Character Generation - Kumo Clan

[subaltari]

Konnichiwa! Looks like I'm the one to re-open this thread after nearly ½ years... but I do have a question or two.

I'm going to start out making an Eta Bushi and see where it goes. If I find myself drawn toward weapons and bugei that are more suitable for Budoka, I may switch. My concept so far is that "failed ninja" or that bigger, clumsy cousin whom the elders agreed years ago would be better suited to a less clandestine role. A cousin that would provide security and protection for the black-clad ninja.

1) With the way skills are listed in section 1053.0 (p.9), I'm assuming that any class can select the bugei in that section. I'm a ways off from choosing my weapons, but for non-weapon skills I'm drawn toward karumijutsu and shinobi-jutsu. The latter in particular seems helpful for the big, clumsy bushi when guarding the camp, let alone accompanying the team into the castle, so that he doesn't give them all away off the bat.

2) Per the Campaign Setting thread: The Kumo clan get +5 bugei & training bonuses to karumijutsu and suieijutsu. They also have -3 penalty to edged weapons.
a) Do these apply to all clan members, or ninja only?
b) Is the -3 to skill score or BCS?
c) Do axes, poleaxes, naginata, spears, etc. count as edged weapons?

Domo!

[jemmus]

1) With the way skills are listed in section 1053.0 (p.9), I'm assuming that any class can select the bugei in that section. I'm a ways off from choosing my weapons, but for non-weapon skills I'm drawn toward karumijutsu and shinobi-jutsu. The latter in particular seems helpful for the big, clumsy bushi when guarding the camp, let alone accompanying the team into the castle, so that he doesn't give them all away off the bat.

Any character can have any of the skills (except for the ones that are for ninja only). But a spellcaster with high Wit or Will and low physical attribute scores would have pretty bad BCS for a bugei. And most skills are bonus skills for one or two professions. For example, kenjutsu is a bonus skill for bushi. If it's a bonus skill for the profession, the character's level is added to the BCS.

2) Per the Campaign Setting thread: The Kumo clan get +5 bugei & training bonuses to karumijutsu and suieijutsu. They also have -3 penalty to edged weapons.
a) Do these apply to all clan members, or ninja only?
b) Is the -3 to skill score or BCS?
c) Do axes, poleaxes, naginata, spears, etc. count as edged weapons?

a) Yes, they apply to all clan members. The Kumo clan has a tradition of having master karumijutsu and suieijutsu teachers, but not of having strong edged weapon teachers.
b) The -3 is to starting skill score. It could be overcome with training. (Downtime training is where PCs really advance in power. The GM awards it periodically to the PCs).
c) Yes, those are all edged weapons, except spears. (Japanese yari spears do have knife edges, but they're used as a thrusting weapon). Arrows are not edged weapons for this purpose.

I'm going to start out making an Eta Bushi and see where it goes. If I find myself drawn toward weapons and bugei that are more suitable for Budoka, I may switch. My concept so far is that "failed ninja" or that bigger, clumsy cousin whom the elders agreed years ago would be better suited to a less clandestine role. A cousin that would provide security and protection for the black-clad ninja.

That's a fun concept. I'm trying to imagine how this would work out in gameplay. The group of three ninja and a shugenja have avoided combat so far. (They ran from an oni and withdrew when they were spotted by unarmored peasant bushi guards). I'm afraid that playing a bushi or a budoka in a group that avoids combat could get pretty boring. It could turn into standing around on guard while the ninja are actively doing the covert mission. And the bushi or budoka probably wouldn't be able to see or know what's going on. Sometimes in that situation we post in private threads, so as not to spoiler the action for the players who don't have PCs present to observe it.

So... I'm going to say that, if one or two other people are interested, we can start another game. A regular, non-ninja-themed one. Continued here in OOC, which is the better place for the discussion. viewtopic.php?p=726948#p726948

[subaltari]

So. The summary table (p.41) states that all Bushi get Kenjutsu, Kyujutsu, and choose any 2 other Bugei. So it looks like the sword and bow are not optional.

I'd love to start with Sojutsu (spears), but that would rob a slot from the 2 non-fighting bugei I've already mentioned: Karumi-jutsu and Shinobi-jutsu. If I had to drop one, it'd be the first as I'd still keep shinobi-jutsu, to give the guy some semblance of stealth when he's moving around with the ninja party. Hojojutsu (binding) is another fun one!

In the interest of coordinating Fine and Practical Arts, is there already an Armorer or Bowyer in the group? What about a Physician? And do we have a Tracker yet?

[Marullus]

No Armorer, Bower, Tracker, or Physician.

