Discussion (out of character thread)

[Leitz]

Hey guys,

I understand the meta-game distinction between PCs and NPCs, and my character had already worked out the shares issue with his employer. I respect each person's character concept, and think Barnaby and Zenkris are interesting characters. However, I also want to respect my character concept, and the interactions so far say that he would not at all want to adventure with either Barnaby or Zenkris.

I've spent a couple hours bouncing this around in my head, and so far I see no solution that lets us maintain our character concepts. Sorry.

[tibbius]

I get this completely. I'm having the same issue with my guy - conceived of him as a remnant of a disgraced noble house, reduced to harp and song to make a living, bearing a sword for self-protection, too proud to seek employment otherwise. Ji-Ho would come across to him as condescending and not respectful of his lineage.

Maybe we should re-boot and have a "session zero" where we come up with characters who would be able to work together.

[Leitz]

Ah, the joys of miscommunication! First off, if anything I did came off as condescending, I deeply apologize. I don't like it when people do it to me, and not even my PCs intentionally do it to others.

If you like, let's look at this out of character. Ji-ho understands Barnaby's situation, that isn't an issue. Lots of nobles where he's from are in the same state, and he's here instead of there as his solution to the problem. Bringing another noble along isn't an issue. Barnaby would easily note that Magyar is not Ji-ho's native tongue, he has a heavy accent. He is also wearing his armor, and it is more decorated than normal for a soldier on the line. Not gaudy to the point of uselessness, but not something the average soldier would wear. There's also Ji-ho's bearing; as you noted with Barnaby, people confident of their status carry themselves a little differently. Barnaby and Ji-ho are alike in that.

Here's where I'm struggling. Ji-ho is a nobleman from an honorable military family. From what he has said, he has accepted a task that requires him to serve with honor, and he has people in a military retinue that he considers important. He 'works for' someone, and his military mindset is that everyone works for someone else in the chain of command. Further, since he has to protect everyone as much as possible, someone needs to be in charge. Because of his tasking, that's him. That means he brings his skills to the forefront when battle is offered, and he helps everyone else do their best when they have something to contribute.

Barnaby and Zenkris want to be considered equals, and if this were a social situation Ji-ho would happily treat them as such. Or even as his superiors! But his honor and his people are at stake, and someone wanting to be an equal needs to bring the same sense of teamwork and responsibility as Ji-ho himself follows.

[tibbius]

Ah, the joys of miscommunication! First off, if anything I did came off as condescending, I deeply apologize. I don't like it when people do it to me, and not even my PCs intentionally do it to others.

If you like, let's look at this out of character. Ji-ho understands Barnaby's situation, that isn't an issue. Lots of nobles where he's from are in the same state, and he's here instead of there as his solution to the problem. Bringing another noble along isn't an issue. Barnaby would easily note that Magyar is not Ji-ho's native tongue, he has a heavy accent. He is also wearing his armor, and it is more decorated than normal for a soldier on the line. Not gaudy to the point of uselessness, but not something the average soldier would wear. There's also Ji-ho's bearing; as you noted with Barnaby, people confident of their status carry themselves a little differently. Barnaby and Ji-ho are alike in that.

Here's where I'm struggling. Ji-ho is a nobleman from an honorable military family. From what he has said, he has accepted a task that requires him to serve with honor, and he has people in a military retinue that he considers important. He 'works for' someone, and his military mindset is that everyone works for someone else in the chain of command. Further, since he has to protect everyone as much as possible, someone needs to be in charge. Because of his tasking, that's him. That means he brings his skills to the forefront when battle is offered, and he helps everyone else do their best when they have something to contribute.

Barnaby and Zenkris want to be considered equals, and if this were a social situation Ji-ho would happily treat them as such. Or even as his superiors! But his honor and his people are at stake, and someone wanting to be an equal needs to bring the same sense of teamwork and responsibility as Ji-ho himself follows.

Ok, so let Ji-Ho express that more fully in the To Adventure! thread and maybe we can get things moving again.

[scarik]

If this was a Fate game now would be the time when I compel all of the PCs to work together or attack you with ninjas. Since it isn't I off that PCs aren't required to like each other and plenty of grand epics start with protagonists who don't.

I'm content to let you all figure it out OOC and find a way for the IC parts to work. I'm also happy to add an IC inciting incident to push three proud men towards a tolerable compromise that you can work on organically through shared peril.

Let me know what you all think. PM me if you prefer.

[Leitz]

So far I think Barnaby and Ji-ho can work together, if I can phrase things correctly. Since my last effort came off unintentionally condescending, I'm not confident in the odds. I'm not sure how Kalstone/Zenkris feel.

