OOC V

[sulldawga]

We should never accept the surrender of any non-humans (e.g. orcs, goblins, kobolds, etc). They are the sworn enemies of mankind, elves and dwarves. They are literally a threat to civilization as we know it.

We should never accept the surrender of any evil humans or demi-humans. Any potential benefit is outweighed by the downside (e.g. they lie to us, we free them to continue doing evil deeds, they can get some friends and come back to kill us).

That's what Marodin would do.

[thirdkingdom]

I'm cool with whatever as long as it does not involve torture, whether described or implied. As to alignment guidelines, I tend to take a Moorcockian interpretation; player characters tend to be neutral as Lawful and Chaotic are almost cosmic forces. I haven't seen -- with the exception of Saul -- actions drastically outside of alignment.

Thordin will also know that although duergar are evil and the enemy of "surface" dwarves they are "lawful" and orderly. If that makes a difference.

[zebediah]

Good point TK, if we know (or have strong reasons to believe) that an enemy is Lawful then we can think of accepting surrender under certain conditions, otherwise I agree with sulldawga.

If it came only to his own choices and convenience Drudsa would be very flexible withhow he would deal with enemies, but as a group we need some sort of compromise as there is no point in having this discussion everytime a situation like this arises. With this in mind I am fine with a "take no prisoners" approach unless we have reason to believe the enemies might have critical information.

[frobozz]

Good point TK, if we know (or have strong reasons to believe) that an enemy is Lawful then we can think of accepting surrender under certain conditions, otherwise I agree with sulldawga.

If it came only to his own choices and convenience Drudsa would be very flexible withhow he would deal with enemies, but as a group we need some sort of compromise as there is no point in having this discussion everytime a situation like this arises. With this in mind I am fine with a "take no prisoners" approach unless we have reason to believe the enemies might have critical information.

I do agree with all of this. Of course, what comprises "critical information" may vary from PC to PC. For example, the information that the hobgoblin might have was important enough (at least to Lanny) to justify taking him prisoner back to Threshold (not to be prosecuted by some imaginary court for being a hobgoblin, but to enable us to get this critical information to the church/state authorities (as represented by Father Varis), since clues we discovered pointed to his possible connection to Bargle and Elwyn as well as to military preparations for a possible raid on Threshold). The information that the PCs might get from the duergar, on the other hand, whom Lanny considers to be randomly encountered explorers, would certainly be helpful to the PCs, and would enable them to know the true limits of the tunnels beneath the castle, but it is not necessarily "critical" in the same way. By the way, there have also been plenty of situations where Lanny specifically did NOT want to take prisoners, or wake up and interrogate enemies after a sleep spell (such as when we fought the gnolls out in the open field), primarily because he believed they had little to no valuable information.

Perhaps taking a quick poll OOC when these situations arise, before continuing IC, to decide amongst ourselves whether or not the enemies might have "critical information", would enable us to quickly determine how to react IC. I do agree that taking prisoners, and even just questioning captives, should be pretty rare in our game, just to make gameplay quicker and easier. It would be different if a Charm spell were in effect, in which case we could freely ask all sorts of questions and gather information that is helpful to us but not necessarily "critical".

[riftstone]

Thordin should have to be forcibly restrained from killing the duergar.

Normally, I agree with you but this bothered me. I do not play an NPC...my character has deep-seated reasons for acting the way he does.

[sulldawga]

Thordin should have to be forcibly restrained from killing the duergar.

Normally, I agree with you but this bothered me. I do not play an NPC...my character has deep-seated reasons for acting the way he does.

What reasons?

[Alethan]

Party Caller: I would suggest a quick vote OOC on what to do to wrap this up. To keep it simple, let's offer two choices:

1. Refuse the surrender, ask no questions of them, and resume the fight to the death after allowing them to pick up their weapons.
2. Accept the surrender, ask all of our questions, and release them after having them swear an oath never to return.

For the record, Lanny is ok with either option, but he will defer his vote to Thordin.

As a general rule, Rhys is not going to go out of his way to capture the things we fight. He will offer no quarter unless it is decided upon prior to the engagement (like, "we need this one alive, so don't kill the evil cleric in the red robes."). But if an adversary surrenders, I don't think he would be willing to then kill them unless they do something deceitful that is counter to their intended surrender. Yes, this is even after watching Saving Private Ryan 20 times and yelling at them to kill that sneaky German bastard every time.

So, at least in this instance, Rhys' vote is #2.

[Alethan]

The other duergar seem increasingly unhappy and nervous that Argsan is communicating in Common. The lieutenant picks up on this and switches back to dwarven. "We traveled three weeks through twisting caves and tunnels to reach this spot, and we are here to meet with an envoy, of the filthy hobgoblin race. Do as I order, onrein, as there are two score more of my people several levels below us, awaiting our scouting report!

Just telling them to leave and not come back isn't going to do much good, if there are more below.

(Also, SEVERAL levels below us??? Aiiieeee!!!)

Maybe just letting them know that there is no envoy to meet with 'cause they're all dead would get them to go away. Also, if we DO decide to make this a base of operations, we'll need to contract a high-level mage to move some stone around for us to block up lower passages that lead out to cave systems that wind on forever! Talk about a wandering monster nightmare!

[frobozz]

Lanny agrees with the suggestion about informing the duergar that the hobgoblin is now out of the picture, and that therefore the duergar mission is over effective immediately, and that therefore they should leave and never return. He is content with the answers to the group's questions. He will still insist that the duergar swear an oath never to return to Castle Mistamere, or any of the castle's passageways below it.

[thirdkingdom]

I will be traveling this evening, and with relatives for the rest of the week. I will have internet access, although my time to post may be sporadic.

