Adventure 1: Feedback

[Pulpatoon]

This seems like a good time to get some feedback, and possibly re-tool before starting up the next adventure. Answer as much or as little as you care to. First, the system itself.

1. Do you feel like you have a handle on the rules?

2. Do you like the rules? Are the details that make it different from basic D&D adding enjoyment or not?

3. Do you like your character?

4. Do you like your character's skills? Are they useful (or potentially useful in a different adventure)? Do you have any skills that just seem like duds?

5. If you've used magic, what do you think of the magic system?

6. What do you think of the combat system?

7. How about Fortune points?

8. I sorta unintentionally settled into using ability checks instead of saving throws. Turns out, most BtW GM's do the same. Does this bug you?

9. Did you enjoy the collaborative setting design at the beginning of the game and during the sandbox experiment? Would you like more of that?

[MonkeyWrench]

This seems like a good time to get some feedback, and possibly re-tool before starting up the next adventure. Answer as much or as little as you care to. First, the system itself.

1. Do you feel like you have a handle on the rules?
2. Do you like the rules? Are the details that make it different from basic D&D adding enjoyment or not?
3. Do you like your character?
4. Do you like your character's skills? Are they useful (or potentially useful in a different adventure)? Do you have any skills that just seem like duds?
5. If you've used magic, what do you think of the magic system?
6. What do you think of the combat system?
7. How about Fortune points?
8. I sorta unintentionally settled into using ability checks instead of saving throws. Turns out, most BtW GM's do the same. Does this bug you?
9. Did you enjoy the collaborative setting design at the beginning of the game and during the sandbox experiment? Would you like more of that?

1. As much as we have covered? yeah, the rules have been straight forward and as far as I am aware, small in number and simple in practice. Which for me is great.

2. Not sure? I'm not really aware of the big differences between the two.

3. I do like Marcus the noble farm boy! I play him as the worrier of the group, like a big brother; always trying to make sure everyone is safe. I hope no one has has any issue with him!

4. I don't know? So far I've only used his combat skills and his navigation/woodland skills. So I can't really say too much, I am kind of curious to see how I can use my politics skills though.

5. haven't used it, but the abjuration spells seem pretty cool.

6. straight forward D20 style, can't go wrong with it. Marcus will need to get himself a badass spear though since he is better with it.

7. I feel they are introduced enough, or maybe we just don't get them, probably both. We either forgot all about them or rarely used them until you suggested it.

8. I feel that, even with D&D, skills checks should be used more than saving throws. To me everything the character does that requires a check is skill related, saving throws should only be done for things the character has no control over, like spells and stuff.

9. I enjoyed that a lot, it was fun writing stories and making new places and people up with everyone. Let it be known that I have never said world building is no fun!

[KingOfCowards]

1. Do you feel like you have a handle on the rules? Yes, I think I get it. Outside of what's written in the books there seems to be plenty of wiggle room for the DM to interpret results of a roll, which is probably a good thing.

2. Do you like the rules? Are the details that make it different from basic D&D adding enjoyment or not? Yes and no. There are some things about the magic system that could be improved. I like fortune points, and I really enjoyed character creation.

3. Do you like your character? Yes I do. Simon is very different from what I usually play, and I think the extra work put into character creation helped me to develop his persona.

4. Do you like your character's skills? Are they useful (or potentially useful in a different adventure)? Do you have any skills that just seem like duds? I have some comments about magic in the next question.

5. If you've used magic, what do you think of the magic system? Magic is separated into three forms; cantrips, spells, and rituals. I have a opinion on each of them. I love the idea of unlimited cantrips, and I don't mind the ability check to use them. What I don't like is that you don't get any better at casting them. At first level, with an intelligence of 9, I have a 45% of success at casting magelight. If my character was 9th level, I would have hoped he would have mastered this menial task. Spells work well, I enjoy the ability to cast what I want, and not have to memorize it at the beginning of the day. While the 1st level spells look fair, I do believe on average they are less powerful than in D&D because many of them were turned into rituals. Rituals are pretty much the best spells which were used in D&D and now take you longer to cast in this system, and require an ability check. I think this is what hurts the mages the most in this system. Sure they upped their hit points and allowed them to use whatever weapons they want, but their not nearly as dangerous as their D&D counterparts at higher levels. It would take hours to cast a fireball spell, which makes it nearly useless, in my opinion. This hurts the mage class as a whole, and to me leaves very little reason to be a mage instead of a warrior-mage who would level up at the same rate and get to wear armor.

