More Anything Goes

[Alethan]

Dave can Kaltar get his second level spell selection yet or is he still on first?

I don't think we get anything related to 2nd level until we pay the proper training costs and spend some time training, saalaria. Just more hit points for now.

[dmw71]

Dave can Kaltar get his second level spell selection yet or is he still on first?

I don't think we get anything related to 2nd level until we pay the proper training costs and spend some time training, saalaria. Just more hit points for now.

What Al said is correct.

Actually, I was just thinking about the need for training and whether or not I even want to enforce it. For instance, what training, exactly, does a cleric need to perform before being to cast an extra spell of the same level? And why would it cost money?

I actually just created a pool to collect the thoughts of the group.

[Stonjuz]

Not trying to blow my own horn but .... had to tell someone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwM0lE9lth0
The guitarist (on your left), Nigel, is the son of the guy who orignally sang that song.....JACKYL/Jesse Dupree
Guess which one is me?
"My back is tired and my legs both ache."
My throat still hurts, and that was last Thurday.

Oh yea, and the Mustang should be totally done this week.

[ravenn4544]

Nice!

... and gettin' old does kinda suck.... so enjoy the ride...

[Alethan]

...and Gwilt will get whatever he would get (my commute is almost over and I don't have time to look it up).

The only things Gwilt needs to adjust, aside from hit points, is:
1. Pick a Species Enemy prior to taking Level 2 (Species Enemy [1d10] = 9, which is Orc/Orog on Table 23: Forest Species Enemy, 2e Ranger Handbook)
2. THAC0 adjusted to 19
3. Bonus vs. humanoid/giant class is adjusted to +2
4. Tracking skill adjusted to base of 30%


I think that covers it.

[wolfpack]

I hate 2e rangers, 1e rangers are rambo, 2e are robin hood

[dmw71]

...and Gwilt will get whatever he would get (my commute is almost over and I don't have time to look it up).

The only things Gwilt needs to adjust, aside from hit points, is:
1. Pick a Species Enemy prior to taking Level 2 (Species Enemy [1d10] = 9, which is Orc/Orog on Table 23: Forest Species Enemy, 2e Ranger Handbook)
2. THAC0 adjusted to 19
3. Bonus vs. humanoid/giant class is adjusted to +2
4. Tracking skill adjusted to base of 30%


I think that covers it.

Thanks. Nothing in that list seems exceptional so consider it a free level.

[dmw71]

I hate 2e rangers, 1e rangers are rambo, 2e are robin hood

Maybe I don't know the 2E rules well enough, but I don't understand this. You should be able to create and play a character however you like regardless of rules.

I don't have the rules with me at work or on my phone, but what changed between the editions that is that is so different?

[Alethan]

I hate 2e rangers, 1e rangers are rambo, 2e are robin hood

Then I'd suggest never playing a 2e Ranger.

I hate 2e rangers, 1e rangers are rambo, 2e are robin hood

Maybe I don't know the 2E rules well enough, but I don't understand this. You should be able to create and play a character however you like regardless of rules.

I don't have the rules with me at work or on my phone, but what changed between the editions that is that is so different?

There isn't that huge of a difference. The 2e ranger gets a few more creatures in the giant-class, favored enemy To Hit bonus, two-weapon non-penalty, and slightly easier level progression (2K fewer XP needed) at higher levels.
They can't track as well at lower levels and have a negative reaction adjustment against their favored enemy.

Everything else appears to be the same (stat requirements, hit points, spell casting, weapon proficiency, etc.)

Any other difference has to do with the base 1e vs. 2e rules, not related to class.

[dmw71]

There isn't that huge of a difference. The 2e ranger gets a few more creatures in the giant-class, favored enemy To Hit bonus, two-weapon non-penalty, and slightly easier level progression (2K fewer XP needed) at higher levels.
They can't track as well at lower levels and have a negative reaction adjustment against their favored enemy.

Everything else appears to be the same (stat requirements, hit points, spell casting, weapon proficiency, etc.)

Any other difference has to do with the base 1e vs. 2e rules, not related to class.

Thanks for researching that for me.

I really haven't found too many radical differences between the two editions, and still believe that once you generate a character, you're free to play that character however you'd like.

[Alethan]

... you're free to play that character however you'd like.

Indeed!

[wolfpack]

1e ranger got +1 to damage per level versus giant class creatures (most humanoid races and giants), 2e ranger gets a +4 to hit against a single race.


2e ranger gets two weapon fighting and MS and HiS skills but can only do so when dressed in light armor (studded or leather).

In 1e rangers could use both MU and druid spells and high levels, in 2e they are restricted to priest spells.


a few other changes as well

[Alethan]

1e ranger got +1 to damage per level versus giant class creatures (most humanoid races and giants), 2e ranger gets a +4 to hit against a single race.


