[OOC] Tavern Talk

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Marullus
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#21 Post by Marullus »

Oh, that helps a lot!

I think I've got this figured out, then. (Partly because I need to read the magic-user instructions and not just the Illusionist ones.) Cracking off 30 years of dust and age...

First, the number of cantrips known in the spell book.
As quoted above, it's assumed most wizards set their cantrips aside and adventure with only powerful spells in their travelling spellbook, which is their justification for putting this in the unearthed arcana expansion. (That's not what you or I are looking to do, because they're fun and flavorful.) It says: "This assumes that the magic-user has, in fact, retained his or her book of cantrips - a tome as large as a good-sized book of higher-level spells." So, you still know all the cantrips you learned as an apprentice as long as you're willing to carry them in a spellbook. (It looks like we're doing a fast and fun game here, so encumbrance and spell-book-capacity are not factors Leitz is asking for.)

Magic User:
The number and types of cantrips known and recorded is determined by random use of the tables on page 30 of this volume. The exception
is the table of useful cantrips — those which are employed to make apprenticeship less wearisome. An apprentice has one useful cantrip for
each point of intelligence, and is allowed free choice from the list of 20 offered. For the other five categories of magic-user cantrips, the number
which may be known (selected at random) is as follows: reversed, 2-8; legerdemain, 2-5; person-affecting, 2-8; personal, 2-8; and haunting sound,
2-5.
Illusionist:
Illusionists have available to them all of the cantrips that can be learned and employed by regular magic-users, although an illusionist’s
capacityfor such minor magics is different in each category from that of a regular magic-user (see the list that follows). In addition, illusionists can learn and employ from 5-8 minor illusion cantrips, none of which are available to regular magic-users. Except where otherwise indicated, all properties pertaining to magic-user cantrips likewise apply to those employed by the illusionist class. The number of magic-user cantrips available to illusionists in each category is as follows: Useful cantrips: One per point of intelligence, up to intelligence minus 3; i.e., an illusionist with 18 intelligence can choose 15 useful cantrips from the magic-user list. Reversed: 2-5 Personal: 2-5 Legerdemain: 3-6 Haunting-sound: 5-8 Person-affecting: 2-5
By the book, we randomize a BUNCH of cantrips and keep them in our list. :)
[1d4+4] = 3+4 = 7 Illusion [1d4+1] = 4+1 = 5 Reversed [1d4+2] = 4+2 = 6 Ledgermain
[1d4+1] = 3+1 = 4 Person-affecting [1d4+1] = 4+1 = 5 Personal [1d4+4] = 4+4 = 8 Haunted sound, plus 14 Useful cantrips.

I'll happily go build that list. Looks like fun. :)

Second, casting the cantrips.
However, a magic-user may opt to retain up to four cantrips in place of one 1st-level spell.
I don't know why my brain frizzled on that before. It is obviously as you stated - you sacrifice a 1st level spell and can memorize four cantrips instead.

Leitz' house rule that we don't have to memorize and can, in fact, cast on the fly is already a boon to us in this. It allows us a lot more variety in our activities, even given that we each only have 2 spells/day in the first place. I remember now why I loved cantrips in 1e. :)

As an illusionist, the cantrips are almost as effectual as the full illusion spells (the latter being needed mostly to cast at longer range or for extended time), so being able to cast x4 instead of x1 makes it far less debilitating as a low-level magic user.

So... I'm now pretty confident that's how it would work as-written. Magic-users are near-useless at low levels (which is probably why you and I both multi-classed for this quick campaign already). I always allowed house rules so that wizards could pick up extra spells-per-day for INT like Clerics do. If Leitz wants to consider making casters more useful party members he could either offer INT bonus spells, or allow X number of cantrips per day without consuming our only two actual spell slots, or allow unlimited cantrips with 1 per round (like 5e).
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#22 Post by The Bindoner »

I had intended to multi-class as a mage-thief, but decided not to complicate things. The simple life for a change :D

I remember the cantrips being such a boon, having something to do beyond deciding when to cast the two or three spells per day...

Our group got around the memorised spell limit by preparing scrolls, and the DM providing scrolls in treasure. A bit Monty Haul I suppose, but it stopped the mage players getting bored.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#23 Post by dmw71 »

Leitz wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:33 pm Okay, user dmw71 posted early but has gotten swamped.
Part of my delay stems from the fact that I wasn't really feeling the character I was trying to build. I thought up a new character concept while running an errand over lunch, so I will be swapping characters.

