OOC

[jemmus]

Sounds good to me. Interesting stuff!

[tibbius]

Ok. Let's take a beat while I figure out what things should happen next, and you can work out Dungeon Goons character sheets with your items and spells and three level ups.

[Grognardsw]

So…. I have a proposition…
Alternative Magic System Proposal

What do others think?

jesus fucking christ what’s next, Gurps?!

just kidding

thank you j for the thoughtful alternatives to mr. treme’s unforgiving views on casters

[tibbius]

So…. I have a proposition…
Alternative Magic System Proposal

What do others think?

jesus fucking christ what’s next, Gurps?!

just kidding

thank you j for the thoughtful alternatives to mr. treme’s unforgiving views on casters

GURPS is a bridge too far for me. I think we can handle Juramenta's ideas pretty easily.

I never have liked DnD style casters. Dungeon Goons = much more to my liking. J's take is a compromise for me.

[Juramenta]

For me the best magic system I have ever seen was Mage the Ascension from White Wolf.
It allowed you to be the most creative caster I haven't seen replicated in any other game.

Anyway, for the first few tweaks.
Rule tweak 1:
Quick Fix to a magical healing loophole
- Magical healing can never restore self-inflicted magical damage through casting.
(This prevents casters from healing back the damage they inflicted on themselves)

Rule tweak 2:
Small duration spell nerf
Since the player rolls all checks, treating duration spells like NPCs doesn’t really work and making them full PC equivalents would give them too much HP.

New rule: A duration spell starts with half of the caster’s natural maximum HP (rounded up) when created.
Example: If a caster has 10 HP, the duration spell has 5 HP.
So let's say a field of entangling vines is cast. If something attacks the vines, it still rolls to defend, but is easier to take out than a pc would. Since it only has 5 hp.

I think this adjustment ensures duration spells remain useful but not overpowered.
It also makes them juicier targets to take out, putting more drain on the caster each time he is forced to re-cast it.

[Grognardsw]

I have posted my new Dungeon Goons sheet in the Characters and Rules thread.

I think the one spellbook per spell is not practical. A mid-level wizard would need a train of pack mules to go adventuring.

[tibbius]

Here, try this on for size.

Land of Mag char sheet.png (30.99 KiB) Viewed 318 times

[tibbius]

I guess just scratch the "each tome can hold 1 spell" … that seems to be an itchy spot?

[Juramenta]

@Tibbius

I'm changing my char to the new rule system.
Can you give me a base DS (Which goes up +1 on a successful or +2 in case of a failed roll) to cast the Utility Spell (Divination) from the previous game?
For the rest, I was thinking of the following spells:
- Parley Trick: (Ghost Light) Staff shines with blue-ish light; otherworldly entities like spirits and ghosts become slightly visible with a faint outline whenever they come inside the light. In return, they can see the others as well, although Bishop, being a spirit beacon, is still most clear for them to see and vice versa.
- Damaging spell: (Spirit hex) He commands a nearby spirit to attack the target. The spirit or ghost uses the environment against the target for the attack. They appear like random, unlucky events. A spirit of stone decides the stalactite above the target just happens to come loose and fall upon the target. Some ghost makes the target misstep and strain its ankle etc. (I dropped the guidance cleric power and went for a damaging version instead)
- Sustaining spell: (Animate) works pretty much the same way as before.

I like to keep the material components for both the sustaining spell and utility spell for rp purposes.
The Animate spell requires a suitable host (crafted from materials or a dead body) for the spirit to inhabit.
Divination becomes Converse with Otherworldly Entity, allowing him to converse with the dead and other creatures like spirits residing in other planes for information. He still needs bones as material components to converse with them.

[tibbius]

@Tibbius

I'm changing my char to the new rule system.
Can you give me a base DS (Which goes up +1 on a successful or +2 in case of a failed roll) ...

First of all, I hate the beancounting of +1 / +2. Just take HP damage on a failed roll and move forward.

Second:
to cast the Utility Spell (Divination) DS 8

(Ghost Light) DS 8

(Spirit hex) DS varies — pick the DS, that is the potence of the spirit he commands, if it is more potent than opponent it vanquishes, otherwise it dissipates

(Animate) DS 10

Each of these count as an inventory item, adding to Strain.

[Juramenta]

Sounds good, ill change it it in the rules.

[Juramenta]

Dungeon Goons New Magic System

Spell Inventory:
Each spell still takes up an inventory slot.
Max amount of spells that can be stored is linked to the Erudite score.
Just as a shield adds to the attack, so would a wand or other magic specific gear add to the roll per original rule: A really dedicated Conjurer can
spend weeks prior to adventuring to create a focus or totem. If this item is in the mage’s possession when casting the spell, they can add a +1 bonus to rolls to cast spells.


Damaging Spells
- These function similarly to weapons.
- They can be cast repeatedly without being forgotten.
- They follow the same rules for rolling and damage as melee or ranged attacks but use Erudite instead of Brute.
- Just like weapons, damaging spells start at +1 and can be upgraded through training or magical enhancements.
- Unlike weapons, spells cannot be disarmed, but they are also harder to upgrade compared to just finding a better sword.

Non-Damaging Spells (Utility Spells)
- These require a DS (difficulty score) check based on the spell's base DS (decided upon during creation).
- Failing a roll deals 1hp damage, which cannot be healed by magic, only resting.

Duration-Based Spells (Concentration Spells)
- These require a DS (difficulty score) check based on the spell's base DS (decided upon during creation).
- The caster’s maximum HP is reduced while the spell remains active.
- The amount of HP drain depends on the spell’s level and power.
- A duration spell starts with half of the caster’s natural maximum HP (rounded up) when created.

Example: A summoning spell at level 1 gives the summon a +1 bonus to Brute, Skulker, or Erudite, but the caster’s max HP is drained by the spell’s level while it's maintained.
If the concentration spell is dispelled or destroyed, the max HP drain remains as damage until the caster rests or receives magical healing.
So a level 4 summon, read 4 points to spend on stats, would turn the 10hp into max 6hp for the entire duration. Once the spells ends, the max restores to it's original score, but the amount turns into damage taken like a non-damaging spell and can be restored in the same way.

The way a duration spell takes damage depends on its nature:
A summons or some area-effect like a 'web' spell can take damage.
Non-physical effects that are ongoing (e.g., continuous Detect Magic) can only be ended through dispel or other magic unraveling effects.

Area of Effect Spells
- AoE spells cost HP per additional target.
Example: A Flaming Chariot spell affects one target for free, but each extra target costs 1 HP.
- The max number of targets is equal to the caster’s level.
A level 1 caster can hit one target.
A level 4 caster can hit up to 4 targets but loses 3 HP in doing so.
- Duration spells cannot be cast as AoE, as that would be too powerful.

Parley Tricks
Parley Tricks are small magical effects that add flair to a caster’s abilities. While minor in effect, they still take up an inventory slot to create.
These spells aren’t commonly found for purchase. Instead, they are learned from other casters or personally developed, making each one unique in both its casting method and visual style.

Some examples:
- Revive a near-dead plant, bringing it back to full health.
- Create minor illusions, like a flickering shadow or a floating sigil.
- Conjure a simple light, illuminating a small area.

Parley Tricks can be cast at will, but their uniqueness lies in how each caster personalizes them, making their magic truly their own.

[Juramenta]

(Ghost Light) DS 8

(Spirit hex) DS varies — pick the DS, that is the potence of the spirit he commands, if it is more potent than opponent it vanquishes, otherwise it dissipates

The description for spirit hex was mostly flavor, I wanted to use it as a damaging spell aka weapon attack using erudite.
If that is okay by you?

[tibbius]

(Ghost Light) DS 8

(Spirit hex) DS varies — pick the DS, that is the potence of the spirit he commands, if it is more potent than opponent it vanquishes, otherwise it dissipates

The description for spirit hex was mostly flavor, I wanted to use it as a damaging spell aka weapon attack using erudite.
If that is okay by you?

Yes, that is ok!

[tibbius]

"judgement" lol I know that's the correct spelling for this context, but in my work life it's always "judgment" and I have a tough time with the middle "e" outside of work.

[jemmus]

Me too. The no e bothers me.

[Juramenta]

I noticed I forgot to inform you all. I have the other gm's of the games I play in Discord. So when I informed them of it, I thought I informed every gm of my absence.
I've been sick the last couple of weeks, but I'm finally starting to recover. Just constantly tired. I'll will read up on our progress and post as soon as possible.

[jemmus]

Sorry to hear bro. Rest up and see you hear when you feel better.

[tibbius]

I noticed I forgot to inform you all. I have the other gm's of the games I play in Discord. So when I informed them of it, I thought I informed every gm of my absence.
I've been sick the last couple of weeks, but I'm finally starting to recover. Just constantly tired. I'll will read up on our progress and post as soon as possible.

Aw. Hoping you keep feeling better.

[Grognardsw]

Hope you feel better.