Expedition: Ablesforth: The Demon Hole - 14 July 2021

[Rusty Tincanne]

Able has 2pp to his name. Not enough to help out at all. Dare and Grimble were on their first adventures, iirc. And Idriss and Dolph are Templars, so I'd be surprised if they were hoarding any wealth. Maybe Neegan, but I figure he'd have bought something other than silver tipped arrows before the adventure.

My understanding was that gemstones, etc are usable at full face value, but objects d'art needed to be cashed out. If I'm wrong, I like your idea of trading them in for healing potions or other useful things.

If we send stuff south, each character shares the risk of success/failure equally, and we're all see a windfall (or not) in the game months time. (Is that a year in real time?)

The reason this works in this party is the high number of NPCs (Grimble, Idriss and Dolph), and three long time PCs/players (Zhym, Dram and me). Mister Kent is the anomaly, being relatively new to the game and less active. But 12gp is more than enough to stay in town and resupply (not that it is needed if folks were carrying preserved rations) before finding a new, more lucrative expedition.

[Zhym]

I really don't care for the "send it south" plan. That takes three months. Three months ago real time was August 5, 2016. I don't see a point in waiting two years with a 10% chance of loss.

At any rate, that kind of risk is something a PC (or player) can only accept for himself. When distributing loot, it hardly seems fair to say, "You'll totally get your share in three months. Probably. More or less." If Able wants to pay the face value of the items into the pot and accept the delay, risk of loss, and uncertainty, he's free to do so. But we shouldn't force everyone to take that.

So the problem with paying in to get items is that the Templers can't divide loot because Templars don't hoard loot? Am I the only one seeing irony in that?

Pendleton has enough to buy in for either of the items. That means we need just one more to make that method work. If Templars are all about avoiding material wealth, how about we donate the mask to the infirmary in the name of two Templars?

BTW, if we decide to draw lots for the pitcher now, whoever gets it shouldn't also get an even share of loot. So the loot split under that scenario would be:

1) Pitcher
2) Periapt (600 gp), pay in 434 gp = 164 gp
3) Mask (350 gp), pay in 175 gp = 175 gp (or donate to the Infirmary in the place of two Templar shares)
4) 5 fire beetle organs (@10 gp), 125 gp = 175 gp
5) Brooch (20 gp), 156 gp = 174 gp
6) 175 gp
6) 175 gp

[Rusty Tincanne]

Hmm. I hadn't realized it was 2 years in RL. i sent a few things south a bit ago for Clay. c'est la vie.

And it isnt that Templars cannot accrue wealth, it just has to be able tobe carried around. So gems and things are perfect. Able has passed his share of loot at least once, beenon a bust mission (or two) and then spent all his coin for the first Demon Hole expedition (silvering his maul, creating holy water, etc).

[Zhym]

Sending things south is really a bad deal. The expected return is -9.55% of its nominal value, with a 10% chance of getting nothing and a 90% chance of getting, on average, 0.5% over nominal value (with high variability). You'd be better off using the items as gambling stakes.

If Templars can carry money, there's no reason they shouldn't have 20-30 pp pocketed away.

Buying in to the treasure works well if you're going to be spending a bunch anyway. For example, if someone had some money and wanted to do a donation or self-promotion for XP, a PC who already has 20pp could pay it into the pot (or 175, if we also distribute the pitcher now) to get the Big Damn Demon Head, then use the Big Damn Demon Head for his XP. Or a Templar might want to lighten his load by paying pp into the pot to get the periapt.

[Dram]

Neegan- Is going to bow out of the next adventure into the Demonhole. He was a liability with no protection from evil during most of the ordeal. He is going to head Beith's Watch. He heard there is mission that he may be of more help. He will give Able his remaining 2 flasks of holy water. Neegan will be at the Tavern a couple of nights.

[Marullus]

You can donate to any church... If you give all the indivisible objects to the Templar church, it converts to XP and I will just divide XP evenly.

[Rusty Tincanne]

Marullus, can you please give clarity regarding using objects d'art as cash, like we do with gems?

Also, Zhym's point about 3 months in game time being 2 years in RL has me wondering if that rule makes sense. Sorry-wise it does, but it makes it pretty much a moot point. No one is ever likely to use the option.

[Marullus]

Both gems and object d'art can be used at full value with NPCs, but the NPCs don't give change. (You spend it all, or waste it) Effectively, NPCs take the risk of "sending it south" for you as they DO expect to still be alive in three IC months.

I already had decided to modify the "Sending south" rules so you don't take a loss when doing so... apparently I didn't update the documentation, so I'll need to look back at my notes and do so. If you have a suggestion for better math, feel free to make it on the OOC forum. As for the passage of time, there's more projects going on (which advances the clock faster) and we're going to jump forward when you get snowed in over the winter (which was mentioned when you picked non-class skills). But yeah, our current expeditions are taking 6-8 months. That wasn't expected. The rule was already used by PCs, who did get paid-out.

[Zhym]

I've suggested five different loot distributions. I'm done. If people want to get moving on the next expedition, let me know when you're ready.