6. What do you think of the combat system? I approve of the different stances. It can add some tactics to an everyday combat.

7. How about Fortune points? I like these mostly because of how often we are called upon for an ability check. If fortune points were only used in combat, I wouldn't think they were necessary.

8. I sorta unintentionally settled into using ability checks instead of saving throws. Turns out, most BtW GM's do the same. Does this bug you? I like it. It makes the ability scores more useful in my opinion. You may want to think about using Charisma checks more often. For all I know you could have been rolling them off screen in place of reaction rolls, but it seemed to be the least used of all the abilities. That could be the type of adventure we were in.

9. Did you enjoy the collaborative setting design at the beginning of the game and during the sandbox experiment? Would you like more of that? Very much so. I thought this worked very well for a play-by-post setting, where we don't know the other players as well. I also liked creating bonds between the characters before play instead of having them meet in a tavern and get thrown into an adventure.

[Pulpatoon]

KoC, really good points, re: Magic. I'll give it some attention with that in mind.

[mb.]

1. Do you feel like you have a handle on the rules?

Yeah, although the roll high/low thing still strikes me as a bit confused.

2. Do you like the rules? Are the details that make it different from basic D&D adding enjoyment or not?

I'm not someone who cares too much about rules TBH, and don't know basic D&D well enough to notice the differences. One thing though that constantly irritated me: the rules PDFs are hellishly organised and I found it far more difficult than it should be to find something I needed.

3. Do you like your character?

Of course! How could you not like Bürd? But seriously, on paper I like the mix of a little magic and fighting. It's a bit disappointing that he doesn't have access to rituals, but I understand the desire to balance the multi-class thing. Mostly what I've enjoyed about Bürd is his personality which developed through playing and finding his voice. And I'd echo KoC: the pre-game backstory development was a very good thing.

4. Do you like your character's skills? Are they useful (or potentially useful in a different adventure)? Do you have any skills that just seem like duds?

The whole "only one spell once a day" thing is always a bit frustrating at 1st level. Luckily Bürd's also got an axe.

5. If you've used magic, what do you think of the magic system?

It's fine. I'd like to see the spell list expanded though. I didn't see too much Bürd would really want when selecting a spell for 2nd level (I took Burning Hands in the end).

6. What do you think of the combat system?

No real thoughts on this. It seemed to work fine.

7. How about Fortune points?

I'm always a fan of mechanics that allow a character to look more like a hero (and less like a loser) more often.

8. I sorta unintentionally settled into using ability checks instead of saving throws. Turns out, most BtW GM's do the same. Does this bug you?

Not at all. I consider Saving Throws a completely useless holdover from D&D that complicates things unnecessarily. I would've done the same as you.

9. Did you enjoy the collaborative setting design at the beginning of the game and during the sandbox experiment? Would you like more of that?

You know my answer to that already. Bring it on!

[Pulpatoon]

Thanks for the excellent feedback, folks. I'm toying with a skill hack for BtW, which I'll share here to get your thoughts, once it's written. Then I'll run it by the wider BtW community. And I'll put some serious thought into the magic system. There's a lot to like about the magic system, but some legitimate concerns as well, and I'll want to be sure that there are no babies in the bathwater.

Okay, so. Next up: this past adventure.

I tried to incorporate a bunch of different challenges, although some ended up more emphasized than others. Please share thoughts on which elements you liked/want to see more of/didn't see enough of/saw way too much of:

1. Investigation.
2. Wilderness exploration.
3. Social interaction.
4. Hidden agendas.
5. Puzzle solving.
6. Dungeon delving.
7. Darkness and gross stuff.
8. Light and amusing stuff.
9. Mythic and epic stuff.
10. Splitting the party.
11. Monsters.
12. Romance.
13. Economics.
14. Treasure.

Anything else?

