[002] - Out of the Frying Pan

[Faanku]

First of all apologies for taking so long to read through the magic section! I have a good handle on it now.
How would you feel about amalgamating a few of your goals? I was thinking something like:

- Acquire a functional Archanotech Laboratory (+1xp)
- Acquire and study Archanotech (ongoing) (+1xp)
- Create new Archanotech (ongoing) (+1xp)
- Study the Webway Gates of Daphion (+3xp)

Vasquez can appear in the downtime thread for sure, so feel free to propose some extra goals after meeting her.
I have an idea already for your factor in the Mejo offices, they'll definitely be keeping an eye out for potential Archanotech (but not being magically trained themselves it might take some time).

Regarding the Codex
I had been working under the assumption that they were something more narrative to use as a macguffin for magical-themed adventure, or at the most maybe your original grimoire. The two issues I can see with your proposal is that
a) a Research Lab takes up 25tons of cargo space on a ship, meaning it would be far less likely to have been overlooked when the Vale was looted by the Kakimedean government after being impounded, and
b) that the installation costs 25k creds. I feel like a dick for bringing this up after Silas just wrangled a gravcar out of the Neogen deal, but that was after a legendary skill check from Vyrner! Of course, if you're willing to pay the cost then maybe we can sort something out as to why such a huge and obviously special facility wasn't stripped when the Vale was taken.

Regarding your Workshop
The biggest problem I can see with combining the two is that the default Workshop requires Power from the ship to function, which is currently maxed out on the Vale. Playing around with the Mass/Power ratio in a hull is the realm of modding (which Damian is more than capable of) and requires extortionate amounts of money and pretech components. There are other options, such as applying the Specialised Mountings mod to the vale's lasers to free up extra power, but that would cost 50,000c separate to the costs of the installations.
I propose a fitting unique to Damian's magitech nature and specialised for the Vale; the Basic Archanotech Workshop (1 power, 2 mass) 25k cost
You won't be able to fit it right now, but later on when you can afford the extra power it will allow the Basic Archanotech Laboratory to double as a Workshop as you wanted, but 5,000c cheaper and 10 tonnes less weight, to represent the overlap of your fields of study.

Regarding your class
If Damian wants to continue having free pick of the arcanist list, he'll need to swap class to Arcanist. Alternatively he can choose a Magister tradition. If none of them work we can maybe come up with a new tradition for him, but I'm not confident enough in my understanding of the Black Sun rules to balance that. I'll look into it more depending on what you want to do.

What are your thoughts?

[Marullus]

I am fine consolidating Goals - I expected you to do that. Perhaps we can add "Conduct metadimensional research (+1XP)" and then make "Create Archanotech (+3XP)" given the huge amount of resources and time required (example below)?

The Codex was a MacGuffin, which we invested 11 RL months in acquiring and earning 1 XP. I am fine with that. Given that it was already an investment, my proposal was to use it as a justification to increase playability in our pbp format.

My main concern is that the system is designed for downtime to happen each RL week for a tabletop group, but in play-by-post a session averages six RL months. Without some concession, these systems quickly outstrip the realities of PbP timelines - at which point we just drop the goals to create archanotech and instead do research for flavor/XP and acquire things through adventuring only.

viewtopic.php?p=525669#p525669
If we use the optional rules, then I set goals to achieve downtime research, making small gadgets and Codexes for narrative purposes which represent "occult points" building towards larger projects rather than immediate capabilities of their own. When those points build up, then I can spend the oodles of cash and lore to create a magic item - the primary purpose is to regulate the pacing of major item creation attempts over time. I also see the intermediate research goals being a way to engage narratively. The downtime actions are one per IG month and assume the group is given a month of downtime between every game session, and it allows background action concurrently while undertaking longer adeventures. In our play-by-post, we can still replicate a "downtime period" between each adventure with the length being whatever is defined by the GM (doesn't have to be a month). Our first "session" took four IRL months and our second session has taken 11 IRL months - the idea that "once per session" regulates a weekly game doesn't translate well to a requirement here and is likely not necessary.

If we skip the optional rules, we can easily regulate the pacing (find/make a schematic, build some number of parts, attempt assembly of a larger project) by creating a series of IC Goals and working through them. We also can be given leads on new artifacts of interest, acquiring already-built things that he can discover and use rather than trying to manufacture them from scratch. (Making a Staff of the High Gate requires him to be level 9; finding one is worth an adventure!) We could also accept the slower nature of PbP play and allow the creation of a small object between each episode or a large object building over two episodes - we only have 2-3 episodes per real-life year of gameplay already and it doesn't need pacing to slow it down.

