OOC

[shaidar]

So, so looking through the combat pages, if I wanted to engage the orc to my SE, in this instance is there any difference between moving one square and attacking, charging and attacking, or waiting for him to come to me an then attack him?

[Rex]

I just noticed I only posted the first page of Action options. Sorry about that.

Combat 7.PNG (378.55 KiB) Viewed 315 times

Combat 8.PNG (257.98 KiB) Viewed 315 times

[Rex]

So, so looking through the combat pages, if I wanted to engage the orc to my SE, in this instance is there any difference between moving one square and attacking, charging and attacking, or waiting for him to come to me an then attack him?

Yes. In HM the individual with the higher Initiative (the measure of your combat experience, discipline, and morale) has an advantage and the defender has an advantage. You are considered Engaged when you are in adjacent hexes unless one or both of you are using a Long weapon (certain polearms) which no one involved has so we can ignore for now. When Engagement is initiated both of you will roll vs Initiative, if the Defender is higher success level they get a immediate Tactical Advantage. Basically a free action before the attacker can complete their action. This could be an attack with a melee weapon or to disengage or anything else. Depending on the Tactical Advantage outcome determines if the Attacker can complete is attack or not (if they disengaged the attacker will effectively loose his attack). A tie or Attacker wins the Initiative check then nothing happens and the Attacker makes is attack. this gives the Defender a chance of gaining an extra attack as someone first engages them.

Since you (as in all of you) are outnumbered and have higher Initiatives (theirs is 50-5=45 Phy Pen) it will improve your survival odds if you let them engage you. Then you have a chance of picking up a Tactical Advantage to get a free action. This could be an extra attack or to disengage and maneuver. You can start to see why a higher Initiative and Move can be advantageous here. Arngeir's chance of gaining a Tactical Advantage is about 50% (he gets a success of some sort and they get a failure of some sort). Which is decent but not guaranteed.

But with 2 orcs coming in on him any advantage is an advantage. But you don't want to waste your action so, in my opinion you have 2 options open to you if you want to let them engage you and you don't want to Pass and waste a round with no offensive action.
-----1. Throw your shorkana (throwing axe) as a missile attack and then if you gain a Tactical Advantage use it to Grope and draw your hand axe. If you don't gain a Tactical Advantage against any of them you can still defend with your shield ans Grope with your action next round.
-----2. Cast an Invocation (just make sure it has a Time of 15-SI or it takes 2 rounds) and fight with your shorkana once Engaged.

I would do the classic Viking move and throw the throwing axe, it is exactly why throwing axes and javelins were historically so popular.

I will do a break down for Algrim. sastaz is familiar with HM combat so will not do one unless he requests it.

[Rex]

For Algrim, much of what I posted for Arngeir applies here. The biggest difference is you are holding a crossbow and you need to get rid of it and get your shield and axe in hand. Dropping your crossbow does not require an action but arming your shield and axe does.

Options are.
----1. You can throw your crossbow at an orc using a missile attack. Not a great missile weapon and risks damaging the crossbow, but is an option. Then use any gained Tactical Advantage to Grope and arm yourself with shield and axe (you can do both at the same time).
----2. You can drop your crossbow and Grope to arm your shield and axe. Then you can defend with your shield against their attacks and use your axe on any Tactical Advantages you gain.

I strongly suggest #2, drop the crossbow and Grope your shield and axe.

[shaidar]

Thanks for the great explanation Rex. I agree on the classic move with the Shorkana.

I'll post shortly.

[Rex]

Note on Grope actions. If unengaged and not seriously injured Gropes are automatically successful. Once engaged you will need a Dex (in most cases sometimes Str) check. Dex checks are 3d6 rolls vs your Dex-Physical Penalty. A tie or lower than your modified Dex score is successful.

[sastaz]

Just to clarify (your interpretation of the rules). If three garguns engage Arngeir same round, he "wins" initiative and get a DTA on all three, could he disengage "for free" three times? Unlikely, but did come up during my previous campaigns.

[shaidar]

So, I'm confused a bit.

So my initiative is taken against each one for a potential separate TA on each, or just overall? If separate do I only need one for a grope action?