During the long, cold nights in the depths of winter, your character is visited by a prophetic dream. It is a single brief moment of wonder, terror, triumph, or incomprehensible befuddlement. What is this dream?

There are two major plot threads left dangling: where is the cultist's monster off to, and how did all this madness begin in the first place? Which are you inclined to follow up on? Or would you rather explore something different altogether?

How do you feel about the party size? Would you like to open up space for another player or two, or are we fine as is?

[KingOfCowards]

I must say, its nice to see you take so much time and care to reflect on an adventure with your players. I am pondering the best way to respond on the topic of challenges, they might not fit cleanly into "liked/want to see more of/didn't see enough of/saw way too much of" columns, so I will just comment on how I thought they worked in this adventure.

1. Investigation - Definitely not my strong suit. But it kept me on my toes. I honestly thought the town investigation part of the adventure was more entertaining than the dungeon, but that's just me.
2. Wilderness exploration - When the party split up, I was in the group that did not go exploring. So I did not see enough of it, but that's my own fault.
3. Social interaction - I think a first adventure needs a good amount of social interaction in order for the players to find their bearings, so to speak. For my taste, this was spot on.
4. Hidden agendas - This was the major part of the mystery. Its no fun knowing exactly what is going on, and until we found that girl we still had no clue who or what started this. NPC's/Villians/etc. should be dynamic pieces, and not sitting around doing nothing. So I am all for hidden agendas and intelligent adversaries.
5. Puzzle solving - I didn't see much of what I would call classic puzzle solving. Maybe figuring out how to get past the puffballs. We ended up requiring either a skill check (which failed) or NPC suggestion to figure out how to save the tree. So looking back, I think we did a pretty poor job of both of these obstacles.
6. Dungeon Delving - Not my favorite aspect for a play by post game. But this is a staple in classic D&D and roleplaying games, so I don't expect others to agree with me here.
7. Darkness and gross stuff - Bring it on. The darker and grosser the better. There were some good, creepy parts in this adventure which set the tone quite nicely.
8. Light and Amusing stuff - This can go too far sometimes, so I wouldn't add more. I liked the conversation with the fisher kids and Tatter Helga and there is something about a talking pig which in inherently funny.
9. Mythic and epic stuff - It depends how epic. It seems weird to have the first level adventurers saving the world, but this adventure was about as epic as I would get for our current place in life.
10. Splitting the party - I thought this went well. This actually plays to the strengths of a play by post.
11. Monsters - We seemed to have a lot of animal encounters or human combatants. There were some mold zombies and the ooze in the end, but I think we could up the monster number.
12. Romance - Rescuing the Miller daughters was my personal highlight of the adventure and might be the highlight for Simon's whole career. Unfortunately, most of the other characters missed out. It didn't go anywhere from there, though. I wonder how the Miller family reacts to us now that we're heroes.
13. Economics - Not for me. It's great for a plot hook, but I don't plan on going into fishmongering or farming.
14. Treasure - A good mix of treasure once we got going. Weapons themselves are worth a decent amount of cash. For a first adventure, I think we ended up somewhere in the gray area between just enough treasure and too much treasure. Keep the interesting stuff coming as well. I like when spoils are not marked in a chest labeled treasure, with neatly stacked gold coins inside.

I'll work on the dream in a bit because I'll want some time to think it out.

Finding the origin of this madness might be for curiosity sake, but I would rather find where the monster went. As for the party size, I think we are on the small side. Another player or two would not hurt.

[KingOfCowards]

During the long, cold nights in the depths of winter, your character is visited by a prophetic dream. It is a single brief moment of wonder, terror, triumph, or incomprehensible befuddlement. What is this dream?

Simon finds himself in a huge crystalline cavern. Brilliant light shines off of every multi-faceted surface, so bright that it stings his human eyes. The cavern emanates wonderous, mystical energy. He can sense it without concentrating on it. He can feel it on his skin. He breathes it in, and his lungs fill, but not with air. The magic puts him in a euphoric trance and it feels like time has stopped. He spreads his arms and his feet start to lift from the cavern floor. But then a booming voice breaks the trance in an instant, and calling his name. "SIMON..." The powerful voice fills him with such dread that he awakens, drenched in perspiration despite the chill winter air. No matter how hard he tries, he cannot forget that voice. Whatever it was, it was not friendly.

