OOC Discussion

[ffilz]

Would Samurai ever go around with nothing that reveals their master?

[Marullus]

Do masters of Samurai vary? Does the whole province serve a single Daimyo?
For that matter, what is the Bushido difference between a "Samurai" and a "Samurai in service"?

The only real clarifying note in Book I is...

If the Samurai remains in service to his Lord, the Gamesmaster will use the rules governing Retainers, in Book 2, to determine his stipend or fief, and to keep track of his obligations to his Lord.

In Book II it says...

Samurai in service to Provincial Daimyo

...which is a little more descriptive.

Daimyo
Daimyo, the feudal overlords who rule Nippon's provinces, are men of tremendous authority and power. They command instant and unlimited loyalty from their samurai, all of whom are ready to die for their lord at a moment's notice. Great rewards: lands, honors, even elevation to the Buke, all lie within a Daimyo's gift. His word is law within his domains. Characters encountering a Daimyo should be on their best behavior on pain of instant attack by the lord's samurai or an invitation to commit seppuku.

It then defines a Pretender as someone (including a PC) who raises an army and attempts to wrest a Daimyo of control, then get recognized by the Emperor as the new Daimyo. (Which is insightful for our current 'war camp' and the level of conflict being assumed here.)

I have been assuming that Samurai Clan / Family is the prevailing identification as we haven't seen anything in either game at the Daimyo level, and that level feels much more abstract to me. I feel like actual answers here require some RL knowledge that I don't have and don't see in the Bushido game system.

[jemmus]

Historically (not necessarily in Bushido Nippon), they wouldn't normally have anything identifying their master. They would instead have their own family kamon insignia on their clothing and armor. If they're in the lord's province, its just assumed that they were his samurai. But if they were outside the province, for example accompanying the lord on a pilgrimage to a trip to meet with an ally, they would some of them (or ashiguru) would carry banners with the lord's kamon.

The same in battles. Some of them (especially ashigaru infantry and mounted couriers) would wear a sashimono with the lord's kamon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sashimono. That was for friend vs. foe identification. But that was prevalent later in the 15th-17th centuries. Battles involved tens of thousands of samurai and ashiguru on each side them. In the 12th century, battles were smaller and simpler. It was kind of like, if the other guy is facing your side or running from it, he's a foe.

(A side note-- In the big wars of the later years, daimyo would send retainers and order for troops and supplies they must bring to the martialing point. For example, Chiba no Masayori, owner of 85 koku is ordered to bring:
8 mounted samurai
25 yari ashigaru
10 dai-kyu ashigaru
5 teppoh (matchlock) ashigaru
2 pack horses
200 ft of rope
4 large bails of rice
10 lbs of tea
3 kegs of sake
It's unclear how exactly these little groups of soldiers were organized into into bigger units once they reached the martialing area. But big units were formed on the basis of the weapons. Units of cavalry, units of spear ashigaru, etc.)

[ffilz]

So my question arises from the camp is someone secretly gathering troops. Assuming one runs into said troops, the question is how easy is it to identify who they belong to.

BTW, I'm finding Valley of the Mists is very loosely organized and is missing information, so I'm stumbling trying to connect all the dots...

[jemmus]

I see. I don't think they'd have anything identifying their master on them. They'd probably only do that if they were on a procession through another province, or if they were ready to go into battle. But if any of the senior officers are from the lord's clan, they might have the family kamon on their helmets or on their sleeves.

I can imagine Valley of Mists being about as bewildering and spotty as the Bushido rule books. Honor Bound from 2016 is organized well and I'm learning about some rules things I need to study up on. But the encounters might need a pretty good overhaul to be balanced for a 1st level party. Some of the story content too. A little too D&D 5E-like, not enough OSR Bushido-like. (Not at all to diss 5E. I personally like it, it's got a lot of depth. I just tend to underestimate how powerful the PCs are).

(More tl;dr. In the Heian Period the bushi's arms weren't covered with armor, just his shoulders with the flexible flapping plates. So the pretty tight cotton sleeves of his shirt were visible. Sometimes the right forearm had some armor strips strapped onto the outside, but usually not the left arm. The inside of the left arm couldn't have anything for the bowstring to snag on as it moved along it).

[Marullus]

Thanks, Jemmus. Those answers helped and make sense!

From a gameplay perspective:

• If it isn't a significant plot issue, then just don't have insignia.
• If the leader recruiting the forces (the Pretender) is confident in his strength relative to the current Daimyo, let him show his sigil.
• If it is a a powerful Daimyo marshaling against a perceived weak Daimyo to expand territory, let him show his sigil AND let Samurai proudly show their own family sigils while serving him.
• Otherwise, I think it is safe to assume things are being done in secret (rather than being executed for treason) and sigils are being hidden and we have to engage in some kind of social RP to find out who these powers are.

