OOC

[rremedio]

There are things that I like to ask the players before the game starts. Usually it's about character generation because I think the DM should avoid things that the players clearly don't like.

I never DMed Darker Dungeons before, but it is in fact a house ruled BECMI. I want to keep most things by the book, but one important thing will be different: the Elf and Magic User classes which will be the usual classes you all know and not the swapped classes from Darker Dungeons (I'll post the details in the "Special Classes" topic soon). This is because an important part of Thunder Rift history is the way it is because of Magic Users being traditional Magic Users (the setting was created around the D&D "Black Box" from the early 90ies).

Now, my questions:

First thing is about ability rolls for character generation. In Darker Dungeons you get the scores 16 14 13 12 11 9 and you can place them between the abilities as you wish. You can also raise one of them (only one) by 2 by lowering all the others by 1. If guys don't like this and want to roll for your abilities, I may roll 6 sets of abilities and you choose the one you like the most and you will be able to swap two ability scores. What do you think? If we decide not to use the standard Darker Dungeons rules for this, I'll change the class requirements for ability scores. I'll consider other ideas if you come up with any.

About Lupines: Lupines are the Darker Dungeons equivalent for the Mystic RC class. There is nothing about them in Thunder Rift, so I'll consider Lupines very rare and foreign. If someone wants to play a Mystic, we can add them (based on the Dark Dungeons version of the Mystic). But I won't do this unless someone really wants to play a Mystic. There are just three players now and there are eight core classes (one of them being almost mechanically identical to the Mystic) plus the Rakasta (humanoid cats with samurai flavor). Plenty of options of everyone.

I think it will be better for the game flow if I do all the rolls by myself. But I'll consider not doing so if someone has some strong reason against that.

The information I'm providing about the setting is very short (there is still a lot of info to be posted, but also short info). When the game starts, more extensive info will be provided about the region of the Rift where the game starts (but nothing too long). Are you ok with that? I don't thing there's anybody who wants to read long texts about places that may not even appear in the game and I think you guys will have more fun knowing the Rift as you play. But maybe that info is too short. If you guys want, I may post more complete descriptions.

I hope this is the only time I'll make a lot of questions about different things in the same post

Feel free to talk anything about these or other subjects here.

[zebediah]

Which classes are the other players willing to play? I'm thinking of trying the mountebank.

[rremedio]

Which classes are the other players willing to play? I'm thinking of trying the mountebank.

Nobody did show up yet. I'll PM them later. I think a Mountebank would be handy in any party.

[Blackrazor]

I am waiting for the other 2 classes ( Msgic User and Rakasta) to be typed up before I make a decision.

As for ability rolls - roll mine as you suggested and let's see what happens.

[rremedio]

I am waiting for the other 2 classes ( Msgic User and Rakasta) to be typed up before I make a decision.

As for ability rolls - roll mine as you suggested and let's see what happens.

Both classes will be available later today. For the ability rolls, we will wait if the others vote too cause everyone will follow the same rules.

[Blackrazor]

Cool. Sounds like a plan. Looking forward to the info and starting play.

[rremedio]

Ok, the classes are up. If you find any error/inconsistency, please let me know. There are more things I still need to put online before we start playing, but we are almost there.

[rremedio]

I finished the "Overview" topic. You'll get further information while we play.

@zebediah: what's your preference about ability rolls?

[Blackrazor]

This is an idea that I hope you will allow. Could I ran and Elf who also has access to Druid spells. It would be like a Fighter/Druid. I would like a few offensive spells - maybe refluffed MU spells - Magic Missile is Thorn throw, Fireball is ball of bees, web is an entangle spell, hold is captured by roots and vines an held fast.

What do you think?

[rremedio]

This is an idea that I hope you will allow. Could I ran and Elf who also has access to Druid spells. It would be like a Fighter/Druid. I would like a few offensive spells - maybe refluffed MU spells - Magic Missile is Thorn throw, Fireball is ball of bees, web is an entangle spell, hold is captured by roots and vines an held fast.

What do you think?

I don't see why not trying it if you want. In fact, I think an Elf-only spell list in a nice touch. I just need to make a little reasoning before: for instance, a 5th level Elf is able to cast a fireball while a Druid needs to be at 10th level to summon an Insect Plague and a ball of bees would be much alike an Insect Plague that deals great damage.

I will work on my ideas for the spell levels 1 and 2, if you guys like it, we move on with that. Agreed?

[Blackrazor]

Agreed Cool.

[rremedio]

Ok, here is the first draft:

Elf-Only Spells.pdf

Level 1 draft

(184.38 KiB) Downloaded 46 times

Instead of taking spells from the Druid list, I've adapted some spells from AD&D 1e Druids and created two new spells (Elvish Missile based on the Magic Missile and Sleep Touch instead of Sleep, because I think Sleep should be allowed to Magic Users only).