[Rex]

This is the optional rule from Combat 7 that I am using.

Engage Initiative..PNG (65.26 KiB) Viewed 304 times

How I play/interpret it is if Arngeir Engages an orc they will roll Initiative per the rule. If an orc Engages him, they will roll as well. Who can potentially benefit is different depending on who engaged. This means that orc 1 engaging would be an Initiative contest with a possible tactical advantage and orc 2 engaging would be another Initiative contest with possible Tactical Advantage. Since here are no ties for determining Initiative order, they are broken by SB then random roll until an order is established, so each would occur either on Arngeir's turn or an orcs. Nowhere does the rule mention it doesn't apply multiple times in a round. That is how we have always played it anyways. We have tried combat with the optional rule of not allowing multiple Tactical Advantages in a round (max 1 per individual) but decided we didn't care for it. TA's are fun and can reward intelligent play (or at least gives a chance of reward). Some rounds will have none (the last one for example) and others will have a bunch and be a whirlwind of actions, making combat seem chaotic and unpredictable as it should be.

Good question, in all rule sets rule interpretations vary by DM/table so it is good to check and I am always willing to discuss different ways to apply rules if anyone has another idea on it.

[Rex]

So, I'm confused a bit.

So my initiative is taken against each one for a potential separate TA on each, or just overall? If separate do I only need one for a grope action?

You will test Initiative each time you are engaged. So multiple rolls per round could be required and multiple Tactical Advantages could be gained.

As far as your Grope action, you don't need a roll of any sort this round if you are throwing your shorkana as the Missile Attack allows a Throw and Draw as part of the action, no roll required. So you will be Throwing the shorkana and drawing your hand axe as your action. Listed under Combat 8, Missile Attack [4].

[shaidar]

Thanks. I'm almost getting it, I'm sure it will crystallise as we go along.

[Rex]

It is a complicated combat system so I expect it will take everyone some time to get it. Once you start to see how it works then it isn't so bad but it does take working through combat a few times to get it. When we started out we did a lot of gladiatorial style combats of all sorts which really helped.

[sastaz]

I think the easiest way to look at it is that each combatant has an action per turn, and in the case of an attack, the defender gets to choose a reaction to respond. That's the basic. So if you are defending against multiple opponents, you still have one action, but you get to pick reaction on each attack directed against you.

Then there are these "bonus turns" called Tactical Advantages, that can happen for different reasons (often they give veterans an edge). Think of these as actions that are essentially the same thing again but they break the flow and play out directly, pausing the normal flow.

I think DnD had something like that with their "attack of opportunity"? It pauses everything else, and afterwards normal flow resumes. Like an "instant" in Magic the Gathering

[Rex]

Good summary sastaz. If anyone wants to do something and they don't see an option to do it just mention it and I will figure it out. I am a firm believer in a player should be able to try and do whatever they want. No guarantee it will succeed of course but try is always an option.

Nice rolls so far, should be an interesting round.

[Rex]

I am going to post the results of Turnip's action since it may influence Arngeir's action.

Note also the smoke bomb will obscure Arngeir, Algrim and anyone engaged with them next round for a special penalty of -10 special penalty to any combat rolls for everyone inside the smoke. Anyone targeting someone inside the smoke cloud from outside it will suffer a -20 special penalty.

[Rex]

I will do Arngeir as well since he is next and Turnip's shot was blocked. He is targeting the same orc and has a better roll so we will see.

[shaidar]

Cool. Quick question, in case I misunderstood. Did you say that we would automatically be aiming high with the orcs because of their size? If so, is that not a neck wound. Not trying to catch you out, just trying to follow the logic.

[Rex]

I did say that and then I forgot about it. Good spot. I am blaming sastaz for applying a aim high penalty in her post. I will edit my post. Don't be afraid to question stuff, I am notorious for missing details sometimes.

[Rex]

Round 1, a sling stone misses Turnip
Round 2, Algrim kills an orc with his crossbow
Round 3, only 2 actions so far and Arngeir kills an orc with his shorkana

[shaidar]

I just hope we're not using up our luck.