I will have him created (and post my first update) later today.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#24 Post by Leitz »

Cool! We may have a brand new to the board person, Aimee, join us. So I won't do the next action post until 1700 (GMT -5) Thursday. That should give everyone a chance to post, and edit as necessary.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#25 Post by GreyWolfVT »

Well then welcome aboard Aimee! :)
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#26 Post by DexterWard »

Welcome to the party Aimee :)
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#27 Post by The Bindoner »

Welcome in Aimee.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#28 Post by Leitz »

Just for note, standard 1e Initiative is 1d6 for the party and 1d6 for the monsters. With PbP, I'm happy to let each character roll their own initiative. The monsters that are the same will roll as a group. In this case, there are two different groups; the kobolds and the snake.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#29 Post by GreyWolfVT »

hmm ok too many years of 2e apparently I thought 1e was 1d10 for init. I'll correct my macros again.
“All men did have darkness. Some wore it in the form of horns. Some bore it invisibly as rot in their souls.”
― Paul S. Kemp, Shadowbred
"If good people won’t do the hard things, evil people will always win, because evil people will do anything."
― Paul S. Kemp, Twilight Falling

Algrim Tirion Dwarf - HarnMaser
Dalin Silverhand Dwarf Thief - Barrowmaze
Elwood 'Dug' The Bounty Hunter Dwarf Swashbuckler - Hedge's Adventures in the World of Golarion
Roan Gravelbeard Dwarf Fighter - Hedge's Greyhawk Adventures
Torvik Shadowhood Dwarf Fighter/Thief - Nocturne
DM - GreyWolf's Mystara Adventures - AD&D 2e
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#30 Post by Leitz »

1d10 is a common house rule, due to 10 segments in a round. No worries.

On a different note, keep in mind that Parnell gets two bonuses for poison saves. Not just the +1 for 19 Con, but the +5 for being a dwarf with a high Con. (PHB, p 15).

On a different, different note:

Out of Character and Out of Class Conversations

It is generally good gaming form to restrict how much planning a group can do while in combat. This group, however, has worked together for an extended period of time. So you are free to discuss normal stuff that your characters would know about each other. For example, if Tinwendil usually holds a flank and uses his bow, he can let the other players know that, and their characters can act with that in mind.

Further, while each character has their own class skills and knowledge, everyone has seem the clerics cast spell and the thieves pick locks and check for traps. Your characters are free to make reasonable recommendations to the other players/characters.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#31 Post by Marullus »

Leitz,

Any thoughts on what you want to allow for our cantrips?
I always allowed house rules so that wizards could pick up extra spells-per-day for INT like Clerics do. If Leitz wants to consider making casters more useful party members he could either offer INT bonus spells, or allow X number of cantrips per day without consuming our only two actual spell slots, or allow unlimited cantrips with 1 per round (like 5e).
I want to get a feel for how free we should color our actions with magical stuff.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#32 Post by Leitz »

Marullus wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:27 am Leitz,

Any thoughts on what you want to allow for our cantrips?
I always allowed house rules so that wizards could pick up extra spells-per-day for INT like Clerics do. If Leitz wants to consider making casters more useful party members he could either offer INT bonus spells, or allow X number of cantrips per day without consuming our only two actual spell slots, or allow unlimited cantrips with 1 per round (like 5e).
I want to get a feel for how free we should color our actions with magical stuff.
Let's experiment, and see if it's fun. Here are the draft rules:

1. Wizards of all types get extra spells per day if they have a high intelligence. Use the Wisdom table (PHB p 11).

2. Wizards can cast four cantrips per day in lieu of one spell level. That means four cantrips in place of one first level spell, or eight cantrips in place of a second level spell.

Thoughts?
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#33 Post by cybersavant »

that's a real bonus Kurzuk, so I like
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#34 Post by Marullus »

Sounds great!
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#35 Post by Leitz »

Encumbrance, Missile Weapon Usage: Unless you're getting silly with what's on your character sheet, or the battle lasts for hours, don't worry about it.
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#36 Post by The Bindoner »

Which reminds me, I need to finish filling out the equipment section...
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#37 Post by The Bindoner »

I can't find the rule on silver weapons. What multiplier applies to rice? Judging from silver arrows x12, but I seem to recall it was more like x20...
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#38 Post by Leitz »

The Bindoner wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:20 pm I can't find the rule on silver weapons. What multiplier applies to rice? Judging from silver arrows x12, but I seem to recall it was more like x20...
Not sure. Well, it's in there somewhere, but you won't have a need for it. How's that?
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#39 Post by The Bindoner »

:roll: Spoilers! :lol:
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Re: [OOC] Tavern Talk

#40 Post by Marullus »

Question: How do weapon proficiencies work when multi-classing in 1e? I'm not seeing it.

A Wizard gets 1 weapon proficient at 1st level.
A Thief gets 2 weapons proficient.
They have to hit 6th and 5th level in each class respectively to get more (so not a factor here), but implying both work.

Do I have 2 proficiencies (better of the two classes) or do I have three (applying both classes)?
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