This is the list of skills already present.

In this post, the spoiler explains the thought process i used to make a non-ninja member of the clan. One important thing is that he allowed your Arts to be picked from the Ninja skills, so you can get more involved that way. But as you pointed out, you have skill options nobody else will.

[subaltari]

Thanks for those links, Marullus! Very handy.

Fixing armour and bows won't benefit anyone else in the party, so my bushi should eschew those in favor of learning a skill that will -- like fixing hurt ninjas (Physician), or Tracking down a target that the ninjas allowed to get away.

I missed the thing about having access to ninja Arts. Would he be able to use his Practical Art slot for that? What would you recommend? Be mindful that he's likely to have a high Deftness but very low Wit.

[jemmus]

I forgot that I said this way back when:
"True, kenjutsu is a core ninja skill. But the Kumo clan doesn't focus on it as much as other ninja clans. But a clan trainee has the option of getting more training in kenjutsu, rather than more training in karumijutsu or suiei. In other words, if you don't take a +5 bonus in one of those, you don't have to take a -3 penalty in kenjutsu."

That might be something for JP's bushi consider.

[Marullus]

Take Ninjutsu instead of Shinobi-jutsu as it is described as the superior skill.

Hensu-jutsu is the ability to use false personas. (You can present yourself as a Bushi without this, of course, which Ninja cannot.)

(I had to choose between them and went with disguises because she's better at it out of the box. That meant she had a great recon scene and then sat out of the actual ninja action. She needs to learn ninjutsu in downtime.)

You might also consider Karumi-Jutsu for climbing and for ninja it comes with ceiling walking, but it's definitely secondary to being able to hide with Ninjutsu. (Your guy probably needs to get into sniper position with his dai-kyu and great strength.)

Now... you CAN take Tracking and it is a bonus skill (add your level) for Ninja, not Bushi. Perhaps GM would allow the bonus.

Physicians are good but Kaida is a magical healer (if she is in the scene).

Hog-tying people is just the best.

Definitely take the +5 with sword option.

Hopefully our second-level-and-after-downtime-learning brings in some assassination and combat!

[jemmus]

Henju-jutsu may be an important skill for a team member along the way. The nakama has already used it a few times to successfully pass through bushi checkpoints in the city of Kofu. Without it, they'd have been identified as three ninja and a shugenja. But they would have had the option of using ninjutsu to pass undetected instead. Nippon is at war, so being readily identified as a warfare-ready bushi could lead to lead to complications. Conscription? Arrest and expulsion? Worse?

I'm going to say that Bonus Skills are profession specific. It's only a Bonus Skill if the RAW say it is.

Kyujutsu (archery) is a mighty skill. A 4-man bow with a generic Willow Leaf arrow (no bonuses to AC penetration or HP damage) can do up to 24 HP damage per attack. Compared to a katana attack by a character with the same Strength doing up up to 15 HP damage per attack.

PCs can take a +5 for karumijutsu or suiei-jutsu, with a -3 to edged weapons skills such as kenjutsu. (Sojutsu is not an edged weapon skill). Or take +0 to karumijutsu or suiei-jutsu, and -0 to an edged weapon skill. (The rulebook alternates between using a hyphen or no hyphen for skills' names. Harmless, right? But it makes text searches harder).

-The rules don't provide for (high) eta starting out with armor or rolling on the katana and wakizashi quality Inheritance table (1083.0). But they do provide for PCs of other than the buke (samurai and ronin) castes gaining 5 On for entering it. That's a fair amount of On. JP's PC can add 1d2 to AC for armor (ashigaru). And +15 to a roll on the dai-sho inheritance table. (Not good. If the clan has any fine bushi blades, they're not giving them to the rookie bushi venturing out on his training mission. )

[subaltari]

OK,now we're getting somewhere... a bushi daikyu archer with ninjutsu? This could be quite the badass, and I really hope we won't be breaking the game as it was conceived by Mssrs. Charrette and Hume.

A few loose ends, though.

Definitely take the +5 with sword option.

Sorry, where is that from? I'm happy enough with losing the -3 with all blades, option.

Take Ninjutsu instead of Shinobi-jutsu as it is described as the superior skill.

Yes, and jemmus has just about convinced me to take henju-jutsu also, because it's better to be sitting bored in camp than to be sitting in some daimyo's jail.

Again I must ask the question: to "buy" the ninja arts do I need to spend my 2 elective Bugei slots, or can I (preferably) use my one caste Practical Art and/or my one Bushi Fine Art (RAW a choice of Armory, Bowyer, Go, Musical Instrument, Physician, or Hawking).