[Rusty Tincanne]

Now that we know objects d'art can be used at face value, I really like the last distribution. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, Able can't buy anyone out.

Marullus, Dolph wouldn't happen to have that much coin laying around and be interested in buying it a share, would he?

I'll PM mister_kent, dram and sirravd, asking them to weigh in on loot distribution, some they haven't responded to the options at hand.

[Zhym]

As I mentioned, Pendleton could buy out the periapt. Of course, the mask is so damned big that it's only useful to someone who is planning to make a big expenditure right away.

[Rusty Tincanne]

As I mentioned, Pendleton could buy out the periapt. Of course, the mask is so damned big that it's only useful to someone who is planning to make a big expenditure right away.

Or not continuing to participate in the sandbox.

The other thing is that Idriss is a.mummer and already has one mask. Maybe he'd want another? It, considering Spearmint is off line for an undetermined length of time, perhaps his PC could take it and send it south. Then Idriss would have a windfall when Spearmint returns.

Marullus: was Dolph a full or half share?

Able would be willing to take the pitcher as his share.

Do we want to hire the bard? Able will pay 10-15gp towards it.

[Zhym]

The other thing is that Idriss is a.mummer and already has one mask. Maybe he'd want another? It, considering Spearmint is off line for an undetermined length of time, perhaps his PC could take it and send it south. Then Idriss would have a windfall when Spearmint returns.

That's not a bad idea.

[Dram]

Here is yet another possible split based on people being able to pay in (and assuming we can convert silver to gold easily enough):

1) Periapt (600 gp), pay in 459 gp = 141 gp
2) Mask (350 gp), pay in 200 gp = 150 gp
3) 5 fire beetle organs (@10 gp), 100 gp = 150 gp
4) Brooch (20 gp), 131 gp = 149 gp
5) 150 gp
6) 150 gp
7) 150 gp

Total: 1040 gp.

Shares with easily portable gem-like items are slightly lower to account for the usefulness of being able to wear 600gp around your neck.

That leaves the pitcher out of it, but we can either draw lots for that or wait to distribute it until we finish the mission, with a promise to the members of the current party that they'll be included in however it's eventually distributed.

Neegan likes this idea. Neegan does have 20pp to donate the cause if that helps.

[Rusty Tincanne]

Neegan likes this idea. Neegan does have 20pp to donate the cause if that helps.

It really only helps if he wants the Demon Mask. Does he have any interest in spending 350gp on any one thing, like a building? Or 7 healing potions? Or does he have an interest in donating it to a church for XP?

[sirravd]

Grimble voices his agreement with Pendleton's plan. "These foul devils, these maggoty ghouls, they must be purged from fair Gaul!" Further, he pledges his hammer-arm to the party on their return to the demon hole.

[Dram]

Neegan likes this idea. Neegan does have 20pp to donate the cause if that helps.

It really only helps if he wants the Demon Mask. Does he have any interest in spending 350gp on any one thing, like a building? Or 7 healing potions? Or does he have an interest in donating it to a church for XP?

Neegan is able to donate 20pp to the church as he getting ready to set off on another mission.

[Zhym]

So everyone is okay with this distribution?

Option A:
1) Periapt (600 gp), -459 gp = 141 gp - Pendleton
2) Mask (350 gp), -200 gp = 150 gp - Neegan
3) 5 fire beetle organs (@10 gp), 100 gp = 150 gp - Idriss
4) Brooch (20 gp), 131 gp = 149 gp - Able
5) 150 gp - Dolph
6) 150 gp - Dare
7) 150 gp - Grimble

The pitcher is almost certainly worth a lot more than 175 gp (if we split cash value six ways). So in this plan, we keep the pitcher as unsplit loot until we get back. If we can close the hell hole, we should have more magical items to split, which would make splitting the loot easier next time.

Or we do this, and agree that the next split takes into account that Able already got the only magic item from this split:

Option B:
1) Periapt (600 gp), -434 gp = 166 gp - Pendleton
2) Mask (350 gp), -175 gp = 175 gp - Neegan
3) 5 fire beetle organs (@10 gp), 125 gp = 175 gp - Idriss
4) Brooch (20 gp), 154 gp = 174 gp - Grimble
5) 175 gp - Dolph
6) 175 gp - Dare
7) Pitcher (4001 XP): Able

Unless someone has a major objection to either, I suggest we vote on option A or option B, go with whatever the majority is, and get going with the next expedition.

[Rusty Tincanne]

Able will vote for option A. He reminds the party (again) about the bard.

He has no problem with this, but Grimble and Pendleton (and Dolph) might not want to agree with taking the risk of going back down to get more magical items to split with Neegan, Idriss and Dare, who have only gone down and retrieved the pitcher.

[Zhym]

I wasn't contemplating splitting magic items found in the next delve with anyone who didn't go. But if we find more magic items (and possibly treasure), we should be in a better position to cut them their share of whatever the value of the pitcher is.

Speaking of which, I wonder if we've seen enough loot distributions to have an idea of a standard valuation for imbued magic items. That would make loot distributions easier if we could all agree that a 2,001 XP item is worth X, a 4,001 XP item is worth Y, etc.