OOC I

[dmw71]

In case you may not have noticed, there's an armed boss in the room.


I still need actions from:

Junius
Tippin
Keebler
Omdog
Canun

[dmw71]

"Behold! The goblin crumpled before Hubbard's might!" rejoices Canun. "AdaRue, be a dear and keep cleaning up this mess while I rescue the others..."

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Zhym]

"Sure, might as well fire into melee," I think. "The odds of hitting Keelber are 1 in 40, and even then there's a 50% of not killing him outright."

Hah.

[dmw71]

"Sure, might as well fire into melee," I think. "The odds of hitting Keelber are 1 in 40, and even then there's a 50% of not killing him outright."

Hah.

Tippin defied long odds to accomplish that unfortunate feat.

I did take pause over the damage roll. If Tippin rolled to hit Keebler and did so non-critically, should I use the original damage the player rolled, or re-roll damage? I'm still not sure how I want to handle that one, but I'll make some sort of decision and clarify in the house rule. That could have potentially saved Keebler (use your damage roll instead of a new one), except for the fact that he rolled a 20! Either way, I would have needed to roll a new damage die so he was pretty much doomed.

Thoughts on the non-critical hit damage question?

[Zhym]

Well, if I had my choice, friendly fire would never score a critical hit. A 20 on the to-hit roll would just be a regular hit. As for damage, I'd say roll damage and then use the lesser of what you roll and what the player rolled. That way, friendly fire causes damage but has a lower chance of killing.

Then again, your rules for firing into melee are already pretty low risk. It's just weird that in this situation, a more BtB rule wouldn't have ended in Keebler's death.

[dmw71]

It's just weird that in this situation, a more BtB rule wouldn't have ended in Keebler's death.

Well, critical hits are not BtB... so, there's that.

I'm not opposed to saving Keebler by ruling that critical misses can't result in critical hits.... if you want to keep him around.

[Zhym]

I'd rather have him live than dead, sure.

[dmw71]

I'd rather have him live than dead, sure.

Cool. We'll make that happen.

The more I read the actual rules in LL (pg 54), the more I keep reading "the opponent" over and over, so it really doesn't seem like friendly fire was part of their intentions. That said, I still think there should be a chance of hitting a companion if you're firing into melee, so that will still stick.

As for damage, if a damage roll is provided by the player, that is the damage that will be used. In the event a player fails to provide a damage roll, I will make one for them.

Regarding critically hitting allies, why not? I mean, if there's a chance you can hit a friend, it reasons that there would be a chance that hit could potentially be critical. The odds are so stacked against it happening... but, as we've seen, it is possible. When it does happen, the same logic will apply: If the player provided a critical damage roll as well (I've started to build them into my macros), I will use it. If not, I will roll for it. In this case, since Keebler was hit -- critically -- the two damage results that we'd use would be the one you provided (-2) and the first damage die I rolled (-3)... so Keebler will be alive, but with 3 points of damage. Oh, Keebler only had 3 hit points. Well, he's alive, but unconscious.

The good news is, based on he rolls already provided, you guys kill Grosh this round... and there's a lock on the bosses room.... just saying.

[dmw71]

In this case, since Keebler was hit -- critically -- the two damage results that we'd use would be the one you provided (-2) and the first damage die I rolled (-3)... so Keebler will be alive, but with 3 points of damage. Oh, Keebler only had 3 hit points. Well, he's alive, but unconscious.

Oh,
I just looked at my house rule on this:

Death & Dying

Death & Dying (LL: 7)
If a PC is reduced to exactly 0 hit points, they are allowed a saving throw versus Death.

• Success: The character survives, but falls unconscious.
• Failure: The character succumbs to their injuries and dies.
  (Note: In the event of a PC death, that players is welcome to create a replacement character.)

Monsters and NPCs are automatically considered dead at 0 or fewer hit points.

So, I guess there's still a chance that Keebler may not make it.

[dmw71]

I'm still not sure how I want to handle that one, but I'll make some sort of decision and clarify in the house rule.

Updated: Natural 20's & 1's.

