'blunt smashing' pole arms: otsuchi/maul, tetsubo/kanabo
Yarijutsu — all 'piercing' pole arms: yari/spear, nageyari/javelin

War Fan — not a combat skill, juts used for making & understanding signals (we'll even include smoke & fire/lantern signals)

Kobujutsu (or 'peasant weapons' if you like) — this is the 'kenjutsu' of peasant weapons, used for everything on the peasant weapon list.

Ninjutsu — as it is in the appendix, used for all ninja weapons & equipment, including chains, hooks, etc, but also all thrown weapons (even if it's throwing your knife, sword or javelin). On the battlefield or in police service to capture enemies it is a normal Bugei skill, but otherwise it is a dishonorable Low skill.

[Starbeard]

As an aside, your pitch and the mention of different objectives for each of us is making me think of Tim Kleinert's The Mountain Witch, which I mean very definitely as a good thing. I've never actually played it but read about the 1st Edition some years back, and it was very flavourful by all accounts.

I've never even heard of this, it sounds really interesting! Thanks for point it out, it sounds right up my alley and looks like there's still time to back the Kickstarter.

On a side note, my wife and I are currently watching the anime cartoon series Onihei, and I highly recommend it. They have it on Amazon Prime, but I'm sure you can find it on several anime streaming sites too. The half-hour episodes are adaptations from a classic series of police detective thrillers set in late 18th-century Edo. They don't have the supernatural element, but they are still quite fun and dramatic, and put you in the mood for samurai swordfighting and bittersweet mysteries. Put the kids to sleep beforehand though, it's definitely too dark and violent for them.

[LtTibbles]

I really need to checllk that out Starbeard!

So I think I've decided on a Dragon Clan Bushi for my character.

[Rex]

An image of my PC.

[Starbeard]

Nice!

[Rex]

Kenta

True Ronin Monk
Large
Ascetic
Social Disadvantage: Ronin

Five Rings

Fire 2 Agility 4
Intelligence 2
Air 2 Reflexes 2
Awareness 2
Earth 3 Stamina 3
Willpower 3
Water 2 Strength 3
Perception 2
Void 2

Glory 1;0 (0;0)
Honour 2;5

Skills

Skill Rank Trait
Athletics 2 varies varies
Hunting 1 Perception 3k2
Medicine 2 Intelligence 4k2
Meditation 1 Void 3k2
Shintao 1 Intelligence 3k2
Stealth 1 Agility 5k4

Defense 2 Agility 6k4
Jiujutsu (Hand to Hand) 2 Agility 6k4
Kobudo (Peasant Wpns) 2 Agility 6k4
Naginata 2 Agility 6k4

Insight Rank
126 1

Wounds

Wound
Points Rank Penalty
6 0 none
12 -1 .-1k0
18 -2 .-2k0
24 -3 .-3k0
30 -4 .-4k0
36 Down special
42 Out special
48 Dead special

Outfit

Outfit Attack Full Attack Damage
Bare Hands 6k4 8k4 5k1
Kama 6k4 8k4 6k2
Naginata 6k4 8k4 7k3

Kimono, Obi & Sandles

[Starbeard]

Looks good, Rex!

For the others: we PMed back and forth and Rex wanted a Shaolin sort of monk. There are no monk schools in the core rulebook, because 1) the shugenja priests are already sort of monks, half-inspired by the real life Shugendō practioners known popularly in the west as "yamabushi," and 2) in the Rokugan setting, almost all monks are retired bushi samurai.

So, I think it makes sense for his Shintao monk to be created using the same rules as a ronin: a "Clan Ronin" Monk is a samurai who retired early to join the Shintao priesthood, and a "True Ronin" Monk is a character who was lived his whole life as part of the priesthood, or maybe who was a commoner before taking vows.

I've never actually tried this or even thought of it before, but already I'm surprising myself at how flexible and versatile this game is, even with just the simple core rulebook!

[ffilz]

Hmm, so I'm not quite sure where to start on chargen... Maybe one issue is I don't really have quite enough background in the source material...

Maybe this is a test of how little source material one needs to have exposure to in order to succeed in play?

Frank

[Rex]

Frank,
It isn't to bad really. Just ask questions. I have never played or read the rules before and I am not really familiar with historical Japan other than some metallurgy. If I can figure it out anyone can.
Rex

[Starbeard]

Looks good, Rex!

For the others: we PMed back and forth and Rex wanted a Shaolin sort of monk. There are no monk schools in the core rulebook, because 1) the shugenja priests are already sort of monks, half-inspired by the real life Shugendō practioners known popularly in the west as "yamabushi," and 2) in the Rokugan setting, almost all monks are retired bushi samurai.

So, I think it makes sense for his Shintao monk to be created using the same rules as a ronin: a "Clan Ronin" Monk is a samurai who retired early to join the Shintao priesthood, and a "True Ronin" Monk is a character who was lived his whole life as part of the priesthood, or maybe who was a commoner before taking vows.

I've never actually tried this or even thought of it before, but already I'm surprising myself at how flexible and versatile this game is, even with just the simple core rulebook!

Hah, nevermind. For some reason I thought this was in PMs, but it was right here in the thread the whole time. We just went over the particulars in PM.

[Starbeard]

Hmm, so I'm not quite sure where to start on chargen... Maybe one issue is I don't really have quite enough background in the source material...

Maybe this is a test of how little source material one needs to have exposure to in order to succeed in play?

