OOC Discussion

[rossik]

complex and nice, thanks!

i hope to learn the rules before Durganor die, hehhe.

Now i have "Afraid" as a condition. That means i cant kill the goblin, as intended by the dwarf?

[Marullus]

We're going slow and all learning - ask questions!

You can still kill the goblin -

Afraid (Ob 3 Will): Can't help or use Beginner's Luck

You can overcome your fear and take any direct action you wish. Being afraid makes you unable to focus on helping others or attempt actions with skills you don't have (beginner's luck).

So, murdering the goblin in the dark? Still okay. You have 1D fighter, can spend your one Persona point for +1D, and can add Cunning or Foolhardy to it for +1D, against the goblin who has at least 3D. You should seek additional advantages.

You can do a check to recover from Afraid when in Camp Phase, but for that you need a Check to spend, which allows the test.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

I assume he earned two checks because he broke the tie in the goblin's favor?

Being Angry you won't be able to help anyone else on their tests, nor will you be able to use Beginner's Luck. We can still help you with your tests. For game flavor you could "spice" up your in-character comments to reflect your angriness at the stubbornness of goblins, etc. Doing that is a "good thing", because at the end of a session we, the party, votes on who "role-played" the best. The winner gets a Personna point. Spending Fate and Personna is how your character gains experience level, as soon as you've spent 3 Fate and 3 Personna then the next Town Phase we do you immediately advance to level 2, and gain whatever class skills that grants you.

Beginner's Luck is when you try to do a skill that you don't already have. It's somewhat complicated but basically you use your Health or Will stat (depending on whether it is a physical or mental skill) instead of the skill stat (because you don't have that skill). Add in bonuses, etc, then halve it rounded ?up?. Then add in help from others. I think that's the order but I could be wrong. Then make the test as normal, rolling however many dice the formula says you get. Pass/Fail results are applied the same as a regular test.

But instead of marking a pass or a failure for that skill you just mark the attempt. Then once you have attempted that skill N times, where N is your starting Nature value, say 4, then you gain that skill at level 2.

So, having a high Nature, say 5 or 6, makes it good to tap your Nature for extra dice (you're really good at doing dwarfy things) but the downside is that it is hard to learn new skills. A low Nature, say 2, means you could learn skills easier, but if you need to tap your Nature to gain extra dice for some really tough test, you just don't have that many extra. Nature can fluctuate, but it it ever gets to 0 or 7 then your character retires from the adventuring life. When it does you have until the next winter phase, I believe, to try to adjust your Nature back to something normal. At 7 you become so ingrained in your race/culture that you retire to become a ... (probably a miner or blacksmith for dwarfs, a farmer for humans, etc). If it ever drops to 0 then you have lost what-ever defines you as a dwarf and you wander off to spend the rest of your life communing with the trees and birds and longing for the sea.

Hope this helps.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

So, murdering the goblin in the dark? Still okay. You have 1D fighter, can spend your one Persona point for +1D, and can add Cunning or Foolhardy to it for +1D, against the goblin who has at least 3D. You should seek additional advantages.

Depending on our illustrious GM's mood, if you decide to kill the goblin in his sleep, perhaps a +1D or even a +1s could be applied? Also possibly a +1D for Might difference?
+1D = 1 extra die
+1s = one automatic success to your skill test if you tie or outright beat the goblin's skill test

Might difference: all living things have an OoM (Order of Might). Most adventurers are 3 (there are a couple races/classes that are 2 or 4, but humans, elves, and dwarves are 3's). Normal, non-adventuring humans are 2. Goblins are 2 as well, I believe. So in any kill/capture/drive off conflict you would get an extra N dice (N = OoM difference) just because you're bigger and badder than he is. I think the goblin would also lose a die because of it.

So, if in the middle of the night during your watch, you of course would "volunteer" to take that watch shift. You could initiate a conflict with the goblin. I would say that the rest of us could not help since we're "asleep".