[mb.]

My feedback:

1. Investigation.
This was great overall, and I really enjoyed the wondering and slowly figuring out what's happening and why. There was a point, after exploring the dungeon completely, where I expected to find more clues but none showed up and I was left wondering what the hell was happening and why, and having no way to figure it out, which was a bit frustrating and confusing. And after all of the questions, it felt a bit like it fizzled out and answers were dumped suddenly in our laps, rather than reaching a dramatic climax which we had earned.

2. Wilderness exploration.
There wasn't so much of this, but I also don't really mind.

3. Social interaction.
Really enjoyed this side of things at the beginning and end. The characters from the village were a lot of fun.

4. Hidden agendas.
Plenty of this, and I liked it, other than the frustration mentioned in 1. above.

5. Puzzle solving.
There were mysteries, but not so many puzzles. I didn't really miss them though.

6. Dungeon delving.
This was a good bit, with some nice action and weirdness, and good challenges which forced us to cooperate and think about what we were doing.

7. Darkness and gross stuff.
Mostly the tone was pleasingly disturbing, with the tied up priest and dying animals and so on. It really made me think when Bürd was forced to bite the priest, and it felt a bit like a violation – my character being forced against my will to do something so disgusting that would really permanently damage them psychologically was pretty challenging. But with Bürd's basically cheerful disposition I had room to just shrug it off, but if I imagine something like that it would realistically change a person forever, and probably drive them mad.

8. Light and amusing stuff.
There wasn't too much of this (can't say I missed it), but the villagers brought in a nice bit of comic relief, especially at the end.

9. Mythic and epic stuff.
I certainly had the feeling that something mythically epic was going on, but don't feel like we ever really figured out exactly what it was.

10. Splitting the party.
It's unavoidable, especially when the party insists on splitting itself, but it seemed pretty inconvenient in the PbP format and I'd like to see less of it in the future, which is more feedback for my fellow players than the GM.

11. Monsters.
Quite a lot of enjoyable strangeness and worthy challenges here.

12. Romance.
None (for Bürd) and I didn't miss it.

13. Economics.
Not so into this personally. It's nice story-wise that the heroes were rewarded by the village, but I'm less interested in the income than the freedom and influence that it gives them.

14. Treasure.
Although Bürd of course loves coin, I prefer magical and/or mysterious objects, and wouldn't mind more of that in the future.

Also, world-building Something you didn't specifically mention: the world-building at the beginning was great. Overall I certainly enjoyed it and look forward to more!

What next? As for plot threads, Bürd currently wouldn't have any idea where or how to follow up on the cultists and how it all began, so he'd be keen to try and follow traces of the monster that escaped to the north.

Party size? I don't really have the feeling we're too small. Another person wouldn't hurt, but I don't feel we're desperately in need of one either.

[PyroArrow]

This seems like a good time to get some feedback, and possibly re-tool before starting up the next adventure. Answer as much or as little as you care to. First, the system itself.

1. Do you feel like you have a handle on the rules?

Well, i understand them after you mention them at least but might forget at a later time.

2. Do you like the rules? Are the details that make it different from basic D&D adding enjoyment or not?

Yes the rules are fine, the differences add variety to basic D&D play & keeps things fresh, after all it's always like playing 'Calvin Ball' as it is anyways, experimenting with & trying new game rules into your game.

3. Do you like your character?

Yes indeed!


4. Do you like your character's skills? Are they useful (or potentially useful in a different adventure)? Do you have any skills that just seem like duds?

Yes & yes & No!

5. If you've used magic, what do you think of the magic system?
have not used magic.

6. What do you think of the combat system?

I'm fine with it!

7. How about Fortune points?

Neat little feature.

8. I sorta unintentionally settled into using ability checks instead of saving throws. Turns out, most BtW GM's do the same. Does this bug you?

Heck, not bugging me any!

9. Did you enjoy the collaborative setting design at the beginning of the game and during the sandbox experiment? Would you like more of that?

I wasn't here at the beginning but saw how it was all set-up & yes more of it would be fine.