[Zhym]

My "why not?" argument would be that a critical hit on an opponent means the PC attacked perfectly. The PC is trying to hurt someone and did a great job of it by making a little extra effort, aiming better, or some other result of PC agency. When hitting an ally with friendly fire, the stray arrow just happened to hit something the PC didn't want it to hit. A critical hit in that situation is more consistent with a "dumb luck" theory of critical hits.

But mostly my reasoning for doing away with critical hits on friendly fire rolls (other than critical hits aren't BtB anyway) is that it creates a risk of a stray arrow being fatal, not just damaging. It will only happen once in 800 attacks, but that once will really ruin a PC's day.

Also, if you're going to use critical hits on melee fire rolls, you should change "beneficial" in the house rules to "higher." I'd argue that a 2 is much more beneficial than a 3 in this situation.

[Zhym]

Well, all that plus changing the rule might save Keebler's life.

[dmw71]

Also, if you're going to use critical hits on melee fire rolls, you should change "beneficial" in the house rules to "higher." I'd argue that a 2 is much more beneficial than a 3 in this situation.

Actually, while still preserving my house rule as written, I like that -- we'll stick with the more "beneficial" (e.g. lower) roll when dealing with PCs accidentally injuring another PC.

So, Keebler will only take 2 points of damage.

That said, I'd be lying if I wasn't curious about the outcome of your save versus 'death' (literally).

[dmw71]

I'm still not sure how I want to handle that one, but I'll make some sort of decision and clarify in the house rule.

Updated: Natural 20's & 1's.

Updated again: 'Natural 20's & 1's'.

[Zhym]

Also, if you're going to use critical hits on melee fire rolls, you should change "beneficial" in the house rules to "higher." I'd argue that a 2 is much more beneficial than a 3 in this situation.

Actually, while still preserving my house rule as written, I like that -- we'll stick with the more "beneficial" (e.g. lower) roll when dealing with PCs accidentally injuring another PC.

So, Keebler will only take 2 points of damage.

Lawyered! Statutory interpretation FTW!

That said, I'd be lying if I wasn't curious about the outcome of your save versus 'death' (literally).

Me too. Should I make a "what if?" roll?

[Zhym]

BTW, I don't want to disturb a favorable ruling, but one consequence of your rule for critical hits on firing into melee is that a catastrophic miss by a fighter is much worse than a bad miss by a non-fighter. If Tippin fires into melee, the worst that happens is someone takes 6 points of damage and there's a 75% chance that the victim takes 3 or less. If a fighter fires into melee with a shortbow and hits someone with a critical hit, max damage is 12, there's only an 8% chance that the damage is 3 or less and a 58% that the damage will be at least 6. It seems odd that an accidental hit by a fighter would be so much worse than an accidental hit by a non-fighter.

[dmw71]

Lawyered! Statutory interpretation FTW!

Yes, Tom and Omdog have fallen, and a lot of you have taken damage, but I am trying to run a more player-friendly game. I have no problem applying "beneficial" both ways, to the players benefit in each situation.

That said, I'd be lying if I wasn't curious about the outcome of your save versus 'death' (literally).

Me too. Should I make a "what if?" roll?

If you don't think it will diminish the effect of the "first" real situation that dictates the roll... go for it.

[dmw71]

BTW, I don't want to disturb a favorable ruling

Lol

...but one consequence of your rule for critical hits on firing into melee is that a catastrophic miss by a fighter is much worse than a bad miss by a non-fighter. If Tippin fires into melee, the worst that happens is someone takes 6 points of damage and there's a 75% chance that the victim takes 3 or less. If a fighter fires into melee with a shortbow and hits someone with a critical hit, max damage is 12, there's only an 8% chance that the damage is 3 or less and a 58% that the damage will be at least 6.

Hmmm... no, I'll have to rethink that as well.

Actually, for fighters, maybe they would use the less "beneficial" roll?

[dmw71]

I'm still not sure how I want to handle that one, but I'll make some sort of decision and clarify in the house rule.

Updated: Natural 20's & 1's.

Updated again: 'Natural 20's & 1's'.

And again: Natural 20's & 1's.

[dmw71]

Just an update to call out the new game placement. The game was accidentally archived, and found itself on the bottom of the list once restored. (Which, honestly, was my preference -- it makes it easier to find.)