[Alethan]

Droids pours the water from the ewer into the bowl...

The game suddenly takes on a futuristic air. I hope these are the droids we're looking for!

(I fight with my auto correct all the time, TK.)

[thirdkingdom]

Droids pours the water from the ewer into the bowl...

The game suddenly takes on a futuristic air. I hope these are the droids we're looking for!

(I fight with my auto correct all the time, TK.)

Hah! You guys had better watch out for Darth Bargle.

Anyway, Android updated their OS the other day, and it looks like saved words don't make the transition.

[thirdkingdom]

Alright, guys. I'd like to step back a second here. It seems that things have slowed down a bit, which is to be expected, as we reach toward one year. However, there are a few players we haven't heard from in a while. Sulldawga has PMed me to let me know he's going to withdraw. I haven't heard from Finglas or riftstone recently, either, and they risk becoming Lost in the Dark (tm).

So, I'd like to hear from you guys -- those interested in continuing -- where you want to go from here. In the interest of keeping the game moving I would be willing to gloss over the PCs leaving this dungeon, since at this point escape is a fair ways off. So please, let me know, and i would like input from everyone.

[Alethan]

Er... What do you mean by...

... I would be willing to gloss over the PCs leaving this dungeon, since at this point escape is a fair ways off.

You mean you'd be willing to shift us out of the dungeon because otherwise it's going to take us a while to find our way out?

I'm still interested in continuing, by the way.

[thirdkingdom]

Er... What do you mean by...

... I would be willing to gloss over the PCs leaving this dungeon, since at this point escape is a fair ways off.

You mean you'd be willing to shift us out of the dungeon because otherwise it's going to take us a while to get out?

Yes. If that is what it will take to get people participating, then yes.

Note that it is not something I would normally do, or normally want to.

[riftstone]

I haven't heard from Finglas or riftstone recently, either, and they risk becoming Lost in the Dark (tm).

Woops. Sorry, my bad. I've been in a combination vacation/traveling mode and my attention has been gathered elsewhere. I will attempt to be a little more diligent after this week.

[Alethan]

Er... What do you mean by...

... I would be willing to gloss over the PCs leaving this dungeon, since at this point escape is a fair ways off.

You mean you'd be willing to shift us out of the dungeon because otherwise it's going to take us a while to get out?

Yes. If that is what it will take to get people participating, then yes.

Note that it is not something I would normally do, or normally want to.

Honestly, it's not something I'd rather see happen in-game, either. We got ourselves into the mess; we should get ourselves out.

But I agree, participation has diminished.

[frobozz]

Long post coming up!

So, there were both IC reasons and OOC reasons why Lanny expressed a wish to get out of the castle and return to Threshold ASAP.


The IC Reasons:

1. The threat from Bargle now seems more imminent. Emissaries might be sent to the castle to deal with this "rebellious" Trandee.
2. The hobgoblin in jail likely knows a lot of valuable information, given his probable connection to the three groups (gnolls, duergar, Bargle)
3. The passages in the basement appear to go on indefitely (at least to the west), and if the group is determined to clear the entire basement level, it could be quite some time (in real time as well as in game time) before that is accomplished. And that doesn't even include the natural caverns, or the third level below the basement level.
4. The castle is not going anywhere, and clearing it just for the sake of clearing it could theoretically be done at any time in the future.
5. There is also the more immediate threat of the duergar. Although the 6 who were released under oath will likely try to persuade the other 40 to pack up and go home, the other 40 are under no such oath to do so, and may decide to return to the basement level anyway (especially if there are differences of opinion among their ranks about how to proceed). So, the sooner the party gets out of the castle, the better.

The OOC Reasons:

1. As TK mentioned, participation is waning from some players, which is understandable given the duration (in real time) of this campaign. A return to Threshold might give the opportunity for everyone to reassess (both IC and OOC) whether or not they want to continue with the campaign. It might also give the opportunity (both IC and OOC) to recruit and bring in some new players and characters to replace those that might wish to step down. I think most people would agree that the game is much more fun when everyone participates (whether it be a larger group of players, like we currently have, or a smaller group).

2. A fresh start might also give the opportunity to evaluate the game-play itself. One thing I try to do in the "party caller" function is to strike a balance between (a) keeping the game moving, and (b) keeping everyone involved in the game. Unfortunately, with low player participation, I am finding that Lanny is often having to make decisions or take actions nearly unilaterally just to keep the game moving. Note that this is NOT what I would prefer to do, as it gives too much control of the game to a single player, which in turn will cause the less active players to become even less active. And while I do not mind doing some of the behind-the-scenes stuff, I do think that divvying up some of those duties could help keep players actively engaged in the game. For example, it was my intention to try to find a new Party Caller, Party Mapper, and maybe someone to take on some of the smaller stuff (like keep up the Table of Contents page) once we finished up with Castle Mistamere.


So, with all that said, Lanny would still like to find his way out of the castle ASAP, for the IC reasons mentioned above, although I (the player) would prefer that we find our way out legitimately if possible. However, if there are enough players indicating a desire to not continue with the game for any reason, then maybe "discovering" a way out sooner rather than later might be for the best, as it would allow an opportunity to recruit and bring in some new players. Thus far I have enjoyed interacting with all the players and characters, and I am still intrigued by the game and its storyline. I think it's cool (and a tribute to TK's abilities) that some clues we discovered almost on Day 1 of the campaign are still proving fruitful almost one year later!

[zebediah]

It is natural to lose some players from time to time, I say we replace those who eventually want to leave and continue from where we are. returning to Threshold is fine, as long as we can find our way out and make it there ourselves.

[Bouv]

Threshold sounds good to me!