The rules don't provide for (high) eta starting out with armor or rolling on the katana and wakizashi quality Inheritance table (1083.0). But they do provide for PCs of other than the buke (samurai and ronin) castes gaining 5 On for entering it. That's a fair amount of On. JP's PC can add 1d2 to AC for armor (ashigaru). And +15 to a roll on the dai-sho inheritance table. (Not good. If the clan has any fine bushi blades, they're not giving them to the rookie bushi venturing out on his training mission.)

Are these house rules? +15 is a steep penalty on a d20 table compared to the RAW +2 for non-buke, but... two crappy swords are better than no swords, so I'll take them! Also doesn't the ashigaru give base AC 3 (for RF) plus the 1d2, or just the 1d2? (ref 1082.0)

And speaking of armor, I haven't found the rules for encumbrance, or how badly one's armor is going to mess with one's ability to climb, jump, etc. and do awesome ninja stuff.

Might switch the PC's name to Dengo (as an eta, he'll be just plain Dengo), inspired by one of the characters in Neal Stephenson's masterful novel, Cryptonomicon.

[Marullus]

Again I must ask the question: to "buy" the ninja arts do I need to spend my 2 elective Bugei slots, or can I (preferably) use my one caste Practical Art and/or my one Bushi Fine Art (RAW a choice of Armory, Bowyer, Go, Musical Instrument, Physician, or Hawking).

Ninjutsu is a Bugei.
(You pick one second Bugei, then.)
Hensu-jutsu is a Fine Art.
You still have your Practical Art.

[jemmus]

OK,now we're getting somewhere... a bushi daikyu archer with ninjutsu? This could be quite the badass, and I really hope we won't be breaking the game as it was conceived by Mssrs. Charrette and Hume.

A few loose ends, though.

Definitely take the +5 with sword option.

Sorry, where is that from? I'm happy enough with losing the -3 with all blades, option.

Take Ninjutsu instead of Shinobi-jutsu as it is described as the superior skill.

Yes, and jemmus has just about convinced me to take henju-jutsu also, because it's better to be sitting bored in camp than to be sitting in some daimyo's jail.

Again I must ask the question: to "buy" the ninja arts do I need to spend my 2 elective Bugei slots, or can I (preferably) use my one caste Practical Art and/or my one Bushi Fine Art (RAW a choice of Armory, Bowyer, Go, Musical Instrument, Physician, or Hawking).

The rules don't provide for (high) eta starting out with armor or rolling on the katana and wakizashi quality Inheritance table (1083.0). But they do provide for PCs of other than the buke (samurai and ronin) castes gaining 5 On for entering it. That's a fair amount of On. JP's PC can add 1d2 to AC for armor (ashigaru). And +15 to a roll on the dai-sho inheritance table. (Not good. If the clan has any fine bushi blades, they're not giving them to the rookie bushi venturing out on his training mission.)

Are these house rules? +15 is a steep penalty on a d20 table compared to the RAW +2 for non-buke, but... two crappy swords are better than no swords, so I'll take them! Also doesn't the ashigaru give base AC 3 (for RF) plus the 1d2, or just the 1d2? (ref 1082.0)

And speaking of armor, I haven't found the rules for encumbrance, or how badly one's armor is going to mess with one's ability to climb, jump, etc. and do awesome ninja stuff.

Might switch the PC's name to Dengo (as an eta, he'll be just plain Dengo), inspired by one of the characters in Neal Stephenson's masterful novel, Cryptonomicon.

Ninjutsu is a pretty powerful skill for a bushi, so I'm going to say you have to use one of your bugei for it. Instead of a bushi fine art, you can choose a ninja art. Though other bushi might think it odd that your PC isn't skilled in one of the classic bushi arts (if it ever comes up).

OK, we'll follow the RAW and say +2 on the dai-sho inheritance roll because of non-buke caste. As I read it, non-buke only get a wakizashi, no katana (1082.0). Your PC may have a goal/quest built-in from the start-- "I need a katana!"

I don't find where it says that PCs start with AC3 ashigaru armor. Not challenging your statement, I just haven't found the rule yet. In any event, add 1d2 for the On of moving into the bushi profession. (The ON is from members of the clan, of course, not the public. Following the course of a bushi in a mountain ninja clan shows exceptional will and determination). Please note (house rule, but I think most Bushido players would agree), ninjutsu rolls will have stiff minuses will wearing standard ashigaru armor. There's special ninja armor with thread carefully woven through every intersection of links or plates to prevent any clinking at all).

