The Unseen Servant forums

This is a side-track from the Why do we play these games?" thread, and I wanted to get your thoughts on conveying your DM intent.

What if we added a few "similar" references to the game description. In fiction they are called "comp (comparable) titles", if you like LoTR you might like "Series X". It goes deeper than the genre, into the feel of the reference. LoTR is epic in scale and deals with larger than life heroes while GoT is mild porn and tragedy. In my not really humble opinion, anyway.

This might give a better chance to connect players and DMs interested in the same style of game. Honestly, as long as they aren't crunchy then I care very little for the rules used; the DM style drives just about everything for me.

Most of my games are sort of like Discworld.

Mine game is medieval, sandbox D&D.

In my games, I mash up D&D with favorite authors or genres, and try to tease out their themes.

I had Lovecraft D&D.
I did Tolkien D&D.
I had pop culture sci-fi D&D.
And I'm still doing Robert E. Howard D&D.

Like Inferno it depends on the game I am running at the time. My current game on here is set in Harn and is a magical version of 1100 to 1200 Europe with a mix of Roman era barbarians thrown in for good measure. Very D&Dish setting wise.

I want to create a setting that is different. I like the game to be more immersive sandbox than "QUEST" oriented.

I lean towards Sci-Fi over Fantasy because most D&D-like games fall into TROPES [which is hard to avoid since there is little common data to draw from in fantasy except the core tropes ... who will play in a Dwarven-centric campaign where ELVES are the bad guys?]

If I were to try a FANTASY game, I would radically transform the setting:
* Neolithic Warrior-Hunters, Priest-Shamen, Rogue-Scouts, Elementalist-Runecasters ... struggle to hunt, explore, grow/transition to agrarian-pottery-early metalworking.
* Dark Ages [AD 400-600] - a small isolated community surrounded by unknown wilderness ... Beowulf style campaign.
* Cyberpunk Dystopia [without advanced technology] ... graft magic and monsters over a "Clockwork Orange / 1984" urban dystopia

ANYTHING except "High Middle Ages/Renaissance Europe" like LotR.

I would play in any of those. Really like the Elves as bad guy one.

I have run a couple of dark age campaigns over the years. I am currently running a Greek themed campaign. Neolithic would be very cool. Also running a pulp style campaign set in the 1930's.

atpollard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:18 pm I want to create a setting that is different. I like the game to be more immersive sandbox than "QUEST" oriented.

If I were to try a FANTASY game, I would radically transform the setting:
* Neolithic Warrior-Hunters, Priest-Shamen, Rogue-Scouts, Elementalist-Runecasters ... struggle to hunt, explore, grow/transition to agrarian-pottery-early metalworking.

A while back tibbius started a Brone Age Collapse game, Athens Has Fallen. I really enjoyed it. Also, the original RuneQuest game was Bronze Age-y as well; a skill based game with the Power stat governing magic use. It's now "Basic Role-Playing" so you can set it in whatever environment you like.

atpollard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:18 pm * Dark Ages [AD 400-600] - a small isolated community surrounded by unknown wilderness ... Beowulf style campaign.

I've been reading some 100 year's war historical fiction, and there's a lot more from different eras. You might want to pick one you like, recommend a book or two, and then base the game around what's going on in the books. Reading the books would let the players and DM get a good feel for the setting without the DM having to do all the work. Otherwise you have some uppity player writing things about your societies that even you didn't know.

Leitz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:48 pm You might want to pick one you like, recommend a book or two, and then base the game around what's going on in the books. Reading the books would let the players and DM get a good feel for the setting without the DM having to do all the work. Otherwise you have some uppity player writing things about your societies that even you didn't know.

I would love to try this ... not to play, just to see the reaction when you post a READING LIST of 4-6 novels as a prerequisite for entrance into the game!

I am an avid reader so as long as they look interesting to me I would get through them eventually.

atpollard wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:00 pm

Leitz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:48 pm You might want to pick one you like, recommend a book or two, and then base the game around what's going on in the books. Reading the books would let the players and DM get a good feel for the setting without the DM having to do all the work. Otherwise you have some uppity player writing things about your societies that even you didn't know.

I would love to try this ... not to play, just to see the reaction when you post a READING LIST of 4-6 novels as a prerequisite for entrance into the game!

Says the DM that ran a four year game based off one movie...

