OOC I

[Bouv]

Unless TK says otherwise, I always assumed Tratiln would wear his shield on his left arm and carry the torch in his left hand then drop the torch when combat begins in order to use his shield (as I don't think anyone would want a blazing torch moving around as they try to block with a shield!)

[sulldawga]

Yes, one does need the First Aid skill. It certainly would make sense for Semele to have the First Aid skill; it seems I never added skills for her. I shall address that this evening.

Actually, she doesn't have that skill. I asked TK if it was ok to give her skills and he said yes. I gave her Religious Lore and Nature Lore, as well as Warhammer and Sling proficiency.

[sulldawga]

I assume this is our chance to find out where Bargle's hideout is?

[zebediah]

I think at this stage we could do more about Elwyn than about Bargle.

[thirdkingdom]

Yes, one does need the First Aid skill. It certainly would make sense for Semele to have the First Aid skill; it seems I never added skills for her. I shall address that this evening.

Actually, she doesn't have that skill. I asked TK if it was ok to give her skills and he said yes. I gave her Religious Lore and Nature Lore, as well as Warhammer and Sling proficiency.

Noted.

[thirdkingdom]

I assume this is our chance to find out where Bargle's hideout is?

You guys should come to a consensus as to your question. The only advice I would give is to avoid subjective questions, such as "Should we do X".

[riftstone]

Wait, I was right???

Somebody else ask the question. Elwyn would probably be best to ask about.

[frobozz]

Since Bargle was in these caves recently, and possibly even known personally to the Magic Mouth, Lanny would suggest inquiring about the whereabouts of Bargle. Here is what the party knows about his location thus far (from the letter from Bargle to Elwyn):

"E -- Here are all of the goods that we have discussed. Remember what you owe me, now. Be prepared to act no later than Midsummer's Eve. As I have business to the North, it is unlikely we will speak until then -- B"

"The North" could be anywhere... It would be good to narrow down his possible location a little further. It might even give the authorities a lead to explore while the party is busy going after Elwyn (and we should find out Elwyn's location soon enough from the scouting party).

Lanny votes for:

"In what city and country is Bargle the Magic-User physically located at this moment?"

[Bouv]

I agree with either locating Bargle or Elwyn or what the plan is (i.e. what do Bargle & Elwyn have planned for Midsummer's Eve?)

[rremedio]

Having business in the north doesn't mean that his hideout is there. If the man is moving, this information might prove useless when we are ready to face him. I think if we will ask about Bargle we should ask where his base is.

[zebediah]

Having business in the north doesn't mean that his hideout is there. If the man is moving, this information might prove useless when we are ready to face him. I think if we will ask about Bargle we should ask where his base is.

This.

Plus, we don't know if Bargle is in a city.

I still think at this point it's more useful to locate Elwyn as (i) he was instructed by Bargle to take some action, so he is the iminent threat, (ii) we don't know if the scouting party will be successful in locating him, (iii) even if we find out where Bargle is now there is little we can do against him at this point in time and once we are able to do something he might have gone elsewhere.

[frobozz]

Having business in the north doesn't mean that his hideout is there. If the man is moving, this information might prove useless when we are ready to face him. I think if we will ask about Bargle we should ask where his base is.

Good point. Although if Bargle does not have a permanent base or hideout, per se, then that might prove to be an unanswerable question. I would think that most magic-users of his power would have a tower or something, but given that he is a wanted man on the run, he may no longer have a permanent residence anywhere...

I still think at this point it's more useful to locate Elwyn as (i) he was instructed by Bargle to take some action, so he is the iminent threat, (ii) we don't know if the scouting party will be successful in locating him, (iii) even if we find out where Bargle is now there is little we can do against him at this point in time and once we are able to do something he might have gone elsewhere.

OK, I agree with Zebediah. But the wording of the question is important. Is we ask "Where is Elwyn?", we might get the answer "He is in his hideout." If we ask "Where is Elwyn's hideout?", we might get the answer "Five hundred paces from the waters of the Highreach River." How about something of this nature:

"How many miles from Penhaligon is the redoubt that is currently being built by Elwyn the Cleric?"