Some missing spells from Druid 1 and Magic User 1 levels might appear at level 2, like Cure Light Wounds and Charm Person. I'll create the level 2 list later (or tomorrow).

[Blackrazor]

Looks good. Some ideas/suggestions -

Drop ventriloquism add resist cold
Or alter ventriloquism to mimic animal sound maybe.

Maybe drop sleep, it's cool but can't see it as a druid / nature spell - maybe some or of fungal spore thing.
Can be used outdoors/ underground only.
Maybe replace sleep with a mass hold vines and roots with outdoor underground limitations and str checks to free plus time limit.

The elvish missile is neat, and fits. Would like to see a thorn missile - or hail of thorns. Damage less, more targets. Again limited to outdoor / underground use.

Maybe add animal partner - a familiar like pet. Pact bond?

Maybe add party or individual buffs - speed of the x, strength of the y, eye of the eagle. Adds utility.

Maybe these buffs are potions and poultices - need ingredients.

A camouflage spell ?

Spirit contact spell - like forest or fey spirits
Get info from them maybe help.

Wild shape - assume animal forms ay higher levels

[rremedio]

Looks good. Some ideas/suggestions -

Drop ventriloquism add resist cold
Or alter ventriloquism to mimic animal sound maybe.

I need to think about it. Ventriloquism was the first spell I thought to keep. Mimic animals sound might be a good idea.

Maybe drop sleep, it's cool but can't see it as a druid / nature spell - maybe some or of fungal spore thing.
Can be used outdoors/ underground only.
Maybe replace sleep with a mass hold vines and roots with outdoor underground limitations and str checks to free plus time limit.

I thought the same about sleep, ended keeping it but I agree is the least "natural" spell. But there are several versions of elves who are maters of mind tricks/effects and have some kind of hypnotic aura around them.

I don't think we need to replace sleep with another spell with similar effect (getting the target unmovable) but I like your ideas for new spells. I think creating matter should be achievable at higher levels, so at lower levels the elf will be able to only influence nature (underground limitations sound nice), leaving the more fancy effects to higher levels.

The elvish missile is neat, and fits. Would like to see a thorn missile - or hail of thorns. Damage less, more targets. Again limited to outdoor / underground use.

Same thing. Here the idea was to have a spell for the elf with fondness for archery and other missile attacks. An attack with multiple thorns would be nice too, maybe at second or third levels.

Maybe add animal partner - a familiar like pet.

With a little creativity you may get a very useful companion with the Animal Friendship spell. There will be another spell for a more familiar animal with stronger bond too, but not at first level.

Maybe add party or individual buffs - speed of the x, strength of the y, eye of the eagle. Adds utility.

Maybe these buffs are potions and poultices - need ingredients.

I have a class based around this idea on my own old setting, I'll think on a spell for that.

A camouflage spell ?

Yes, that's missing. Specially outdoor camouflage.

Spirit contact spell - like forest or fey spirits
Get info from them maybe help.

Yes, that's missing too. I thought about some possible spells about that, but didn't develop them yet.

Thank you for the comments, they will be very useful for the fixing of this list and the creation of further levels.

[rremedio]

Ok, I won't be able to prepare spell descriptions today, but here is the current wip list. There are other spells I'm thinking about, but not sure about the level to put. They deal with turning the environment against the enemy, spirit contact, speaking to animals and plants, etc...I will resume working on this tomorrow.

1st Level Spells
Analize
Animal Friendship
Camouflage - makes the elf "invisible" in the evironment
Detect Magic
Detect Poisonous Animals
Elvish Missile
Invisibility to Animals
Light (R)
Predict Weather
Protection From Evil
Read Languages
Read Magic
Sleep Touch
Ventriloquism

2nd Level Spells
Archersight - extends the range accuracy for missile weapons
Charm Person
Continual Light
Cure Light Wounds (R)
Detect Evil
Detect Invisible
Entangle
ESP (R)
Invisibility
Locate
Obscure
Resist Cold
Spore Cloud - a cloud of spores with bad effects on the target
Web

3rd level Spells
Assume Gaseous Form - similar to the magic potion
Bind Animal Familiar - creates a mental bond between the elf and his animal companion
Clairvoyance
Dispel Magic
Hold Person (R)
Infravision
Levitate
Locate Fey - locates the nearest fey or a particular fey in the area
Obscure
Produce Fire
Resist Fire
Thorn Shower - a shower of strong thorns cast against the target
Warp Wood
Water Breathing

[Blackrazor]

Suggestions :

Call Lightning should be Lvl 3.

Hold person could be environmental and do damage over time maybe even poison with str checks to break free

Drop web- make it a mass entangle spell. A kind of environmental entangle.