You then determine what type of conflict it will be. It sounds like it's a "Kill" conflict. You then determine how many hit points you have. This is determined independently for each conflict. Divide the hit points up to everyone on your team in the fight. Then pick your weapon(s). Then pick three actions that you will do in this conflict. the actions are: Attack, Defend, Feint, Maneuver. You pick all three, in which order, and who gets to use them. Since this will probably be just you then you would get all the hit points and would take all the actions.

Then you start the fight. You would start with +3D due to your fighter skill, add +1D because you're using a sword (swords add +1D to any one type of conflict, you pick which type for each fight. Pick one of Attack, Defend, Feint, Maneuver that the sword will help you). Attack and Feint are the only way to actually cause damage.
Add +1D due to your Might difference. Add +1D or +1s for GM generosity. But explain why.
Since you gained the Angry condition while interrogating the goblin you lost the +1D for being Fresh until we spend time in a town.

So you will probably have +5D +1s, or +6D vs the goblin's +1D (assuming he has fighter 3, loses one for Might difference, and if he no sword himself (we're not going to let him anywhere near a sharp object) then loses a +1D for being unarmed).

Then both sides reveal their first action. Say it's Attack vs Attack. I think that's an Independent test. You roll your 6 dice and each success takes one hit point from the goblin. The goblin rolls his 1 die and any successes are taken from your hit points. If you are wearing armour then you could negate one or more of any hits on you (one hit for armour, one hit for helmet, and maybe one hit for shield). Armour used to block hits is usually damaged and cannot be used again until repaired.

If after the first round you both still have hit points left, reveal the second action card. Repeat for the third action if needed. If neither of you are reduced to 0 hit points by then you redo this for the next 3 actions.

In a year+ of GMing Torchbearer I can only think of one or two battles that have gone to the second set of actions. Fight conflicts tend to be quick and brutal.

Once one of you has been reduced to 0 hits the conflict is over. Whoever has hit points left gets the victory. But...
If you kill the goblin but he does "significant" damage to you, then the GM gets a compromise: You kill the goblin, but he gashed your arm biting you with his dying attack - you are now Injured. Or you could become Exhausted. Or a Twist - the fight was loud enough to attract a guard's attention.

So, a possible outcome could be: you kill the goblin, but gain an Injury, and your helmet is damaged. You now have the Angry and Injured conditions, and you can't use your helmet to negate damage until it's repaired. You can repair it in a Camp Phase by using a Check and then doing an Armourer skill test. But you probably want to use a Check to heal your Injury first. But since you cannot use two Checks in a row someone else would have to use the second check, perhaps they can fix your helmet?

[Marullus]

He is Afraid, not Angry.

He didn't earn any checks because he didn't choose to break the tie in the goblin's favor. He took his chances and rolled the Tiebreaker test based on his will. (See what's in the spoiler tags on the other thread's posts - it's all laid out there.)

Continuing the solid roleplay, including portraying being inwardly Afraid as he deals with the post-traumatic stress of his own goblin-influenced past, is always good. Yes, someone will end up with an extra Persona point for Embodiment at the end of the session... I hope it is a tough choice because of all the good RP here.

For your second post... depending on the importance to the story, it might be just a Versus instead of a multi-action Combat. But we'll explore that all when it is relevant to the current IC posts. Right now, it is almost dawn and the group has choices to make!


A few additional points:

• A "session" is normally a few hours at a gaming table. For a Play by Post game, we're going to make an artificial break every 9-14 turns or so. That impacts earning your Fate and Persona awards and also resets your positive use of Traits (which can be used once per session.)
• A Turn is one action/roll. (Rolls being done due to your Instinct don't trigger the turn counter.)
• Note that the Grind will give you all conditions every four turns. A good conservative practice is to have the group take a break and "camp" after every third turn if you're not in too much danger to do so. Camping is what resets the Turn count to avoid the Grind and also allows you to do your camp actions and try to recover. You need at least one Check in the group in order to camp.