There's also a stated requirement for creating a Sanctum (another set of optional rules) as part of having a safe place for archanotech creation. That can be part of what he's doing with his downtime research on the ship, it can be a lost facility they find in an adventure, or it could be the laboratory provided by Isabella Maria Vasquez as she provides wealthy patronage towards her own ends. I think it can be whatever the GM wants to support the story - the optional systems to work incrementally towards these over a series of weekly game sessions being optional in a slower PbP setting.

Example:
Since Damian is the only wizard he knows to exist, he'll only be interacting with the Personal Research rules. The "Artificing and Scribing" rules are twice as expensive, allowing externalize points that can be shared in a group, not more points.
Personal research:

• DC 9 for 1 point, no cost, no catastrophe
• DC 10 for 2 points, 600 credits, 3% catastrophe
• DC 12 for 4 points, 1200 credits, 9% catastrophe

The things he can build are 20-25 points each (Slipsheath, Basic Witchgate), which means 5 to 20 research-months without ever failing a test, and at one research-month per (6 RL month) story chapter , that's 3-10 RL years away in play-by-post realities before he attempts creating his first archanotech item.

Possible courses of action:

• By default, archanotech creation is unplayable here in PbP. Damian can pursue his goal of research (earning XP) purely for color. We then adventure to acquire actual archanotech such as you want it to exist. I can find/fix Witchgates instead of using these rules to invent them, which is good adventure grist and can achieve the "underground spaceway" goal in reasonable adventure-times.
• We can also obviate timelines by having him not generate research points. We can adventure to find stored Research Points and reclaim them, using downtime to attempt to create items only.
• A concession on the Ithilien Codex based on the investment already made can allow research to work in our timelines. If it is mechanically a Research Lab, it gives +2 on the research checks (total of +5, can attempt DC12 to get points 4x faster). The proposal is that unpacking it and using it required understanding the looters didn't have, so they didn't recognize its value and it can unpack in his bedroom on the Vale. It isn't a Grimoire - he specifically is a Magister to not need a Grimoire. It could also just be a repository for X Research Points instead, allowing us to expedite to attempting his first archanotech object creation attempt directly (and this definitely fits within your allowances for his bedroom), but not helping beyond that initial attempt.
• I was concerned that i couldn't research without the laboratory. If we count the Vale as his Sanctum and he's using Personal Research rules, I think he doesn't need a full Archanotech Laboratory until he's ready to actually attempt creation of his first item. If you allow that concession, then it is fine to put acquiring it as a future goal under whatever rules you choose. He can't mod gear without the workshop fitting and he can't create an archanotech item without a laboratory unless you make a concession in that regard; I was worried that would neuter his downtime activities for at least a RL year or two. If he can at least perform Personal Research, that gets him started this downtime cycle while we work towards the next step, which is what I'm hoping for.

If Damian wants to continue having free pick of the arcanist list, he'll need to swap class to Arcanist. Alternatively he can choose a Magister tradition. If none of them work we can maybe come up with a new tradition for him, but I'm not confident enough in my understanding of the Black Sun rules to balance that. I'll look into it more depending on what you want to do.

The choice of Magister is specifically to support the concept that Damian is the only practitioner he knows and re-inventing things for himself. As a Magister he knows only a few things, but he actually KNOWS them in his mind, casting them dynamically at will, and not dependent on a grimoire. That's the flavor I chose it for.

Converting to an Arcanist means (in D&D terms) changing him from a Sorcerer to a Wizard.

• He no longer "knows" his spells, but becomes bound to a book of blueprints (Grimoire) which he has to study every day to temporarily gain access to that day's pre-memorized spells. (That's a huge fundamental change in flavor for the character to me.)
• Instead of having mastery of three first-level spells and casting them five times a day, he will become a generalist knowing seven spells and casting only two per day with pre-memorization. (I will also take Vast Erudition immediately at his next level-up to automatically know all 12 spells) By fifth level, the Magister will still know only the same two second-level spells but the Arcanist will know at least six, or at least ten with vast erudition, with the magister casting 3/day freely and the arcanist pre-memorizing 2/day.
• A Magister can't learn spells except by leveling, while an Arcanist adventures to expand his limitless grimoire. That's a focus change for the story, too - Damian will become a generalist more about recovering the lost knowledge of past ancients and less about his own personal development on his specific idiom. At that point he's a straight-up wizard, he isn't limited to the narrow idiom like he is as a Magister and I don't see him limiting to pure-science approaches, which is a change in game feel.

I don't see the conflict between a Sorcerer and Wizard using the same spell list with different capabilities/limitations. I will respect your call as GM and if you want me to change classes, I will do so. The flavor I wanted was definitely Magister, with a narrow path of learned spells fitting in his dimensional-folding idiom of scientific-magic rather than a generalist wizard with a heavier magical flavor. I would not change Magister idioms - I don't feel a Pacter, Rectifier, or War Mage fit our campaign or the character.

Just let me know.