The main thing is getting them all talking enough to deal with two issues; Ji-ho feels bound to lead, since his name and honor is on the agreement, and he needs to feel confident that the others will bring good value to the arrangement. Since they don't really know each other well, and our first conversation didn't start off great, it's a muddle.

I've been reading and thinking on this, but that pesky work-thing is keeping me from a good reply right now.

[scarik]

The curse of text and its lack of tone.

For context Barnaby fights as well as a heavy infantryman though his real value is not obvious since Bards don't look like mages or clerics. A slight push for them to work it out is that Sir Kyl would recognize a Church-trained (clerics) Bard at once and know the difference between him and a College (mages) trained one.

Meanwhile Zenkris fights as two light infantry and everyone knows that all Elves are mages. Plus he has two magic dogs. As an Elf he can always be aloof and so not offended or he can go talk to the Dwarves himself.

If you need a mediator I will oblige. Otherwise I shall butt out.

[Leitz]

Barnaby and Zenkris bring good value to the adventure, it's just getting the IC sorts of conversation worked out.

[tibbius]

I'll offer that if Ji-Ho brought the same level of openness to the IC conversation as we're having out of character, things would fall together pretty well from Barnaby's side.

[Leitz]

I'll offer that if Ji-Ho brought the same level of openness to the IC conversation as we're having out of character, things would fall together pretty well from Barnaby's side.

Heh, Ji-ho's openness, and my abilty to game it, are two vastly different things.

[Leitz]

I'll offer that if Ji-Ho brought the same level of openness to the IC conversation as we're having out of character, things would fall together pretty well from Barnaby's side.

How does this look?

[tibbius]

Yeah, I think the appeal to common hard times and the head-of-house / duty to house thing would win over Barnaby. Just need to draft IC response.

[kalstone]

I'm sorry, but I just don't think it's going to work for me to have unequal roles within the party. I hate to bail on the game, but it's probably better I do so before we really get started. Good luck with the game! It sounds like it could be really interesting.

[tibbius]

I'm willing to play with two players. scarik? Leitz? What do you think.

[Leitz]

Well, if you two want to play on, that's an option. I apologize for playing a Lawful character.

[tibbius]

I'm fine playing with either of you Leitz or kalstone, but as kalstone has bowed out, the offer is open to you, Leitz.

[Leitz]

Storms here, thumb typing. I am happy to procede, sorry we lost kalstone.

If you want to play more than one character, go right ahead! Ji-ho has a lot of NPCs, and that will keep me busy.

[tibbius]

I hadn't gotten to Barnaby hiring followers. He has 9 shillings to throw around!

He tries to hire Rolton


and also a squinty, scowling mercenary named Dramm, whose dour demeanor amuses the generally cheerful nobleman.
.

[scarik]

I'm typically not able to check the forums before 2pm EST so if this happen in the morning it takes me a bit to catch up.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think it's going to work for me to have unequal roles within the party. I hate to bail on the game, but it's probably better I do so before we really get started. Good luck with the game! It sounds like it could be really interesting.

Alas, but I understand. If that's how you feel thanks for letting me know.

I'll move Zenkris to the inactive section. If you change your mind he can always reactivate.

I'm willing to play with two players. scarik? Leitz? What do you think.

More is better but 2 will do.

I hadn't gotten to Barnaby hiring followers. He has 9 shillings to throw around!

He tries to hire Rolton

Leitz beat you to that one I'm afraid. I haven't updated yet so that's my bad. However I'll count that roll for hiring mercs there are... Merc light infantry available [1d6]=6 of them looking for work.

The henchmen currently available are
Gar (conscript, Neutral): An ex convict on the chain gang. Hardly more than a common thug.
Toombs (light infantry, Chaotic): An above average ruffian come seeking fortune.

You can try to go talent hunting if you want and see if there is anyone else.

From ACKs:

PCs may sometimes find potential hirelings while on adventures. Otherwise, in order to find hirelings, the PCs must carouse in pubs, post notices of help wanted, hand out fliers, and seek out adventuring companies, mercenary brotherhoods, or professional guilds. These activities cost money. Each week that the adventurers are in the market for hirelings, they must pay the fee listed on the table below. This fee is per type of hireling.

Its 1d6p to find a random henchman candidate and this town can have up to 6 available. Most of them will be warriors of some sort.
Otherwise they have a chance to refresh each month.

[scarik]

I added stats for the dwarves as a post in the NPCs thread. They are all first level dwarves. They bring 7HD and 1SD to your group. They have no henchmen and can't hire any.