[Enoch]

[*]Note that the Grind will give you all conditions every four turns. A good conservative practice is to have the group take a break and "camp" after every third turn if you're not in too much danger to do so. Camping is what resets the Turn count to avoid the Grind and also allows you to do your camp actions and try to recover. You need at least one Check in the group in order to camp.[/list]

The corollary to this (since camping requires at least one player have checks) is that to camp by the third turn, players have to be aggressive about using traits against themselves (or breaking ties in their opponents' favor).

The biggest reason to do this is to avoid Hungry and Thirsty on the fourth turn. However, it's not so much to avoid the condition itself (which is easily remedied, especially if you camp near a source of water), but to avoid losing Fresh. Since most of us have lost that already, it's not as big a deal.

[rossik]

guys, i will be very busy this weekend with boring RL stuff. i will try to post ASAP

[BillTheGalacticHero]

Is there secluded woods nearby? I need to hide/secure my horse before we climb down a cliff face.

[Marullus]

Oh, right.

We can say you left it at your old campsite. You will find out what happened when you go back there.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

Making a test to retroactively hide it? One of the reasons why I choose "Staying in the shadows"-wise, thinking it might be useful for hiding myself and/or my horse.

[Marullus]

No, it will just be a Camp Events check. I will assume you made it a safe camp.

[BillTheGalacticHero]

Ok, I will assume that I hid my saddle, bit, bridle, and spurs up in a tree, and that I've rolled up my saddle blanket and wearing it on my torso, like a Civil War soldier's blanket roll.

[Marullus]

Sure - put it on your sheet as "Torso 1/Pack 2" like a cloak.

[Stirling]

Sorry been away for a week. Caught up reading now and posted action.

Might have liked to just walk up to gate with goblin escapee. Guards might have let us in, humans anyway and we could have checked out the shrine.

[drpete]

Hi guys!

Sorry I didn't respond to the initial call to return, I was busy with personal stuff, away from the board. I'm going to read the thread and try to get caught up with the action

[drpete]

I'm a little confused about the plan, at the moment. Aren't we going to camp? I see a bunch of different ways to move the grind forward being attempted?

[Enoch]

Not sure. Several people have jumped in and said they want to take actions. Normally if you declare an action the GM just straight up sets an obstacle, but I think Maullus is trying to guide everyone through this since several players may not understand the effects of their actions.

That said, the Grind's been explained several times, so I wouldn't be surprised if he just shrugs and lets us learn the hard way. We're right next to a stream, so the major effect is that the people with Fresh would lose it.

[Marullus]

I'm being a little lenient on the action-posting as 1) we have a number of players still learning and 2) going with the first-action-posted in a play-by-post isn't entirely fair. I allowed the "learning moment" and that it would be Stirling's call as to whether we pushed ahead to looking for the shaman or if we camped and he chose camp. I see Grimm narrating his help to Cu Aislin's test to get the advancement, which is fine. I see Ganna trying to support Clough's attempt to find the shaman, but that action was called off. Clough suggested a Cartographer test in the same post he said he was NOT advancing the Grind, so I assume he's thinking of it as a Camp action. There's some conversation and roleplay going on which I need to respond to IC (and that's always allowed and always good).

That means this is an opportunity to pause and address Instincts both and Camp. You've experienced a few tests and we've seen the Grind advance. Now we need to talk about those things that alleviate that process.

Instincts
An instinct is each character's once chance to break a rule. This is often used as a way to get free tests that are important to your character that don't trigger the Grind, but not always. (Clough is a good example of a different way - his instinct of "let others go first" a la "the second mouse gets the cheese" insulates him from penalty when Helping. Every character can do this by helping with their Wise but he invests his Instinct to make sure his selfish ways benefit him all the time.)

Besides Clough, EVERYONE has an instinct that triggers some kind of test and most are applicable at this current moment. I want to pause and have this discussion explicitly and let you each have your time in the spotlight. It is important to note that Instinct Tests are almost always done alone and without help. (You can only help each other with Instinct Tests if you have overlapping Instincts that trigger at the same time for the same thing.)