In any event, I don't think any of us chose to be skilled in Heraldry, so we all have a BCS of 1.

The Ronin are here to earn glory and sign up (if the Pretender wins, he can restore them as Samurai after all). Taka is here to find the honorless cur who defamed and killed her brother (having followed him here, presuming he also is signed up). Whatever other hooks you have to make us care about the camp being up to you.

I am assuming that riding in with her clan insignia displayed openly (as a medium Samurai family of the current Daimyo) is a bold move.

[ffilz]

Thanks, I'll think some more about what's going on. In the meantime, you get some choice in how the encounter happens since you hear them (of course they may have heard you).

[jemmus]

Toshizo has followed Taka's lead and stopped on the road to wait for the bushi to approach.

[jmacatty]

I apologize, I've been out of town for the last week.

[ffilz]

OK, stalled again...

I think it may be time to accept the fact that while I am enjoying PLAYING in Asian themed games here (Starbeard's L5R and jemmus's Bushido) and being intrigued by trying to make a go of Bushido, I just don't find the setting riffing off my mindset well enough to keep this going. I also must say that I'm finding Valley of the Mists frustrating to run as a sandbox, it's just so incomplete in that sense, and as the PCs go haring off on the rumor least supported by the text... (not your fault, for your PCs and player interests, it seemed like the best bet).

I'm thinking of letting the combat finish in jemmus's game before formally pulling the plug, but just wanted to let folks know where my thinking is going.

Truth is over the past few weeks I've been examining my campaigns and considering what sings and what drudges. I've got my comfort zone, and Bushido isn't in it.

Sad thing is some of the stuff I would MOST like to run is a lost cause...

[jemmus]

The Honor Bound module is pretty well organized, but I just don't like the content that much. Kind of cheesy, IMO. But I did get a couple of good ideas from it that I'm keeping. It also has some good maps of the Kai area.

I know what you mean about sandboxing Bushido. My tabletop group never did play it back when I bought the 1st Edition books. We couldn't come up with any ideas for original sandbox campaign stuff. It's the opposite for me now. It's easier than dreaming up sandbox ideas for, say, D&D. The game world is already there because I'm such a samurai history nerd, I just have to plug things in. It's like if I had studied D&D's Forgotten Realms and its history and characters for the past few decades. There are a lot of stories already there to work with.

Anyway, understood Frank. If you decide to run another US game, I'd like to get in, whatever game system it is.

[ffilz]

The Honor Bound module is pretty well organized, but I just don't like the content that much. Kind of cheesy, IMO. But I did get a couple of good ideas from it that I'm keeping. It also has some good maps of the Kai area.

I know what you mean about sandboxing Bushido. My tabletop group never did play it back when I bought the 1st Edition books. We couldn't come up with any ideas for original sandbox campaign stuff. It's the opposite for me now. It's easier than dreaming up sandbox ideas for, say, D&D. The game world is already there because I'm such a samurai history nerd, I just have to plug things in. It's like if I had studied D&D's Forgotten Realms and its history and characters for the past few decades. There are a lot of stories already there to work with.

Anyway, understood Frank. If you decide to run another US game, I'd like to get in, whatever game system it is.

Yea, if this dies, I would still like to run something. Might go for something D&Dish as a light enough system to run well PbP but fits within my comfort zone.

Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy playing L5R and Bushido...

[Marullus]

Frank, if you want to take over the imperious shugenja, perhaps we could just swap? I immersed in Bushido the last few weeks and would be willing to see if I can pick up and finish this on your behalf if the other players are amenable. Player-posts are slow on the other game I am running and this one fills the time.

[ffilz]

Frank, if you want to take over the imperious shugenja, perhaps we could just swap? I immersed in Bushido the last few weeks and would be willing to see if I can pick up and finish this on your behalf if the other players are amenable. Player-posts are slow on the other game I am running and this one fills the time.

If the others are up for it, sure, we could swap.

Everyone, chime in. Do you want Marullus to take over the GM's chair? If so, I'd be happy to take over the Shugenja. Then I can get both sides of the magic equation

[Enoch]

I can certainly vouch for Marullus' skill as a GM and his nearly-superhuman ability/willingness to put time and effort into running one!

[ffilz]

I can certainly vouch for Marullus' skill as a GM and his nearly-superhuman ability/willingness to put time and effort into running one!

Yes, definitely, I played in the Rise of Smaug Burning Wheel campaign which was great except for never really getting off the ground, but that was due to player apathy not anything on the GM.

[jmacatty]

I'm game.

[jemmus]

Very cool, count me in of course.

Yes, Marullus is indeed an excellent GM. I'm in his really good Dust to Dust (Stars Without Number) game.

[ffilz]

Then it's decided. Admin request submitted.

[ffilz]

Then it's decided. Admin request submitted.

And it is done.

Thanks Marullus.

Frank