The Unseen Servant forums

Ranges

I'm still trying to get a handle on how to show you folks the ranges. Do I need to put some sort of chart in the post with range bands showing who is where? There is movement, so having a single near and far doesn't really work, but I could do it sort of like Traveller did, back in the day. Something like this:
Beginning of Round 2

• Everyone can move one range band forward or back in a round, two if that is all you do.
• If you're in the same range band you can do melee, ranged, spell.
• If you are one range band away you can do ranged and spell.
• If you are more than one range band away you can't attack (except for some spells).

Would that help everyone? We could even say something things like, "Sam moves from -1 to 0 and attacks with his dagger." The Crick runs from 2 to 0, but can't do anything else." That would give us all (me especially) a good idea of who is where when it comes to actions. I could set this up as a table, I think, and drop it into all the Rounds posts.

That would work for me.

We could give it a try.

Ranges: Close, Near, and Far and important to Shadowdark (melee, spears/thrown, ranged accordingly) Movement is also simplified, that you can change categories as one round of move. Adding more categories than that also changes the way movement works, and would require aligning for spell/bow range and such. I like the chart, but perhaps replace the numbers with the Shadowdark increments?

(Out)
Far
Near
Close
Near
Far
(Out)

For initiative: "GM decides" is perfectly fine. It creates pressure on you, though - the order you decide could kill or save a PC, etc. As a GM, I find that hard because I will inevitably save the PC and having it be rolled allows a neutral arbiter. The other risk is that people post "yes, and" based on what's already said before them. This creates an inherent "first to post wins initiative" effect which has been challenging/undesired in other campaigns, where those with more limited posting times feeling disenfranchised. None of these are insurmountable, but they're worth considering since you asked the question.

I am fine with the DM choosing initiative. Be it randomly or die roll or some other system (weapon length, Dex etc.). That said, I agree with Marullus about posting, Initiative shouldn't be about who posted first. In just about every game I am in the roll people most often forget to post is initiative which is why I think it is best for the DM to handle it as it prevents that.

There are two different points being made here: Movement/Ranges and Initiative/Turn Order. I want to take them in turn. This is the longest/hardest to explain so this is the first post.

Movement/Ranges

I agree that the zones and how movement works is one of the pillars of Shadowdark. Basically, there are 4 zones - listed as you put them as: Out, Far, Near and Close. [Although Close really really constricted!] You can visualize them as circles with Close being the center or as linear range bands, as I did, but either way there are these four. I abstracted the words into numbers for a reason which I'll come to in a minute, but, for the moment consider relativity. What is Near or Far for one PC is not Near or Far for another PC, especially when they move between zones.

Ranges in SD are deliberately vague. The 5, 30, 60...feet are rules of thumb not hard and fast numbers. I think having actual number of feet as examples is useful, but is also misleading. What SD says about movement is that a PC can move Near in a round, but what does it mean to move Near?" I don't think the spirit of SD is to interpret Near as 30 feet, but rather a zone, so I interpret this to mean from one "zone" to a neighboring "zone" in a round, ie. from Near to Close, from Far to Near, from Out to Far, etc. Visualized on the circle (or range bands) it is literally one area to its neighboring area. Right?

Now, another point about movement, the rules also state that a PC can move "Near" and then "Near" again if that is their only action in a round. Given my interpretation, that must mean a PC could move from Out to Far and then to Near, or from Far to Near and then to Close in one Round, but that would be their complete turn.

My final point on Ranges deals with relativity. Picture each individual PC, NPC, and Monster has a circle around them (close, near, far, out). As each individual moves their circle moves with them. As the circle intersects with the other individual circles we have Venn diagrams where we can determine the relative distance between each individual on the battlefield, distances expressed as Close, Near, Far, or Out. A computer could handle this easily, I can't always in my head. I can represent it on paper or in a post or in a post for clarity, but very abstractly. Consider my table for a minute: 3 = Out, 2 = Far, 1 = Near, 0 = Close. Then on the other side of the circle: 0 = Close, -1 = Near, -2 = Far, -3 = Out. I didn't use the words because of relativity. Looking at the table I posted for Round 3 Begins note that Gb, Gb,
G1, G2, G3, F, U, N, and Bw are all in Zone 2, they are all are in Close (should be Near actually) Range with each other performing melee combat. Willow and Wendel are in -2, which is two zones from where the scrum is taking place...that is Far from that combat for them, so can only do ranged attacks. If Willow moves forward into the same zone as a Goblin she would be moving Near to it. That's how I'm visualizing things.

Now, there IS A PROBLEM with my table and that is Close (or 0)...technically it shouldn't exist. Reasonably, we should have just Out, Far, Near, Far, Out. Everyone in Near can fight melee with everyone in Near. Far can range attack to Near or to Far. It could look like this:
It still doesn't deal with two Individuals both being in FAR and wanting to hit each other with swords, though. Say Fergus runs past the Goblins and into a zone beyond them...he is now Near to Goblins in that zone, but Far from those he left behind, yes? I hop you can see the problem?

What I think I'll do is keep my linear table privately to help me visualize positioning (same zone = Near, next zone = Far). I think I will I post the Simplified UDT for you?