Durganor - Always look for good trash.
Perfectly appropriate for him to activate this at the side of a stream below an encampment (and its an easy place to find stuff). He can call for this test any time - I will set an obstacle for him (an easy one, along the stream where trash washes through) and let him roll it. He can find something randomly useful (at a lower obstacle) or look for something for a specific type of need (with a higher obstacle). This is a great test to activate before camp as we learn now.

Haar - Always look for new ingredients
Very similar to Durganor above. It also can be activated any time. He can leave it to me to define an ingredient or he can search for something more specific with a harder test. In both cases, along a stream is a good place. If they activate it in a more difficult place, they face potential failure (and consequences) for their action just like any other test. Also, it should be noted that if they're successful they find something useful that then needs to be carried, so equipment slots are important. Also, they can only test once per location. Yes, they can test in each location, but the risk of failure and the consequence of success on their backpacks are natural limiters. This also can be activated now before camp, if he likes.

Grimm - If I have an audience, always tell a story.
This is partially an event-triggered instinct. Whenever he feels appropriate, he can call for an Orator test to tell his tales to a group. He has flexibility in what the desired effect of his tale is on that group. If he is telling tales one-on-one it is Persuader or Falsehood instead. This is flavorful and flexible as an instinct, but limited to when he has an audience.

Ganna - Always charge my wand when making camp or returning to town
This is an event-triggered instinct. It triggers every time we enter camp-phase or town-phase and lets Ganna have a free test to recharge her wand. As a witch, that was important to her, so she made it her instinct. This means she can do this without spending any Checks, and lack of Checks can never prevent her from doing so. (At this moment, she hasn't expended the charges from her wand, so this won't have an effect.) Other common event-triggered instincts are "always brew an elixir in camp" for an Alchemist or "always make a poultice in camp" for a Healer, both of which also apply to Ganna. These are persistent items that help recovery from Conditions and they can be stored until later if you have room in your pack. Whichever one she picks is free. The other options can be tried by spending a Check normally.

Cu Aislin - Always look for a suitable site for camping.
Tancred - Always prepare a hidden camp
These are event-triggered instincts - whenever the group is about to camp, this triggers a free test to make camp safe before we do. That's a specific mechanical benefit. This is a good example of linked instincts! They can help each other. I interpret both of these instincts as "make camp more safe," which is specifically related to the making-camp rules (which I'll discuss below). In that case, there's only one test made and one of them makes it while the other helps. If they want to make an arguement that one of their instincts is for some OTHER effect, they can argue it.

Sidenote: It is worth noting that there are other times that a test is needed for an action but it doesn't advance the Grind. The main example is Spells. Casting a spell doesn't take up a turn but does require a test. So, Cu Aislin can use his Sacrifice prayer to offer his speckled trout to his Gods before camp without advancing the Grind, same as if it were an instinct. Likewise, Ganna could cast her spell from her wand and change someone's appearance, if there were a reason to do so, and it would also be free.

Camp
You can call for camp any time you have a reasonably safe opportunity (no imminent danger you know of, like being chased or actively threatened by something), and you have a Check. Calling for Camp triggers a set of specific game actions that I will explain below. It represents "taking a break and composing yourselves" and doesn't necessarily mean sleeping the night. It generally includes a campfire and allows Camp actions like cooking, recovery, making elixirs, etc. Camp also resets the turn count and allows traditional spellcasters to refresh their spell lists (but that doesn't apply to Ganna, which is why she made her instinct).