I said "recommend a book or two"; nothing required, certainly not 4-6. Still, most players are voracious readers. Recommend the first one and many will read the others. Getting a shared vision of the setting helps players really engage in the game. Most (99.999%?) Fantasy gamers have read LoTR and the Hobbit, a total of 7 books in four physical volumes. You voice concern because of the proliferation of LoTR-esque games and yet want to have the same success without the key ingredient!

That's why Traveller never really had the same market share as D&D; there's no shared vision between all participants. Yet there are a few iterations of a Star Wars game as well as Star Trek. Even the Dresden Files books have their own game!

Gamers want setting and story, game companies make a lot of money off of that. Harn is one more d% rule system yet there's tons of setting material. Runequest the original didn't fare well but Pendragon and Call of Cthulhu, both based on the same rules, did much better. The Hero system really got the superhero genre going and there are decades of comic books to fuel the setting

You, or the players, will have to build the setting if you don't use outside source material. It's all a matter of where you want to spend you creative cycles.

Leitz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:13 pm
That's why Traveller never really had the same market share as D&D; there's no shared vision between all participants. Yet there are a few iterations of a Star Wars game as well as Star Trek. Even the Dresden Files books have their own game!

Gamers want setting and story, game companies make a lot of money off of that. Harn is one more d% rule system yet there's tons of setting material. Runequest the original didn't fare well but Pendragon and Call of Cthulhu, both based on the same rules, did much better. The Hero system really got the superhero genre going and there are decades of comic books to fuel the setting

You, or the players, will have to build the setting if you don't use outside source material. It's all a matter of where you want to spend you creative cycles.

This is EXACTLY my problem with Traveller! All my 70s scifi referents are off.

Traveller usually seems closer to Firefly or Blake's 7 or the new BSG, but I was into Space: 1999 and Star Crash and BSG #1 & Buck Rogers. More *pew-pew* than *bang-bang*. Or: more science fantasy than hard scifi.

I just can't wriggle my noggin into it.

TheMyth wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 3:33 am

Leitz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 11:13 pm
That's why Traveller never really had the same market share as D&D; there's no shared vision between all participants. Yet there are a few iterations of a Star Wars game as well as Star Trek. Even the Dresden Files books have their own game!

This is EXACTLY my problem with Traveller! All my 70s scifi referents are off.

Traveller usually seems closer to Firefly or Blake's 7 or the new BSG, but I was into Space: 1999 and Star Crash and BSG #1 & Buck Rogers. More *pew-pew* than *bang-bang*. Or: more science fantasy than hard scifi.

I just can't wriggle my noggin into it.

On a Traveller-centric forum I asked about how space fighter movement works. Turns out, and someone has this in their signature, "The rules as written don't support ships as written." I like the idea of space fighter dogfights, so they happen in my games. I'm flexible with the rules.

atpollard wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:00 pm

Leitz wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2024 8:48 pm You might want to pick one you like, recommend a book or two, and then base the game around what's going on in the books. Reading the books would let the players and DM get a good feel for the setting without the DM having to do all the work. Otherwise you have some uppity player writing things about your societies that even you didn't know.

I would love to try this ... not to play, just to see the reaction when you post a READING LIST of 4-6 novels as a prerequisite for entrance into the game!

I've had two very bad DM experiences in the past few years, and both failures stemmed from a lack of shared vision. The first one stressed me so much that I didn't DM a campaign for a couple of years. Then the second one failed and I haven't done a campaign since.

Leitz poked me so I'll chip in!

Flavour, and a common touchstone of the same, to anchor the shared vision is surely the foundation of a game's collaborative storytelling no matter how broad or narrow that licence is in game. If the "It's sort of like..." hits the mark and engages the players then the game gains traction and more importantly cohesive direction.

Picking points from the thread above you can't beat the Dresden Files for "bad guy elves". For myself they should be somewhat "alien" (at least as far as humans are concerned) as opposed to them sometimes turning up in fantasy games as "helpful sidekicks".

I'll mention Traveller because being such a "blank canvas" there is no given "It's sort of like...". This does make the "sell" much harder for the GM as there is no given template. In my current Traveller Merc campaign which still slowly rumbles on the "It's sort of like..." is the classic old skool Mercenary Films: Wild Geese, Dogs of War, etc. viewforum.php?f=849 In terrymixon's super high tech campaign (interstellar teleports (magic mirrors/gates), pocket universes (demi planes) all powered by Ancient Tech) the hook is "It's sort of like..." high fantasy D&D! viewforum.php?f=1577

If the campaign theme/flavour is already partially or wholly understood by the players (from whatever media: novel, film or sourcebook) then the GM not only has less work to do but also gets something of a "multiplier" on his input.