Encumbrance: The amazing Excel spreadsheet will calculate that for you. You just have to enter the weight of the items and you're done. (The encumbrance rules are in the section on the Strength attribute. Yes, Bushido takes the dreaded old school encumbrance rules to a new scientific/engineering level).

(I really enjoyed Cryptonomicon. Stephenson writes with so much detail and clarity. Some scenes are like literature, mixed into the cyberpunk (or whatever) plot).

[jemmus]

I see that Marullus cut to the chase while I was typing my post. Agreed and right on.

[Marullus]

On skills, don't forget you get a second Practical Art as an Eta.
(I think the lack of a Fine Art for an Eta Ashigaru would likely be overlooked or just dismissed by Buke because you are such a scrub, anyway.)

On armor....

I think the key phrase is:

Buke add 1D3 to Armor Class of armor; other receive
suit of Ashigaru-style armor of Armor Class Rank Factor + 1D3.

This implies you have something that you are adding 1d3 to. It is not clear what that is. "Rank Factor" could mean High =3 in this case. Otherwise, you have a 66% chance of no armor and have no chance of anything but the lowest lightest option with the other 33%.

I would allow "partial light ashigaru armor" for AC 3 and be done. That's the highest armor allowable in normal wear without suspicion (and he isn't going to be claiming military rank or service except by lying/hensu-jutsu).

At that level it says it is lacquered leather or brigandine, which I don't think is particularly noisy. The Ninja armors allow higher AC heavy armor options (lowest is AC 4 at partial) and i wouldn't penalize extra. Unsilenced ninja armor applies a penalty to ninjutsu equal to AC so YOU COULD have -3 BCS, which seems harsh enough. I think it implies the lower AC (AC 3 and below) don't have penalties, since nobody is taking a -2 for Ninja Garb.

Otherwise, just wear Winter Garb or Ninja Garb for AC 2 and don't worry about it.

Don't forget it comes with a Jingasa hat, which is dope.

[jemmus]

I read Marullus's post twice. Agreed, for everything.

[subaltari]

Sorry about the delays this week. By the way, I tend to be a weekday gamer. Other than the occasional Saturday, you'll rarely see me post on weekends.

We're making progress! On this pass, I'll address equipment first and then skills. There are several questions in here; if you have trouble finding them, I'll edit to point them out

Armor: I'm fine with my bushi owning a simple set of AC3 ashigaru. He might be leaving it at home anyway, or in horse/mule baggage for most of the missions, and instead wearing quieter clothing or disguises. Now, if the clan could furnish him with that sneaky ninja armor... though I could also see a proper bushi losing On for wearing ninja garb.

Swords: 1082.0 has interesting wording: "a weapon for each Bugei..." and "If character is not of Buke Caste, add a Wakizashi for Kenjutsu," which to me means 1+1=2 swords. But Daisho are also mentioned on the next page for samurai, so why is there that exception for Buke on this page? Your reading of it is equally valid.
As with the armor I see the possibility of hooking him up with a ninja-to, which is after all effectively a katana of Average/Inferior quality, but again there may be "bad optics" with a bushi carrying that type of weapon...

Skills:
CLASS BUGEI: Kenjutsu, Kyujutsu, *Ninjutsu, and one more. I've narrowed it down either to a bugei associated with concealable or innocuous weapons (kusarigama? bo & tetsubo?) in keeping with disguise; or Karumijutsu (with or without ninja ceiling-walking); or the fun one, Hojojutsu.
Here I need some advice based on your superior knowledge of Bushido cultural norms. Would the ninja on a mission normally execute the guards and witnesses, rather than tying them up? Or are the Kumo Clan an aberration known for being more humane to non-target personnel? If it's the former I see less point in learning to tie rope restraints, though hojojutsu can also help a PC get out of same.

CLASS FINE ART: Standard bushi choose one art from: (Armory, Bowyer, Go, Musical Instrument, Physician, Hawking).
Kumo Clan bushi can take a Ninja Art, as previously discussed. I'm considering Henjujutsu, but he's gonna suck at it (BCS 2 unless I move a bunch of points into Wit & Will, which I'm not sure I should do). I'm not clear enough on the game mechanics yet, but BCS of 2 with the skill doesn't seem much better than just donning peasant attire and "fake it till I make it" without the skill.
Another option would be Kuji-kuri, which seems useful for team comms, but the scores would still be low.

CASTE SKILLS: Katakana, Hiragana, and one Practical Art. Tracking seems useful but would suffer the same awful score as henjujutsu. Hunting is a skill he'd be good at; he could use his bow to help feed the nakama whilst we're hanging out on a mountainside or whatever.