When you call for camp:

• I tell you if it is Typical, Unsafe, or Dangerous for camping. (you can guess from context, but I don't otherwise tell you until you're committed.)
• At this point, instincts like those of Tancred and Cu Aislin trigger and let you make a test with Survivalist to "make it safer."
• I then make a roll on the Camp Events tables. (If you were successful in your Survivalist test, you get +1)
• You have a slim chance of Disaster (almost always eliminated by the +1 if earned) and otherwise can have a inconvenience event or a lucky break. I narrate what happens during this camp accordingly.
• Once that's done, trigger instincts that occur in camp (like Ganna's.)
• Then you spend your Checks. Each check allows one test. (You are entering camp with two checks, currently.)
• When all checks are spent, camp ends and you begin a new Adventure phase with four tests until the next Grind.

Spending Checks
One of the most common is cooking food. You can stretch a single ration into a meal for the whole group if you do a test in camp. This is a great way to stretch your rations and Haar is built to do it. You don't need to do this during this camp since you're by the stream and slaking your hunger/thirst is easy.

As a general statement, Ganna (as a Witch) is almost entirely a camp-phase oriented character. Healer, Alchemist, Cook, and Enchanter are almost exclusively used in Camp phase, and those are the Witch's main abilities. Haar is keen on cooking, so he's also heavy in the camp phase. Earning checks and camping often is good for your group.

Alleviating conditions. Durganor can only try to recover from being Afraid in camp. This has a few options:

• He spends a Check and tests to snap himself out of it. He already narratively drank his wine to steel his nerves, an act that gives him +1D. He has an Ob3 Will test. He has 3D Will. He can use a Trait to help himself normally as well. (Traits can't be used to earn checks during Camp, though.)
• A Healer (probably Ganna) can use a check to make a Poultice first, which then gives an additional +1D to his recovery test from Afraid. A poultice for Afraid is Ob 2, and Ganna has 4D Healer skill (plus a trait). She can also get a +1D for materials if Haar or Durgenor finds her helpful ingredients near the stream for the poultice. (With a check for the poultice and then a check for recovery, this uses two checks to get Durganor on his feet.)
• An Alchemist (also Ganna) could use a check to make an Elixir. An Elixir is then free to drink and lets someone recover from a condition without a recovery test. Elixirs can also be carried and drunk outside the camp phase. An elixir to recover from Afraid is Ob 2. Ganna has 3D from Alchemist and can use traits or ingredients for this the same as Healer. (Pharmacists provide more immediate relief for less Checks, but if the patient never does Will tests to recover themselves, their Will won't ever advance and get higher.)
• Making a map. This can be done in camp with a check, but it also can be done outside of camp (where it advances the Grind). A successful map-making allows you to traverse back through where you've been - it is a key mechanical effect in the game. (In this case, successfully knowing the way back up the cliffside safely, for example.) Clough already hinted that he wants to do this. It's a good option if you have leftover checks, or you can do it after camp.

Hopefully that helps everyone. You can strategize your tests and order of events here and then go post back in the gameplay thread. Finding specific trash washed-up from the dead Shaman could be Durgenor's instinct, or you can pursue it as a whole-group effort after camp (and advance the Grind). Finding ingredients along the stream that help an elixir or a poultice fits well for Haar but could also potentially be for Durgenor. How you want to approach getting Durganor back to himself (particularly what actions Ganna wants to take to help him) also is important. Tancred and Cu Aislin both need to decide how their "Camp Safety" checks are going to be pursued, too.

[Marullus]

An additional lesson - how to mark advancement.

To advance a skill, you need to pass a number of tests equal to its current rating and fail a number of tests equal to its current rating minus one.

Example: Grimm just helped Cu Aislin, using his Laborer skill to help with the Hunting test.

LABORER: 2
Advancement: -

He needs to pass 2 tests and fail 1 test, then advancement resets and Laborer advances to 3. I like to mark it by counting and using the coding to provide a hyperlink. Forums are nice that way and it makes auditing and remembering what you did easier. You can right click and copy the URL for a specific post from the title field of that post.

Like this:

LABORER: 2
Advancement: Pass: 1; Fail: 0

[rossik]

wow...nice!

Enoch, dont be upset. We are learing a new game, after (i believe) many years of D&D-like play.

So, do i have to retcon, or my search can be done at camp?