Rules Discussion

[jemmus]

For discussing and clarifying the Boot Hill 3E rules.

[jemmus]

Shooting
Here's how I understand gunfights are done.
--Apply accuracy modifiers (p.26).
--Roll to hit (1d20) vs. Coordination, adding the character's Skill with that category of weapon.
--Make a hit location roll (1d20 on Table 10, p. 38)
--Make a wound severity roll (1d20 on Table 11, p. 39)
--If the shot was a hit, move the hit location. This is available for all hits. But this is never available if the Skill in the weapon is only 1. Basically, the character can move the location of the hit on the target a number of points up or down according to his skill with that category of weapon. For example, "I use my Pistol skill of 1 to move the hit up from Left Arm to Right Arm," or, "I use my 2 Rifle skill to move the hit down from Chest to Abdomen." The range of the shot determines how any points of his skill with the weapon he can use to move the hit location around. (Table 12, p. 38). (The Range is not a fixed number, it varies by category of weapon). The weapon skill score is rounded down. Which means that a character with a Skill of 1 in a weapon can never move a hit to a different location.

--If a character gets a Mortal wound, he is dead. Unless he rolls on his Luck attribute. If he succeeds, the wound is reduced to a Light Wound, but the player has to RP an explanation.
--Characters can also die from taking "HP" damage exceeding their Strength score. No ST for that.

You can adjust your work and weapon skills now, if you'd like. No shots have been fired, as yet.

[jemmus]

[Posted in wrong thread, post removed.]

[Marullus]

(Did you mean to put this in the other thread?)

[jemmus]

Whoops! I'll move it. Despite my wordiness, I've been having to post pretty hastily recently.

[jemmus]

Boot Hill is pretty different than other RPGs. Every Combat Turn (6 seconds), we roll for Initiative. The losing side has to state its actions first. Characters get one action per turn. E.g. shooting, moving, shooting, moving then shooting, or other various actions that come up (turn a table over, throw a mug, etc.) I think we have to consider saying dialogue an action.

Here's something to help us sort out the events so far in BH rules terms.
-Two cowboys rode into the dining room. Jake was knocked down and a dinner table was overturned. There's potential for conflict, so a 6-second Combat Turn opened up.
-Turn 1 started. The Hoffmans won initiative, followed by the party, then the cowboys.
-Hoffman yelled something to his kids and they ran to the kitchen. Hoffman pulled out a shotgun.
-Paladin overturned a table, Sebastian stabbed steaks and threw a coffee cup at Cowboy #1. (This was out of synch, because the table was already overturned by then. We'll get the hang of how the kind of counter-intuitive BH rules work. I missed stating it clearly, but it hit and the cowboy took HP damage. I'm applying the rules for Brawling here). Andreas Larson sidled away to a wall. Jonathan admonished the cowboys. Outside, Preacher John Carry. Charlie took a position of observing the situation and covering his companions.
-Cowboy #1 dismounted and confronted Sebastian and Cowboy #2 dismounted and confronted Jonathan. Six more Cowboys interacted with John Carry and rode into the bar.
End of Combat Turn 1.

So-- when a Combat Turn opens, we need to be aware that we're following an Initiative sequence, and each character gets six seconds of time until the next turn. That time can be used saying dialogue, with dialogue being an action for the turn. It's not like in other PBP games, where it's customary to post PC's actions after GM posts. With BH, we need to wait until the next turn is announced, to avoid spending the PC's action prematurely. (This is only in Combat Turns and Gunfight Turns. We won't have to play the entire game that way).

We'll consider the little extra dialogue after the end of Turn 1 to have happened during the turn. Sorry for the not very tidy at all start. Having to go back and chart the events so far to fit them into Boot Hill's gameplay structure. Alright, on to Turn 2!

[jemmus]

It seems that declaring a turn's actions before actually acting only requires stating very general, non-specific action. P. 28:
When characters are declaring their actions for the turn, they must state whether they are:
• Moving, and if so, how fast;
• Shooting;
• Moving and shooting;
• Pursuing some other action, with any particulars the Judge asks for.

[jemmus]

Fast Draw
The Fast Draw skill is required to attempt a fast draw at all (p.35). A successful fast draw roll affects the count/phase in a Shootout Turn in which the character shoots. That is, a fast draw allows the shooter to shoot sooner in the turn.