Next are rolls. It looks like the only rolls I need to make are Money (4 dice), Inheritance (d20 for sword), and number of kyu arrows (4d6).

[subaltari]

Money rolls: [4d3]=10 Gold, [4d6]=16 Silver, [4d6x10]=12x10=120 Copper

Wakizashi Quality [1d20-2]=1-2=-1
Oopsie that should have been +2, for a result of 3. If we use the left-hand column for High Eta, that yields him a Superior wakizashi. He'll take it!

Total Arrows [4d6]=15
(His bow is a 3-Man rated Daikyu, btw. Does that give +30 yards to all Range brackets, or only Long Range?)

[Marullus]

Sword:
If you are Buke you get a dai-sho. Everyone else gets a wakizashi and no katana. Low class people aren't supposed to wear a dai-sho. (In our current adventure, the uppity merchant son NPC is doing so specifically to put on airs.)

Armor:
The purpose of taking AC 3 Light Ashigaru is that you CAN wear it casually all the time without suspicion, and it shouldn't provide a penalty (as AC 2 Ninja Garb and Winter Clothes don't either).

If you want armor you keep hidden until the job requires it, then roll 1d3+3 and see how high you can get.

Skills
Rather than a concealable weapon, have you considered unarmed? If you are a high-STR brute with a kock-ass bow, consider adding Sumai. Otherwise Atemi-Waza is for strikes and blows and Jujitsu is throws. They aren't bonus Skills so you won't add your level to the roll, but you can still be plenty skilled.

Considering Karumijutsu is also good.

There is no consideration of making a ninja who isn't a ninja in Bushido. I will let Jemmus answer about norms.

You get languages automatically, which includes Kuji-kuri.

Hensu-jutsu is good because it just works. you have practiced personas and they are automatically successful until you arouse suspicion. Then your poor skill will matter.

[Marullus]

If we use the left-hand column for High Eta, that yields him a Superior wakizashi. He'll take it! [/ooc]

That's awesome! That's +2 BCS and +2 damage with it!

(His bow is a 3-Man rated Daikyu, btw. Does that give +30 yards to all Range brackets, or only Long Range?)

Yes!

[jemmus]

First, I'm going to clarify something that I missed in my last post, when I agreed with Marullus's summary. The ninjutsu skill's rules (1056.1) specific that there's a penalty of -1 per point of AC for unsilenced armor. I'm going to say that only ninja armor is silenced. Regarding ninja armor, the nakama learned that the clan has an underground storeroom of items between The Village and the road to the city of Kofu. Clan members can borrow from it when on a mission. But if they lose or expend the item, the replacement cost comes from their "allowance."

As for customs, the Kumo clan (and most ninja clans) try to avoid killing at all. Bodies cause a scene and loudly announce the presence of intruders (now or in the past). They can possibly leave clues, possibly leave a trail, and might strengthen the people of the target's resolve to find the killers. (On the other hand, the clan has no qualms about killing if it's an aid to achieving the mission. For example, a murder to frame someone, a body left to draw attention away from something else, etc.) And then their are the times when combat is just unavoidable. That would probably be when the bushi is most valuable to the bushi.

Hojojutsu could be useful if a situation came up where the nakama wanted to immobilize someone without killing them. The clan emphasizes efficiency over moral considerations, but it's also not a cruel or sadistic clan. (Some of the ninja clans are, though). The nakama might, for example, want to immobilize the grandma who accidentally saw them rather than killing her in cold blood. Or to immobilize and spare the daimyo's son rather than killing him, to try avoid enraging a samurai clan who might go on a determined campaign to find and exterminate the Kumo clan.

Agreed, hensu-jutsu with BCS 2 might be a waste. It's not much better than (well, twice better than) just rolling on the hensu-jutsu skill you don't know and hoping for a natural 1 Critical Success. The way I see it, hensu-jutsu rolls are needed when actively in a guise and trying to convince someone of one's false identity. Such as when Kaida was playing the role of young noblewoman and trying to talk her way into the merchant's house. Just walking down the street in peasant's clothes trying to go unnoticed shouldn't require a roll. But-- Kofu currently has checkpoints at every street intersection the nakama has seen. Travelers and regular city dwellers are being inspected by Takeda clan staff (of mostly bushi, but there was one shugenja). Hensu-jutsu rolls are needed at checkpoints. But bushi have notoriously low Wit scores, which mean low Detection of Hidden Things BCS (Wit saving throws). On the other hand, at more important checkpoints, several guards each do DoHT checks.

Looks like it's coming together!

[jemmus]

The post above was edited after posting. I added the paragraph about hensu-jutsu.