Frank

It might be. Although, to be fair, when I first played the core rulebook was all there was, and that didn't hamper us!

My suggestion would be to read pages 5-6 of the Rokugan Primer. It has a one-paragraph description of each of the 7 Clans. If one sounds interesting, you can read the one-page description of the clan in the Clans & Schools sheet. It has a lot of the same information, but it also gives you a basic impression of how the Clan sees itself, and how other people view the Clan.

For example, the Crab live at the south end of map, where the Great Kaiu Wall protects against the corruption and evil monsters of the Shadowlands, so naturally they see themselves as the thankless protectors of the Empire. The other clans see them as brash, rude, uncultured and violent.

The final option is to be a ronin. Since samurai are defined by their service to their lord, if you have no lord to serve then you do not fit into society. You have the social status of being born a noble, but legally you are a wolf's head and have no rights. You can go where you want and don't have to answer to anybody, but the life of a ronin is hard.

[Starbeard]

More on character choices:

Your character will always be from the noble class. There are just two professions that all nobles are educated in, bushi (classic samurai knight) and shugenja (a priest/magician/cleric). Each clan has a bushi "School" and a shugenja "School." Your school gives you your starting skills, equipment, and your special Rank 1 "Technique" (special ability). As you gain school ranks (up to 5), you gain more techniques.

Here's a basic breakdown of the archetypes, from what I recall. The two words are their good & bad stereotypes:

CRAB— pragmatic / brutish
Crab bushi: extra resilient and lots of damage
Crab shugenja: boost to Earth spells (protection & wards)

CRANE— cultured / snooty
Crane bushi: excellent duelists
Crane shugenja: boost to Air spells (illusion & awareness)

DRAGON— meditative / aloof
Dragon bushi: allows two-sword fighting
Dragon shugenja: boost to Fire spells (attacks & damage)

LION— honorable / tempestuous
Lion bushi: relentless attackers
Lion shugenja: boost to Water spells (healing & information)

PHOENIX— scholarly / weak
Phoenix bushi: more benefits from having high Void Ring
Phoenix shugenja: well-rounded on all spells

SCORPION— diplomatic / backstabbing
Scorpion bushi: quicker initiative
Scorpion shugenja: boost to Air spells (illusion & awareness)

UNICORN— precocious / uncultured
Unicorn bushi: excellent horsemen
Unicorn shugenja: boost to Water spells (healing & information)

RONIN— freedom / no honor
Clan Ronin: pick any school, then you are cast out as a ronin
True Ronin: you were born a ronin, no access to clan or school benefits, but you get more character points

[Starbeard]

Right now it looks like the lineup is shaping out to be:

Rex: an ascetic monk (kung fu focus, extra damage but poor social skills)
LtTibbles: probably a Dragon bushi (fast, two-sword fighting)
Kinkajou: possibly a lady bushi (esoteric Dragon or haughty Crane?) with a quick swordfighting focus
ffilz: still perusing
sandbagger3: still perusing

So far the party is very attack heavy, with 2 flashy swordfighters and 1 brute strength character.

A few ideas:

A shugenja's magic is always helpful, and they tend to have higher social skills. Crane, Dragon, & Scorpion shugenja can also become fairly good swordfighters pretty easily.

Phoenix, Lion and Scorpion bushi should make excellent archers.

Unicorn bushi are excellent fighters in the outdoors (ranged or melee) because of their horse riding.

Cranes and Scorpions usually make the best diplomats.

Lion and Phoenix bushi are often the best at precision, when you really want that one attack to really count.

[ffilz]

Hmm, based on that either Crab or Unicorn...

How hard is the magic system? Unicorn shugenja sounds possibly interesting.

Frank

[Starbeard]

That does sound interesting! In 5 years of playing all the time, I don't think I ever saw anyone play a Unicorn shugenja

Shugenja are the priest-wizards of Rokugan. There are two religions, and everyone practices both side by side: Fortunism (the 'old way', like Japanese Shinto) and Shintao (the 'new way', like Buddhism).

Fortunism includes the woship of the Sun Goddess, the Seven Fortune Deities, the hundreds of Lesser Fortunes, the small 'kami' gods and spirits that exist in every animal and object, and the spirits of family ancestors.

Shugenja are the priests of Fortunism. They maintain shrines and conduct elaborate rituals to protect against evil spirits and commune with the dead and the little gods.

Magic spells are organized by which Ring element they belong to. To cast a spell you have to read it off of a scroll, and roll Ring+School Rank against the TN of the spell, so any shugenja can cast any spell, but it is very difficult to cast the powerful ones unless you are high Rank.

Every shugenja also has access to 4 common spells, which are your meat and potatoes: Sense, Commune, Summon, and Counterspell. You can use these with any ring. Examples: if you want to locate a source of fresh water nearby, you can cast Sense with your Water Ring. If you want to speak with the little kami god that exists in your campfire, you can cast Commune with your Fire Ring. If you want to create a bit of smoke out of thin air, you can cast Summon with your Air Ring. Counterspell lets you cancel another shugenja's spell as it's being cast.

Unicorn shugenja get a free raise (better effect) whenever they cast a Water spell. Water spells tend to focus on curing and purification, charming animals, farsight and locate, and of course torrential downpours and floods. You will also get a couple of Fire spells (these are damage, bless, and enchant weapon spells), and one Air spell (illusion, flight, stealth, sense motive type spells)