OOC Thread

[Rukellian]

The sound of a shovel hitting dirt can be heard in the background. Gustov feels a cold shiver go through his spine..... here is your final warning.

[tooleychris]

Flynn wonders...if the zombies can be turned into beasts of burden...

[tooleychris]

Flynn will need to go on sabbatical, hopefully only for a bit. My job has taken a strange turn which grants more compensation (yay!) But no free time during work (boo!)
Sorry for inconvenience. Feel free to NPC or remove character if need be. I thought this would only last a week but it appears I do a better job than the guy I'm filling in for so it may be indefinite...
Someone take care of my lil healer girl!

[Grognardsw]

Good luck Chris on the job repositioning! Hope to see you back.

Perhaps OnlyMe can take over Flynn in the meantime, which will bring the players together again in going forward?

[Rukellian]

I won't say no to having a player play two characters, so long as they can keep up with it. If no one is interested, I will just npc Flynn and Gustov until I get interest for those positions.

Congratulations Tooley, I think, and do let me know if this sabbatical becomes a character retirement. I will only npc for so long you know...

[onlyme]

I would rather not play 2 players... just need a couple hours to pass for whitsell to show back up...

[Rukellian]

I would rather not play 2 players... just need a couple hours to pass for whitsell to show back up...

I hear you. You will be happy to know that I am just a couple of posts away from having Whitsell rejoin the group.

[Grognardsw]

I'll play Flynn than, if Ruk could do his rolls for me.

[Rukellian]

Shouldn't be a problem, he is all yours, and I guess Amberlynn included

[Rukellian]

Onlyme, your back in now; Sorry it took so long.

[Rukellian]

I will provide an update later today, definitely before I go to work tonight.

[Grognardsw]

sorry... he will await the arrows shot... and attack with mace next round.

Missiles fire is first in combat sequence, so melee attacks of your mace, and Hal, Flynn, Gustov etc. still occur this round.

that doesn't make sense to me... I agree the first one would. But, I thought in most games the 2nd one comes after the other segments are done.

Not to be too rulesy and interupt the story for what won't make a difference, but I realize now onlyme's point was regarding the second arrow coming at the end of a round, which is right. At which point the melee fighters would possibly be in harm's way if the second arrow missed.

With two arrows, and melee multiple attacks (3/2, 2/1+), the second attack falls at the end of the round. A three-attack goes beginning, middle, end of round. If against a foe with a single attack, the multi-attacker always goes first and last.

This is by-the-book and of course could be house-ruled differently.

[Rukellian]

Ah, so that's what he was referring to? The statement would make a little more sense then. Truth be told, I didn't think much of that specific mechanic for a while. I only really considered it when someone missed with an arrow shot. Sorry for the confusion onlyme.

[onlyme]

No worries... I could have asked more clearly.
That said, I don't think it matters if the 2nd arrow hits or not. In most versions, there is a randomness to who gets hit by it. Actually, it may be the opposite. A miss will miss everyone. A hit then has to be determined whom it hit.

[Rukellian]

No worries... I could have asked more clearly.
That said, I don't think it matters if the 2nd arrow hits or not. In most versions, there is a randomness to who gets hit by it. Actually, it may be the opposite. A miss will miss everyone. A hit then has to be determined whom it hit.

Firing into melee with a second arrow can lead to an ally getting hit, yes, but then.... wouldn't that be considered a miss if your actual target was an enemy nearby? And if the second arrow missed, due to a poor roll, the randomness of who or what gets hit by it would make sense. If we go off of those two statements, darn if you roll successfully, darn if you don't, because there is a chance that you will hit an ally regardless.

When using missiles to attack into a melee, it is not possible to choose which particular target will receive the attack; the target should be determined randomly from among all melee participants, and the missile-firer could well hit a friend.

I realize that OSRIC states this as a fact, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. To put some closure to this matter, would you prefer if I went back and rolled for those randomness shots, or make it a house rule that the randomness mechanic will be turned off when firing into melee? I will work with either, but I would like to hear what you guys are comfortable with. A bit late in the game to be implementing this, but yeah, I guess I've overlooked a lot of things in running my first campaign

For those of you who are just about to join the group in their thread, feel free to state your opinion as well.

[Grognardsw]

I would favor only rolling to see if you hit someone else if you miss your roll.

[onlyme]

As long as I know the rule, I will play the PC to act accordingly. Are you saying that a hit only hits the enemy and a miss could hit a friendly?

One thing to keep in mind, a level 1 PC without too many specialization/dex bonuses would miss more often than hit. So either way, I would generally expect Whitsell to hold back until any arrows have safely been shot.

[Zhym]

Hi. I'm one of those about to join the group.

It always seemed weird to me that the by-the-book rules make a better shot more likely to hit a friend.

Suppose Fergus the Fighter (AC4) is in a melee with an orc (AC6). Two archers, Eldred the Elf and Hugo the Human, are at short range and about to fire into melee. Eldred has 18 dexterity and specializes in the longbow, making him +5 to hit with the bow. Hugo has a 9 dexterity and no specialization. Each is a 3rd level fighter (THAC0 18). If both fire into melee, Eldred has a 35% chance of hitting the orc, a 30% chance of hitting Fergus, and a 35% chance of missing both. Hugo has a 22.5% chance of hitting the orc, a 17.5% chance of hitting Fergus, and a 60% chance of missing both. Eldred is 71% more likely than Hugo to hit his friend Fergus, despite being a much better archer! Even worse, Eldred is only about 55% more likely than Hugo to hit the orc. Eldred's skill with the bow is more dangerous to Fergus than it is to the orc!

I do think it should be harder to hit a target engaged in melee than it is to hit one that's not, and that there should be a risk of hitting a friend if the friend is in the melee. A character who is more skilled at the bow should be more likely to hit the enemy and less likely to hit a friend.

Here's my suggestion: use the rule as written, except that when the random target is an ally the attacker's missile bonuses to-hit are changed to penalties. In the scenario above, Eldred would be +5 to hit the orc with the bow, but -5 to hit his friend Fergus. He'd still have a 35% chance of hitting the orc, but only a 5% chance of hitting Fergus, and a 60% chance of missing both. This suggestion still has a character getting more likely to hit allies in melee as he gains experience (and thus, also better with the bow), but I don't know what to do about that.

What do you think, sirs?

[Zhym]

Here's a variation that doesn't increase the chance of hitting allies as a character's level increases:

Roll as before to determine target. If it's the intended target, all bonuses apply and THAC0 is at the character's level. If it's not the intended target, the to-hit roll is without missile bonuses at THAC0 for level 1.

[Zhym]

Another idea:

Roll to hit the chosen target (i.e., no random determination of targets). If it's a "near miss" (e.g., by 4 or less on the to-hit roll), it may have hit a friendly. Roll a second d20, adding the attacker's missile attack bonus. If the second roll is 1-10 (modified), it hits a friendly. The DM can adjust the target role on the d20 as needed based on the number of hostiles vs. enemies. If it's one hostile surrounded by 6 enemies, maybe the DM says it hits a friendly on a 1-19.

This has the advantage, IMO, of better archers being more likely to hit their intended targets and less likely to hit someone else, with accuracy increasing by skill and level.