Initiative/Turn Order

Referencing INITIATIVE in the Quickstart Player's Guide there are two Initiative Orders: (p45) one established at the beginning of the game (or I suppose when others join the party) and it remains the same for the rest of the game; and second (p50) a different Combat Initiative established when combat begins. I assume the original Initiative resumes after combat.

Also, note Freeform Mode (p45) that is what I am using rather than a strict round robin. Frankly, I'm for applying that to Combat Initiative, as well, so we can keep things moving during combat. Yes, I want everyone to get their chance to post and to shine, but I won't wait forever for a player to post...that kills games quicker than anything, as some of you know. I am keeping track of a turn order behind the scenes and have already voided (ignored) actions that jumped ahead of the rest of the party and will continue to do so.

However if you all want a public fixed order, for example:
where there must be a post from Marullus for Willow before shaidar posts for Fergus, and then we go down the list post for post we can try that, but there must be a time constraint on posts if we do or the game will bog down to a slow, slow, slow crawl.

At a table this doesn't have to cause a big problem, but in PBP it is a game killer! If we wait a day for each PC, for example, we'd be at best doing a Round a Week and that's too damn slow!

We all have RL that gets in the way of posts, from time to time, and the longer between posts the more likely a player drops out and stops posting. There must be an agreement on what happens if a fictional player playing a PC somewhere in the order doesn't post in a timely way, or simple stops posting at all. Is that PC skipped or does the Ref play them for that turn?

How many days (hours?) do we wait for each player to post?

My vote is when combat starts we do this:

1. Give the group 1 day for each player to post an Initiative Roll for their PC(s), if one isn't posted I'll do it and set the order from that.
    
2. Give the entire group 2 days (including the Initiative Day) to make their official game posts. During those 2 days you can role play with each other planning what you want to do before making your official post for your PC, but there must be an official post before the third day. Those that don't make an official post will be NPCs that round and basically just defend themselves.
    
3. If all official posts come in before the end of the 2nd day, I'll go to the next step early.
    
4. On day 3 (or sooner see previous point), the Ref (me) will take all the official posts that have come in and put them into the turn order, figure out results, and post them and the situation starting the next round and another 2 day time limit. Note: there could be a delay for me getting the next round up...just like you RL intrudes from time to time.

That would get us to 2 to 3 rounds a week (depending on how fast everyone gets their posts in) and that's the best I think we can do.

That should work fine. I try to post my action independent of what others will do but when I cant I will make an if then post.

If willow retreats I will take her spot to hold the line if not I will toss a flask of oil over the line.

Something like that anyway.

That was fun! I thought so anyway.

Yes, it was a cakewalk for you guys. So, was it luck and good rolls or were the Goblins just too easy?

1st level characters a really squishy and that was actually a lot of goblins (about 2-to-1). We are on par with, or not much better than, goblins at this level.

Rolls/luck were in our favor (I mean, 3 of 4 rolls for me were 19+!)

I think a combination of both. There were some great rolls mixed in, but also not very strong opponents.

I had some good luck with rolls, particularly magic missile damage. Making MM roll with advantage really does up the usefulness of MM for low lewel wizards, but I can see why they capped the damage at d4.

shaidar wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:15 am I had some good luck with rolls, particularly magic missile damage. Making MM roll with advantage really does up the usefulness of MM for low lewel wizards, but I can see why they capped the damage at d4.

The Goblins all had 4 HP and it seemed like every time on was hit it was for 4 or more points, and I rolled very poorly especially on init for the goblins during the fight. I think I only had one attack actually hit anyone and most never got a chance to try as they were down before their turn came up.

I've got Fergus down as being hit twice, but only for 1 point, then 2 points of damage.

I don't expect this luck to last, Rex and I have notoriously bad luck with the dice roller.

shaidar wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:53 pm I've got Fergus down as being hit twice, but only for 1 point, then 2 points of damage.

I don't expect this luck to last, Rex and I have notoriously bad luck with the dice roller.

Looking back, you're right. So, you need 3 points of healing.

My luck is famously bad in fact. Ufgar has been rolling pretty good for me in fact.

There are more ways to get healing, but here are several. I added Bind Wounds, based on the Chirurgeon Background.

Injured characters can rest to recover from their wounds. To rest, a character must consume a ration and sleep for 8 hours.

Potion of Healing. Healing by Level: 0-3 1d6; 4-6 2d8; 7-9 3d10; 10+ 4d12.

Cure Wounds (WIS Spell). DC 11. Near. Heal 1d6+ 1/2 Priest Level.

Healing Touch (WIS Spell). DC 11. Close/Touch. Heal one creature within close for 1d4 HP.

Heal (WIS Spell). DC 15. Near. Heal completely by touch.

Herbalism (Background). Salve DC 11 1hp. Curative DC 15 like Potion of Healing.

Chirurgeon (Background). First Aid: Advantage to stabilize dying DC 15; Bind Wounds (only on conscious PC) DC 12, heal 1 hp + 1 hp for every 2 points the roll >=12.

Welcome Enoch!

shaidar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:51 pm Welcome Enoch!

Welcome, indeed!

FYI, my posting might be spotty for the next day or two due to RL intrusion. (or not if things go better than I expect)

Welcome Enoch!