2e ranger gets two weapon fighting and MS and HiS skills but can only do so when dressed in light armor (studded or leather).

In 1e rangers could use both MU and druid spells and high levels, in 2e they are restricted to priest spells.


a few other changes as well

(FYI) The 2e ranger gets +1 damage/level for giant-class creatures, as well; that doesn't change between versions.

They do get a +4 To Hit against the preferred enemy, but they also receive a -4 reaction adjustment against them. The Move Silently and Hide In Shadows skills are pretty weak at lower levels (base 15% and 10% at first level, respectively) and there is a change to the tracking skill, as well. In 1e, the base for outdoor tracking is 90%, regardless of level, with modifiers for extreme conditions. In 2e, it is a proficiency that uses Wisdom as a base with all kinds of modifiers to make it harder or easier. In most cases, it is far from the 9 in 10 chance a 1e ranger has.

In my opinion, the removal of MU spells in the 2e version is a correction to something that shouldn't have been allowed in the 1e version. A ranger casing MU spells is going to need to maintain a lot of components and a spell book, neither of which travels very well in environments a ranger frequents (as I see it, anyway). It makes more sense for a ranger to develop some druid-like capabilities that would require verbal and somatic components more than anything else and build upon the idea of a ranger becoming so in-tune with his surroundings that he is able to manipulate them, to some degree.

But I guess I just don't get why the above adds up to one version coming off like Rambo and the other like Robin Hood. As Dave previously mentioned, the changes are pretty insignificant and, if anything, make the ranger slightly more potent in battle (increased To Hit, two-weapon fighting, preferred enemy bonus), not less.

[Alethan]

Raven, I only see one problem with your character sheet...

Ability Score Generation
All character ability scores will be generated using a slightly modified version of 'Method VI' presented in the 2E PHB:

Method VI
This method can be used if you want to create a specific type of character. It does not guarantee that you will get the character you want, but it will improve your chances.

Each ability starts with a score of 8. Then roll seven dice. These dice can be added to your character's abilities as you wish. All the points on a die must be added to the same ability score. For example, if a 6 is rolled on one die, all 6 points must be assigned to one ability. You can add as many dice as you want to an ability, but no ability score can exceed 18 points. If you cannot make an 18 by exact count on the dice, you cannot have an 18 score.

All players will use the method outlined above with the following exceptions:
- Each ability score will start with a score of 9, not an 8.
- Each ability score must be increased at least once.
- You will roll 10d4 instead of 7d6 to add to your character's abilities (Note: human characters will roll 11d4).

You didn't raise your INT or CHA up any.

[dmw71]

Raven, I only see one problem with your character sheet...

Good catch. I didn't notice this. Before moving on further, this will need to be corrected.

[wolfpack]

there is no mention of the +1 damage per level i the 2e book I have.

[dmw71]

(FYI) The 2e ranger gets +1 damage/level for giant-class creatures, as well; that doesn't change between versions.

there is no mention of the +1 damage per level i the 2e book I have.

Actually, I do not see this either.

It doesn't really matter for the purposes of this game, as I had initially started to document all the rules using 1E as the default edition, switching to 2E midstream, and this bonus is specifically stated as being used: Ranger:

Humanoid / “Giant Class” Opponents (1E UA, page 21)
Following is an expanded list of those humanoid creatures that are considered “giant class,” qualifying the ranger for a damage bonus (+1 point per level of the ranger) when such a creature is engaged in combat:

Code: Select all

Bugbear       Cyclopskin 
Dune Stalker  Ettin 
Flind         Giant 
Gibberling    Gnoll
Goblin        Grimlock 
Hobgoblin     Kobold 
Meazel        Norker 
Ogre          Ogre Mage
Ogrillon      Orc
Quaggoth      Tasloi
Troll         Xvart

[/i]

Still, it's kind of a silly rule to begin with and I don't see enough *significant* differences between the two editions to consider them polar opposites.

[Alethan]

there is no mention of the +1 damage per level i the 2e book I have.

Huh. I can't find it now, either. I could have sworn I came across that somewhere in the Ranger's handbook when I was reviewing it. I guess I was mixing it up with Dave's house rules. Sorry about that!

[tooleychris]

... and hits him again with a cackle and a prayer:

Cure Light Wounds [1d8] = 4

"Lights blessing! I'm ready for a nap!"

This made me giggle. A priest sneaking up on a sleeping orc and cackling evilly as He HEALS it!

[Nuke66]

Not to change the subject, but I wanted to post after the death of Garth.

I am not going to reroll, since I feel I am slowing you guys down. It is a great game, but missing a round because of slow posting cost us.

I will be lurking, good luck!