I'm not sure of a better way to ask a question regarding location... Any other ideas???

[zebediah]

Please describe, in as much detail as you can, the path one must take to go from Threshold to the hideout currently being used by Elwyn, the evil cleric.

That's what I would use in court.

[rremedio]

Good point. Although if Bargle does not have a permanent base or hideout, per se, then that might prove to be an unanswerable question. I would think that most magic-users of his power would have a tower or something, but given that he is a wanted man on the run, he may no longer have a permanent residence anywhere...

Yes, and being the Monastery of the Silent Singers he may very well reply with some song lyrics full of riddles

Surely the wording is very important. I can't think of better way to ask than what zebediah suggested. Anyway we have to vote for the one we will ask about.

I vote for Elwyn.

[frobozz]

Please describe, in as much detail as you can, the path one must take to go from Threshold to the hideout currently being used by Elwyn, the evil cleric.

That's what I would use in court.

There's only one problem with that question: it is not a question!

I think we have to ask something that has a definite and quantifiable answer. I would make the following tiny revisions to my first submission:

"How many miles from the City of Penhaligon is the redoubt that is currently being built for Elwyn the Cleric?"

Remember, we already know it is on the Highreach River, so, based on the number of miles from Penhaligon, it can only be in exactly two possible places (either one way along the river, or the other way). I think if we ask the question in a way that does not elicit a definite and quantifiable answer, this Big Mouth will find a way to screw us over - I am certain of that!

[zebediah]

I can assure you that's a legitimate wide open question: it's asking the mouth to give you a description.

Asking about the distance is fine given that we have a general idea of the region. I would avoid the wording "that is currently being built" as it might have already been concluded, I think "Elwyn's current hideout" or something like that should do the trick.

[rremedio]

Maybe: "What is the detailed path one should to take from Threshold to find the latest hideout of Elwyn, the evil cleric?"

[zebediah]

Looks good to me, but remember the more specific you make the question the easier you make for the respondant to give you an useless answer. When you want to obtain more and better information the "explain" and "describe" types of questions are always more effective than closed ones and even than well worded "what" and "how" questions.

This should be fine here as the enchantment doesn't seem to be of ill nature but I would be very careful in a similar situation involving, for example, an efreeti or a wish spell.

[frobozz]

I can assure you that's a legitimate wide open question: it's asking the mouth to give you a description.

Asking about the distance is fine given that we have a general idea of the region. I would avoid the wording "that is currently being built" as it might have already been concluded, I think "Elwyn's current hideout" or something like that should do the trick.

Zeb - First of all, my apologies if I came across the wrong way in my last post - that was not my intention. I was just thinking that what you had suggested was more of a command than a question.

The reason I used the words "that is currently being built" is because the electrum from the chest that we confiscated was to help finish building the redoubt (per the captured emissary). "Elwyn's current hideout" is probably the same location as the redoubt, but then again it might not be.

If we do use distance, we might even want to choose a point further away (such as the City of Specularum, which is on the coast and at one end of the Highreach River). That way, the total number of miles indicated would likely point to only one exact location, not two.

Not to get too overly technical, but we might even want to say "the Elwyn the Cleric that we are seeking" or "the Elwyn the Cleric to whom this letter from Bargle is addressed".

I am just thinking that asking for a detailed path is problematic because it is still somewhat subjective in nature.

[zebediah]

No worries man. We're all just trying to make sense - in a very complicated way - of a make-believe game. Gets even better with a beer.

But I get your point, indeed there are many variables including the amount of knowledge the enchantment is drawing upon. You can mitigate that with the wording of the question, for example: "the straightest (or quickest) path a rider can take between point A and point B". There are inumerous paths one can take, but only one will be the straightest/quickest.

I think we can boil down our current suggestions to (i) asking him to describe the path we should take or (ii) asking a measure of the distance.

Maybe we should do a quick vote on the above and then we build the wording. Or am I overcomplicating this?