10. I tried to incorporate a bunch of different challenges, although some ended up more emphasized than others. Please share thoughts on which elements you liked/want to see more of/didn't see enough of/saw way too much of:

1. Investigation.
2. Wilderness exploration.
3. Social interaction.
4. Hidden agendas.
5. Puzzle solving.
6. Dungeon delving.
7. Darkness and gross stuff.
8. Light and amusing stuff.
9. Mythic and epic stuff.
10. Splitting the party.
11. Monsters.
12. Romance.
13. Economics.
14. Treasure.

Heck Dude i liked it all!

Anything else?
Can't think of anything at the moment!

During the long, cold nights in the depths of winter, your character is visited by a prophetic dream. It is a single brief moment of wonder, terror, triumph, or incomprehensible befuddlement. What is this dream?

"Hmm, not sure where to go with this, would dreams of Gizzy's origins frighten him to what it may be?"

There are two major plot threads left dangling: where is the cultist's monster off to, and how did all this madness begin in the first place? Which are you inclined to follow up on? Or would you rather explore something different altogether?

"i would not mind finding the cultist monster or how & why it all began. I am fine with exploring something different, the answers to the earlier stuff can always turn up later when you least expect it!

How do you feel about the party size? Would you like to open up space for another player or two, or are we fine as is?

"I don't mind if more players come aboard! Of course you would adjust accordingly, (more monsters, & or stronger ones for example)."

Adding one more: "Would i buy "Beyond the Wall...."?
"Heck yes!"

[Pulpatoon]

Great feedback, everyone, and thanks!

Figuring out the best way to use dungeons in a PbP format is going to take some experimentation. Like you guys, I felt the campaign was liveliest during the investigation stage. I think this is partly because the mystery was fresher at that stage, but also because the social interaction works really well in PbP.

And, yeah, I was guilty of a little Hollywood-style infodump in order to wrap things up when I became afraid of things dragging out. That's not really a thing I think GM's should do, but we don't always have the courage of our convictions. I'll do better next time.

Also, you killed off the cultists WAY faster than I expected. I was expecting them to harry and provide context throughout your exploration, but instead they just gathered flies. I'm going to have to figure out the sweet spot of combat, which means I'm probably going to dip into too-deadly as I pendulum-swing around. Apologies ahead of time.

Oh, and re: the land grant. Since we're about to go sandboxing, I wanted to reinforce your ties to Herebury—there's a reason to want to get back there and invest in the place. Just a nudge in that direction, though. Feel free to ignore it if your character starts to grow in a different direction.

Anyone have any questions or discussion re: leveling your characters?

[mb.]

I'm pretty sure that I levelled the right way: Bürd's BAB went to +2, he got a new spell, and that's it.

Although he was pleased to have deciphered the stone's spells, he recorded them, consigned them to the Reve's library for safekeeping, and set himself to the task of understanding and practicing a spell on a stone tablet his Gran Ilswitha gave him. After a minor mishap (a blackened tree in the forest and the loss of a nice pair of gloves) Bürd is now confident in his ability with Burning Hands.

I'll dream up a dream soon...

[KingOfCowards]

I must have missed the part where we get a new spell. I thought you had to learn them through adventure or other means?

[Pulpatoon]

KoC, Simon and Bürd deciphered some spells from the standing stones that aren't in the BtW spellbook. You may choose from those, or, if you can just pick something from the book, and we'll can say you picked it up from the monks and nuns of Dagda. As you guys get higher up, I think it'll make more sense to make you quest for spells, but at this early stage, it seems like a bit of a drag.

[mb.]

Ah, yeah, I missed the questing bit, but also very glad we don't have to slog through it. If it's cool with you, I'll stick to Bürd's Gran having given him some spells he'll one day be able to understand and learn.

[mb.]

Bürd's dream...

Greataxe gripped tightly in both hands, running flat out through the familiar forest - white winter flatness broken by sharp black trees – Bürd follows an indefinite figure, huge, grunting, and always faster than him. A large keyhole appears in the thing's back as it leaps an unfamiliar crevice. Bürd slides to a halt, unable to make the leap, and realises his greataxe isn't an axe at all; it is a giant silver key covered in delicate runes of unknown meaning.