[Enoch]

Later that evening, Vyrner stuffs a potsticker in his mouth, chews, and sets the chopsticks down to muffle a burp with his fist. "Nice place you picked, Silas. Thanks for dinner."

He wipes his mouth with his napkin and sets it on the table in front of him. "So I guess we've got a couple of things to discuss.

"First, Mister Bao- or his assistant, more likely- reached out again to ask that we choose a name for our new concern and inform him as soon as possible. Something about signage and branding, and of course the contracts with whomever they hire as our factor. So if anybody has any ideas on that front, please speak up.

"Secondly, and in my mind more importantly, we need to decide where were going next. Hauling 'product' for The Flowerbed is always an option, but we can only fit so much into the little nooks and such as are likely to be overlooked by customs. It won't fill our hold. I haven't logged onto the trading hub here on Mejo yet, but the data mining the ship's computer has done so far has indicated that our highest profit might be shipping military goods to Kakimedes, if any are available. Might be a useful way to help MES folks there defend themselves, too. Dangerous, though, and Mejoian cultural goods will probably sell well pretty much anywhere.

"Thoughts?"

[Faanku]

Just let me know.

Regarding your goals, that's fine. We'll go with that.

You raise a good point about pbp vs IRL play timeframes. I don't want to rule out archanotech creation because it's clearly hugely thematical and something you want to do, but at the same time I don't want to inadvertently break the game by making is vastly easier to obtain. I think allowing the Codex to become a Research Lab could work, though at 25 tonnes it would be more of an installation than something he'd open in his room. Alternatively we can count them as his Library, lost now found, with 30 RP already banked and ready to use (going by the recommended 5*level per level suggestion). I'd prefer this second option myself, but I will let you argue either one.
You are correct that the Archanotech Laboratory is unneeded until later on in his career; just having access to his Library aka the Codex is enough to perform personal research.

The only issue I saw with Damian's class as it stands is that he is a Magister with every spell in the game in his tradition; every other Magister class has a much more narrow and focused selection of spells to chose from when they level. I was concerned about balance is all, but now that I've thought about it a little we can continue on with how things are.

Since Damian is the only wizard he knows to exist

This is interesting, because I had taken Melanth to be rich in mages, or at the very least home to a cabal that Damian was part of before leaving. If not I've massively misunderstood your origin!

Also regarding grimoires:

[Marullus]

(Duplicate post erased)

[Marullus]

Thanks.

The Codex being 30 RP stored is great.

His background is below. I was appealing to an ultra-rare-magic start point - I posited that his Melanth order were custodians/librarians who no longer understood their contents fully and Damian is arrogant because to his knowledge he is unique in deciphering and applying the secrets as a prodigy. (Whether that is true is totally up to you, even if he believes it up to now.) Sorry I was unclear! That underpins a lot of his role play - let me know if you want to change it.

Damian is from a secretive cult on Melanth, a techno-monastary where the knowledge of scientific theory and theoretical physics was religiously protected and practically worshipped. So much of the ancient texts remain truly undeciphered (and that technology out of reach, thought they dream of star gates once more), but those who study the ancient ways know that what is called magic and what is called science are one and the same - magic is just the word unsophisticated minds use for what they can't truly comprehend. Damian is gifted with a mind for formulae, studying not only knowable technologies but the yet-unknown mysteries of energy-matter transfer, brainwave harmonics, void/entropy mnipulation, and the harmonics and plutonic forms needed to trigger them. Frustrated by the gaps in his monastary's crumbling texts and overly-certain of his own capabilities, Damian manipulated his way onto a smuggling ship and got out into the universe. Happy to be seen as a simple mechanic by those he looks down on as 'ordinaries,' he found work and spent a few years plying the space lanes and he has a knack for making friends in many ports. He eventually ended up on Odo's crew, until they fell afoul of the recent revolution and escaped without their ship. Goal: To discover pre-tech truths; no others could understand them.

Grimoires: Magisters only really need their grimoire to change spells, which takes 2-4 weeks of downtime per spell adjusted, not to daily refresh or memorize. I will put the other references below. (I see your concern about picking freely as unbalanced - I never considered changing spells. If you want to formally restrict that he can't exchange spells, I think that is fair in exchange for allowing the Arcanist spell list.)