Types of Shots
Only Careful Shots can be shot during a 6-second Combat Turn. If anyone wants to shoot any other kind of shot, the time scale changes to Shootout Turn.
In a 1-Second Shootout Turn, the type of shot determines how many shots the character can shoot.
Careful - 1. To hit is Coordination score.
Steady - 2 Coordination/2.
Hipshot - 3. Coordination/4.
Fanfiring - 6. Chance to hit is 1, or Pistol skill.
(pp. 23-24)

When stating shooting actions, we should state:
-The target
-Firearm used and its speed (p.42)
-Type of shot (p. 24)
-Modifiers for the weapon's range (p.42), movement, wounds, etc. (p.26)
-Wound location (p.38)
-Wound severity (p.38)
-Wound location movement (p.38)

[jemmus]

Brawling/Grappling/Knife Fights
In these fights, each character gets two attacks per turn. The characters alternate:
This turn's Initiative Winner
Initiative Loser
Initiative Winner
Initiative Loser.
Let's state both attacks for the turn and the rolls. That way we can resolve the attacks for the turn in just one post and keep moving.

[jemmus]

Sebastian

Sebastian: Coordination vs 18 [1d20]=16 Sebastian: Caused Wound location [1d20]=3 Severity [1d6]=4

(For this example I just kept the rolls from the post. Thanks for posting our first gunshots action, bluetongue).

Let's do a walk-through of the first shot so we can all see how it's done.
We're in a 6-second Combat Turn, so a character can take 1 or 2 shots. We'll just do the first shot.

1st) To hit d20 roll.
Apply modifiers on Table 4 Accuracy Modifiers (p. 26) Sebastian is Point Blank range (2 yds or less) from Cowboy 5. +4 to hit. Target is Running/Trotting, -2. Net modification is +2. Sebastian's Coordination is 18, so he almost automatically hits. (A 20 is an automatic miss). Sebastian's 16 hits.

2nd) Roll d20 for Wound Location (p.127). (All of the tables for wounds rolls are together on that page).
3 is Right Leg. Since it's Short Range (or Point Blank with a pistol), Sebastian can use his weapon Skill to move the location. He has 2 Skill in pistols, so he can move the location up to 2 point up or down. For example, he could move the 3 result to 5 (Left Arm).

3rd) Roll d6 for Wound Severity.
Sebastian rolled a 4, Serious Wound. Cowboy 5 gets an Accuracy Modifier of -4 when he shoots (p.26, Table 4 again). He also get 4 Wound Points, -1 because it's an arm or leg wound. 3 total. If Cowboy 5 get more wound points than his Strength, he passes out (not dies). Only a Mortal Wound can kill him.

There's one more thing to check, this first time. The Weapon's Wound Modifier. A buffalo rifle adds +1 Wound Point, a thrown spear is -1. All of the more common weapons are +0, so don't need to worry about this much.

[jemmus]

Shootout Turns - 1 second
Shootout turns are divided into 6 counts. Characters' shots occur in order of the place in the counts. The character's count is determined by a few things.

-The choice of type of shot (hipshot, steady, careful, etc.) (p. 34). Faster shots come on earlier counts during the turn, but they're not as accurate. (See the modifiers table on p. 24). So the character has to consider firing a more accurate shot later in the turn (and possibly getting a mortal wound earlier in the turn), or getting an earlier shot off with less chance to hit.

-The Speed of their weapon, as listed on p.42. Modifiers on Table 8 (p. 36) apply.

-In a tie, the character with the higher coordination shoots first.

Movement actions do not happen on a count. It seems to me that they happen concurrently with the 6 counts per turn.

Characters can do as many shots/actions as they can in the 6 counts. For example, a Normal Draw takes 3 counts. The character could also take a Steady shot, which also takes 3 counts (for 6 counts total). Or 3 Fanned shots, which take 1 Count each (again, for a total of 6 counts).

[jemmus]

Having posted the Careful Shot I am sticking with that for my Shoot-out Turn action but I wanted to see if my understanding of the play is correct. For example, gun drawn already, Sebastian could hipshot less accurately on count 2-4-6, using the following macro:

Sebastian: hipshot vs 18/4 Co-or +Pistol 2, +4 point blank = 10 or less to hit: [1d20]=8[1d20]=20[1d20]=15

using a 'fast' speed pistol with no modifier to wound. So that hits and wounds Cowboy X on count 2, fumbles count 4, misses count 6.