I think Locate Fey should be a level 1 or 2 spell.

Climb should be a level 1 spell. Like spider climb but in trees.

Barkskin could be a spell.

Tree meld

Tree teleport or tree dimension door

Looks good regardless

[rremedio]

Suggestions :

Call Lightning should be Lvl 3.

With few exceptions, I'm making druid spells one level higher when cast by elves. Druids don't get spells at first level, so the spell is available to the elf only one character level later, no big difference, but still giving the druid an edge.

Hold person could be environmental and do damage over time maybe even poison with str checks to break free

I'll think on how to rule this.

Drop web- make it a mass entangle spell. A kind of environmental entangle.

I need to think about this as it would probably take the spell to higher level

I think Locate Fey should be a level 1 or 2 spell.

Not with my own reasoning of the spell and the nature of the fey. But I'd like you to explain why do you think that, as this spell level is one of those I'm most unsure about.

Climb should be a level 1 spell. Like spider climb but in trees.

I usually rule that climbing a tree is a simple task for an adventurer, unless he's trying to climb with heavy equipment or if the tree itself is a greater challenge because of its nature. I would rather add a spell which would allow the elf to perform more kinds of impressive manouvers, not only climbing trees.

Barkskin could be a spell.

I really don't like Barkskin. I could add it, but I would have to drop another spell.

Tree meld

I didn't get that. Can you explain what it would do.

Tree teleport or tree dimension door

Yes!

Looks good regardless

Thank you! It won't be perfect, it's mostly a quick and dirty patch.

[Blackrazor]

On the Fey

I would think, being Fey, that learning to talk and work alongside other fey would be a basic skill. Hence the low level. If one can deal with animals ay level one working with fey.... Wait a sec....why not let that be a growing spell - it progresses as one increases level.

Digression...This concept could work for other spells like the hold/ entangle spells.

Back on topic... Level one works with X Fey at Level 2 Y Fey atLevel 3 Z Fey etc.

I won't press hard on this, you know the Fey of your world better than I.

On Tree Meld

Tree Meld - the caster merges into a tree and hides/spies/shelters in there.

On Barkskin

Don't use what you don't like! So it's dead.

Ohh new spell idea. Missile deflect
Like shield
Must be in woods/underground
Vines catch arrows in the air or intercept them
Branches move to take the hit

[rremedio]

On the Fey

I would think, being Fey, that learning to talk and work alongside other fey would be a basic skill. Hence the low level. If one can deal with animals ay level one working with fey.... Wait a sec....why not let that be a growing spell - it progresses as one increases level.

Digression...This concept could work for other spells like the hold/ entangle spells.

Back on topic... Level one works with X Fey at Level 2 Y Fey atLevel 3 Z Fey etc.

I won't press hard on this, you know the Fey of your world better than I.

On Tree Meld

Tree Meld - the caster merges into a tree and hides/spies/shelters in there.

On Barkskin

Don't use what you don't like! So it's dead.

Ohh new spell idea. Missile deflect
Like shield
Must be in woods/underground
Vines catch arrows in the air or intercept them
Branches move to take the hit

Well, this is something that I really would like to do if you guys have nothing against it: almost every elf on the Thunder Rift lives or lived at some point in the Gauntlin Forest. So I think it would make total sense if elves become much more effective in forest environment than in other environments. So we could make these effects like mass entangle, missile deflect and other aids the elf can take from nature available at lower levels, but much less effective when they are not inside a forest.

About Fey: there are Fey in the Gauntlin Forest, but they are very rare. They are much more common in Britchwood, where the nature is very suspicious, even of Elves. That's why is not so easy to the elf to locate them.

Another things I was thinking about relates to the Tree Meld idea. It's more interesting than the spells that turn the caster temporarily into a tree or bush. It is also a Dryad special skill. Maybe a spell of Fey friendship would allow the elf to perform some fey skills (like Dryad tree meld, Faerie gaseous form, Nixie water breathing, etc) a few times a day, increasing with the elf level. Than I would cut spells with similar effects from the list, replacing with other spells and the elf would be able to pursue these powers by making a deal with the Fey and casting the spell.

[Blackrazor]

These location based elf powers can be a bit more powerful because they only work in specific areas - in wooded/vegetated areas and underground where roots can be found. In areas of dense contrustion, areas lacking proper vegetation, or areas deep underground these spells become ineffective.

Elves may have a suite of more mystical/ethereal/sorcerous spells when these fail, but maybe these would be more rare, esoteric, harder to learn or cast.

This is a take on the nature bond druid/forest like elf, opposed to the classic high magic gray elf.

If we decide not to go this route, I am content. I think it adds a bit of depth and some uniqueness to this set of elves. Not essential, but nifty in my humble opinion.