Magisters can master only a limited number of spells from their list, depending on their character level, but they can choose these spells freely from their class spell list, and do not require a grimoire or a spell copy to learn them. Magisters can cast any spell they’ve mastered until they run out of available spells per day for that spell level. Unlike Arcanists, however, it is very difficult and time-consuming for Magisters to change the spells they have prepared for casting.
...
A Magister’s expended spell slots are automatically refreshed when they awaken. They can cast normally on rising without taking any extra time to prepare, though many traditions might have minor rituals or propitiations that are customarily performed shortly after they wake up.
An Arcanist must spend half an hour studying their grimoire and harmonizing with the desired spell energy patterns to prepare their spells.
...
Magisters who wish to exchange a spell they know for a different spell of the same level have a difficult time doing so. A Magister must have at least Know Magic-0 skill to exchange spells at all, and it takes one month to exchange a mastered spell for a different spell of the same level from the Magister’s class list. For each level of Know Magic skill above level-0, subtract one week from this time, down to a minimum of one week. Thus, a Magister with Know Magic-2 skill could swap out a spell in two weeks. Exchanging spell choices is too distracting to perform any other magical work at
the same time, such as the research work described in the Arcane Research and Development section, but it doesn’t interfere with adventuring or other intermittent activities.

If you want him to have a formal Grimoire, counting the Ithilien Codex as the Grimoire makes sense in our story so far. (Or I could have a different 1 encumberance dataslab encoded with Melanth library holdings - but I do think it makes sense that he'd keep it hidden and not on him with the above rules.)

[Marullus]

Later that evening, Vyrner stuffs a potsticker in his mouth, chews, and sets the chopsticks down to muffle a burp with his fist. "Nice place you picked, Silas. Thanks for dinner."

He wipes his mouth with his napkin and sets it on the table in front of him. "So I guess we've got a couple of things to discuss.

"First, Mister Bao- or his assistant, more likely- reached out again to ask that we choose a name for our new concern and inform him as soon as possible. Something about signage and branding, and of course the contracts with whomever they hire as our factor. So if anybody has any ideas on that front, please speak up.

"Secondly, and in my mind more importantly, we need to decide where were going next. Hauling 'product' for The Flowerbed is always an option, but we can only fit so much into the little nooks and such as are likely to be overlooked by customs. It won't fill our hold. I haven't logged onto the trading hub here on Mejo yet, but the data mining the ship's computer has done so far has indicated that our highest profit might be shipping military goods to Kakimedes, if any are available. Might be a useful way to help MES folks there defend themselves, too. Dangerous, though, and Mejoian cultural goods will probably sell well pretty much anywhere.

"Thoughts?"

"I need to check in with our other benefactor," says Damian, slurping a long pan-fried noodle and referring to Ms. Vasquez. "...before her interest passes and along with it, opportunity. That and curiosity to the Queen's court on Daphion."

...
Having said that, he reaches out the next day to Maria Vasquez. (How is he supposed to do so? Visit an address?)

[Enoch]

Odo stands, wiping the corners of his mouth with his napkin before discarding it next to his soup. "Well, gentlemen, we've got a lot of work ahead of us. Silas, thank you for this dinner.
I'm going to hit up the market terminals and see what cargo is available. That might help us make a decision on next steps."

He proceeds to do just that, heading to the nearest large market and discussing what cargos are available and searching for deals.

I'd like to roll on the Trading Table to see what's available:
Trade Table: [1d10]=6[1d10]=3

[eirei]

"Think nothing of it. Here's to a successful business venture!"
Silas opens up another bottle of baiju and raises a toast before Odo leaves to gather information.

Several minutes of silence and one bottle later, he turns to the others and stammers out:
"Wh-who knew coming up with a name was so tough, huh? You guys got any good ideas? I'm fine with whatever. Just... just tell me where to sign."

How much does our lavish dinner of instant synthnoodles and fine liquor cost?

[Enoch]

Vyrner retires to a small alcove in the merchant district and pulls out his datapad, linking the commodities information he's found. He also includes a table of calculations he has the pad perform and a note: What do you all think? We have room enough to ship two tons of...unique goods from The Flowerbed discreetly, and they would sell well on Paavis. Or we could pick up a couple of units of medicinals and take them to Kakimides. All legal, but you all know what sort of trouble we might run into there. Could also start setting up a pipeline to help our friends there, though.

We'll also need to decide how much of our funds we want to invest in this. We can afford up to four tons of pharmaceuticals, but that takes all our available cash. I've got a good feeling about this, though- I think I'm on the verge of a really good deal.

[Marullus]

Damian Stavros (HP: 9/9, AC: 14, Spells: 1st: 5/5, 2nd: 2/2)

Vyrner types in the encrypted messaging app that Damian installed for him, waiting for a response. Damian has been on-board the ship since the meeting with Skunk, closed in his quarters and deep into whatever experiments he's doing. It takes several minutes for the a response to come back. "Both work. Paavis potential pipeline end. Allies for Kak? Ask Romer. Good job, Odo. Make the money." His status then changes to "Busy" with a red dot.

[greyarea]

Romer perks up. The run to Kakamedes could be good. Do you know who the receiver is?

[Enoch]

A message pings on everyone's device: No buyer on the other end yet- purely speculative

A moment later, another one is appended to it: But Kaki is a seller's market, and maybe we can help push back HF