Is that correct?

(Replying in the Rules Discussion thread, rather than the OOC thread).
That's mostly correct. A hipshot takes 2 of 6 available counts. But I think Sebastian has a single-action revolver, which has to be cocked after every shot. That take 1 count. So:
Hipshot - 2
Cock - 3
Hipshot - 5
Cock - 6.

I was wrong, cocking a weapon doesn't take a count. Cocking is included in the shot. Cocking beforehand reduces the count by the next turn. For example, Hipshot would be on 1 instead of 2 next turn. So yes, you're right, Sebastian could take three hipshots this turn.

And we have to bear in mind how much ammo the weapon has left.

[jemmus]

It looks like brawling or grappling simply isn't possible in a shootout turn. That changes some of the NPCs' planned actions. Or do you guys want to make a house rule about that? To me it would seem that a character who was about to try to take someone down could still try that, even though guns have been drawn or fired. Brawling/grappling gets two attacks every 6 seconds (a Combat Turn). So every third Shootout Turn, they could swing a punch or try to wrestle someone down.

[jemmus]

If you guys don't mind, I'm going to change initiative dice rolls from 1d6 to 1d20. I don't see any point in re-rolling some many d6 ties. We just need random results for who goes in what order. (I suppose in live tabletop play the tie-breaker rolls would add some good life-or-death tension and drama).

[Rex]

works for me

[jemmus]

For reference, horses' quality and prices. (p.92)

Poor horse (Str 6-10) $20
Fair horse (Str 11-15) $50
Good horse (Str 16-20) $100
Excellent horse (Str 21-25) $150

[Thumper]

I'm having a difficult time deciphering the pros/cons of Single vs Double action revolvers. The information regarding the subject is spread in multiple places of the rule book. I get that SAR can be cocked during draw then fired at the shootout tick for the type of shot taken. It also sounds like the rate of fire of a DAR is faster. But I am missing how to quantify the benefit of a DA. Help?

[jemmus]

Welcome Thumper! So far, I haven't seen any benefits of a DAR over an SAR. The DAR is actually Average speed (+0), compared to the SAR's Fast (+1). Reload rate is the same for both (3) Anyone spotted any benefits of a DAR over an SAR?

[jemmus]

Survival rules
I posted this in the Charlie and Ezekiel thread.

Charlie's Survival roll succeeded, but it was within two points of his skill score. Per the rules, Charlie (only) would lose 1 point of Strength. But you guys have plenty of provisions, and you're not relying on finding food and water. The rules also mention that Survival also involves finding suitable safe shelter for the night. It's a clear night in early June, so shelter shouldn't be a big deal. No loss of 1 Strength for Charlie.

Please note these other rules:
-If Charlie failed his Survival roll, he, Ezekiel, and the horses would have lost 1 Strength, Coordination, and Observation each; and
-Charlie has to roll 2 over his Survival skill score not to lose 1 Strength.
So for example, the Survival skill is 13. Charlie rolls a 13. The party doesn't lose Strength, Coordination, and Observation. But he loses 1 Strength.

If the roll had failed, the entire party (including horses) would have lost 1 point each of Strength, Coordination, and Observation. For Charlie not to lose any Strength in a day, his roll has to beat his Survival skill by more than 2.[/ooc]

It seems that Survival applies whenever characters enter an "inhospitable wilderness." So, what if no characters have the Survival skill? I suppose they (and their horses) automatically lose 1 point each of Strength, Coordination, and Observation every day. But-- per the rules on p.11, they try rolling a d20 for a skill they don't have. If they roll a 1, followed by a successful Luck check, they succeed at the skill.

[Rex]

The rules favor SAR as far as I can tell. In real life SAR was preferred until DARs became cheap enough to compete with SARs, then the DAR became dominate. As far as speed goes it depends on users skill. For someone just learning the DAR will be faster but the SAR can be just as fast or faster with practice. There were some very fast SAR shooters in those days at the shows that were well documented, but most/all also shot daily for practice. Annie Oakley famously shot 4 50 round boxes of ammo a day through her revolvers when on tour just for practice and another 4-8 boxes for a show. Talent combined with practice rules in the real world. I much prefer a revolver to an auto and mostly shoot a DAR now. Here is the fastest 8 and 12 shots ever. Double Action Revolver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM