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ragnboneshopper
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Re: OOC

#241 Post by ragnboneshopper »

Welcome, Norjax! How is this wall of text for a hello? But seriously, this is a fun game, and just so you know, I'm in Vargr's game too, which I love for different reasons than I love DCC. Anyway, hope you enjoy.

Aquebman, you nailed it on the differences between 3-4e and DCC concerning feats. And yes, it's a very swingy and potentially gonzo game where anything can happen. If you like Vance or enjoy any of the other appendix N authors (outside of Tolkien), this system plays that way when it gets going.

Re: Initiative -- I totally agree with you on this, Vargr. Though I don't give a crap about the lucky roll and its application to weapon of choice thing. I mean, what's the point of having a Luck stat if there isn't both bad and good luck, right? Is weapon of choice a poor name? Sure, but it's the spirit of the thing and not the name that counts. Besides, if you haven't read through the DCC rulebook, I think you might be missing the ironic tone to a lot of these. It's a treat. I haven't had a reaction to popping open a rulebook like I did with DCC since I surreptitiously bought my first books from the local gamestore and smuggled them into my demon-fearing house at age 16, convinced that I'd acquired the greatest thing since sliced bread. (Yep, my rulebooks went right under the mattress with the girlie mags... :P )

All that said, d20 initiative doesn't float my boat, pbp or ftf. I find it to be the single biggest (and most disabling) difference between old school and new school gaming. D20 initiative tends to turn a party of individuals working together into a bunch of individuals playing Monopoly (you know how boring that gets after the third time round the board; and like Monoploy, the game can devolve into something like two people trying to steal the show from one another while everyone else watches a movie and eats doritos).

I would say that just about every other game mechanic builds off of this one decision. The beauty of DCC, to me, is that you can easily change this decision because the game is so rules light (try it with 4e if you ever want a migraine). My very first DCC houserule was to banish d20 initiative and go with d6 side-at-a-time straight from OD&D and Basic (more or less -- I prefer low roll goes first, which might be in Holmes if I remember). When necessary because of characters caught up in different corners of a combat, during those times it really matters who is doing what and when, I break out individual d6 initiative with mods to heighten the tension. All actions are declared before initiative is rolled.

So if you can't tell, I would put this one up for a vote because I think it would make the game run much more smoothly. Not only will it speed things up in the pbp format, it actually fits the DCC philosophy of the luck of the die much better than d20 init., imo. It's way easier to make two or three rolls for initiative (assuming you run it side at a time, or a couple more rolls than that during the funnel), decide who goes first, second, third, and then forget the darn initiative rolls to focus instead on action resolution, with no numbers to remember from round to round. It's so much more difficult to rememberr and track who goes when from round to round than it is to just roll the damn initiative dice again every round. It makes for anticipation as a party, and like Vargr says, it swings the tide of battle and keeps uncertainty and tension high. If you want to do individual initiative and add casting times, it's a simple fix to say a spell takes X segments to cast, where X is the spell level. Or you can stick with side at a time and go with the simple missiles, magic, movement, melee order of combat. Don't even have to worry about characters with multiple attacks because DCC has that covered with action dice. 8-)

Anywho, you be nice to poor Thurinor, now, Vargr. No retribution rolls! :shock: :lol:

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Re: OOC

#242 Post by AQuebman »

I am lightly familiar with D6 for initiative in a FtF game it was just lowest goes first and it was done a side at a time. I have a few small fears/questions with this system.

A.) I don't know how this speeds things up because I still need actions from everyone on each side to realistically move forward. Due to that I don't know that I understand how things would move faster then they already do now

B.) Are you referring to whole group initiative because then that really defeats the purpose of initiative and the bonus to initiative that certain classes get. I'm all for simplification that folks like but I worry as Vargr is with his weapon bonus that this will hamper classes that get this as a class bonus or happen to have a higher agility then most.

C.) Is there something in the way that I present or do initiative that could be part of the problem? I don't have much of a problem with it but if it feels like clutter or it's something I could clean up to make it better that is a simple and easy solution.

If we can use the system you propose and still not lose the purpose of initiative bonuses within DCC i'd be open to trying it. The only game I play in where we do non d20 initiative is in Hedge's game but we roll D10's individually with lowest going first which is pretty much the exact same system as D20 but without an initiative modifier.


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Re: OOC

#244 Post by Vargr1105 »

ragnboneshopper wrote:Re: Initiative -- I totally agree with you on this, Vargr.


Oh My Lord! I am not a lone voice in the wilderness anymore. :) And ragnboneshopper perfectly laid out what I was going to say before I did.
ragnboneshopper wrote:Anywho, you be nice to poor Thurinor, now, Vargr. No retribution rolls! :shock: :lol:
LoL! :mrgreen:

AQuebman wrote:A.) I don't know how this speeds things up because I still need actions from everyone on each side to realistically move forward. Due to that I don't know that I understand how things would move faster then they already do now
Because players can just post what their intended actions are as soon as a round starts, without having to worry about the N people before them in the D20 initiative sequence doing it first.

It also allows a player to decide what he'd like to do faster and easier because he doesn't need to cogitate:

"Ok, #1 is doing A, #2 is doing B, 3# is doing C, so taking all that into consideration, I who am #4 will be doing D."

Of course, if people post their actions first and then D20 initiative is still rolled normally by the GM the effect will be quite similar. It will certainly be faster than the "declare in order of Ini" we have been using thus far.

Also, if a player get tardy in posting his action, unlike what happens now, that will not be an impediment for players with lower initiative to post theirs.

And lastly, as you will see below there is a slight incentive to post combat declarations ASAP, as it may mean you get to act first when you are not the only PC attempting the exact same action you declared.
AQuebman wrote:B.) Are you referring to whole group initiative because then that really defeats the purpose of initiative and the bonus to initiative that certain classes get. I'm all for simplification that folks like but I worry as Vargr is with his weapon bonus that this will hamper classes that get this as a class bonus or happen to have a higher agility then most.
Then just use those bonuses as individual modifiers to the group Ini roll. We'd still have to go with a D20 for initiative though, otherwise the scale gets off the charts. A +1 or +2 bonus is waaay more significant in 1-6 scale than a 1-20 one.
AQuebman wrote:C.) Is there something in the way that I present or do initiative that could be part of the problem?


Yeah, not posting the initiative rostrum on each round post means we sometimes have to scroll up the thread to remember what our sequence is. I am also not too keen about said rostrum being in a spoiler box.
AQuebman wrote:If we can use the system you propose and still not lose the purpose of initiative bonuses within DCC i'd be open to trying it.


I think the best solution would be keep using D20's for initiative but have it be Group Ini, and apply the normal DCC individual modifiers. The GM rolls initiative for both sides each round after everyone has declared.

I would not mess with spellcasting and Ini unless there is already something in the DCC system about that...but I would rule that someone who is spellcasting and is hurt before his initiative segment comes gets the spell interrupted.


As for ties in initiative between people in opposite sides, just let them be simultaneous. They will be rare enough.

For folks on the same side who have equal initiative, this does not mean simultaneous action. What I do personally is let action progress in the order it was posted, accounting for common sense.

For example: Two PCs with the same Ini, the same movement rate, the same weapon and at similar distance to a target both declared declared they would move and attack him. The player that posted intent first on the thread gets there and attacks just before the other.

Now, If one of the PCs had been using a spear, and the other a shortsword, the guy with the spear would attack first even if he declared after the other...because he won't have to walk as much to get sufficiently near to the target to spear him, that the dude with the shortshord to knife him.


In fact, from personal experience I can tell you simultaneous Ini among PCs isn't an issue at all unless they are trying do to the exact same thing (attack the same foe, get to the same door, etc). Apart from that it doesn't really matter. If there are 5 PCs engaged in individual duels with 5 different foes, they may all have the same Ini and it doesn't make a difference.

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Re: OOC

#245 Post by NJWilliam »

I have to say that I love the d6 old school initiative. Especially the change to initiative each round, it makes everything much more dynamic.
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Re: OOC

#246 Post by hedgeknight »

Since there has been so much discussion about luck, I'll just say this:
"Only the lucky ones get to steal the show. Only the lucky ones really get to know." :ugeek:
I was never a fan of d20 initiative > the only rolls I want to make with a d20 are attack and saves (and maybe an occasional ability check). I like using a d6 or for 2E a d10. And do we have to wait until it is our initiative to declare actions? I haven't been doing that. :?

Oh, and hey Norjax > welcome to the ziggurat party!
Winter is coming...

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Re: OOC

#247 Post by Norjax »

hedgeknight wrote:Oh, and hey Norjax > welcome to the ziggurat party!
Thanks, we'll see how long my first character last! :P
ragnboneshopper wrote:Welcome, Norjax! How is this wall of text for a hello?
EDIT: Thank you. I just saw this now after reading "the wall"!

A DM introduced me to individual initiative back when 2e first came out. His version had everyone roll 1d10 (10 segments per round) to indicate which segment their action took place. You would subtract any DEX bonus and add spell casting time (which could carry over to the next round). Fighters with two attacks per round would roll two dice. Each monster had a d10 roll as well. This made for interesting combat, with spell interruptions and simultaneous attacks (sometimes the first would kill the opponent, making the second redundant). You could also make tactical decisions by trying to kill a monster before the death blow was dealt to a comrade.

I've used this with several FtF groups and everyone seemed satisfied with the mechanics. We always used miniatures and a battle map, so this helped visualize the action.
Last edited by Norjax on Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OOC

#248 Post by Vargr1105 »

AQuebman wrote:If you want to take the table and give bad names to go along with the good go for it. I'll post it on the DCC forums and gladly give you credit for it.
Here you go:


Harsh Winter / Autumn's Lassitude

The Bull / The Sheep

Fortunate date / Dragon Lady

Raised by Wolves / Pacifist Parents

Concieved on Horseback / Scent of the Elephant

Born on the Battlefield / Born Under the Dove

Path of the Bear / Hands of Softness

Hawkeye / Miopic

Pack Hunter / The Omega

Born under the loom / Child of Truancy

Fox's Cunning / Cursed by Gnomes

Four-leafed clover / Cursed by Elves

Seventh Son / Anti-Psychic

The Raging Storm / The Windless Plain

Righteous heart / Son of the Apostate

Survived the Plague / The Runt

Lucky Sign / Child of a Lesser God

Guardian Angel / Devil Hounded

Survived a spider bite / Afflicted by Allergies

Struck by Lightning / The Snail's Birthmark

Lived through famine / Never one day hungry

Resisted Temptation / Lost virginity to a Whore

Charmed house / Accursed lineage

Speed of the cobra / Slowness of the Sloth

Bountiful harvest / Sign of the Locust

Warrior's Arm / Hands of the Coward

Unholy house / Tragically Innocent

The Broken Star / Loathed by Fate

Birdsong / Tongue-tied

Wild Child / The Geek

AQuebman wrote:If the group as a whole is up for a change to this warrior ability to make it a static +1 if your luck is below that i'd be okay with that as long as we kept luck working as expected in all other manners for fumbles etc... I agree it feels weird that the favored weapon has a negative I am more arguing above that one bad score isn't going to kill you even if we play it RaW.
You heard the man folks! Let's vote.

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Re: OOC

#249 Post by AQuebman »

Awesome Vargr ill post it on the dcc forums and toss you the credit. Ill put up a voting post tonight up for a week or so for the warrior weapon thing. The init thing I wrote a long reply with more questions but the site croaked and I had to save it to a word doc. Ill post that later and if I think it will work I may put that up for a vote as well.

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Re: OOC

#250 Post by AQuebman »

I game with a group who hate all rules mechanics pre 3e so they like DCC but segments and weapon speeds etc.. get pained groans. Cant say I blame them but to we youngsters it feels crunchy like capn crunch scraping the roof of your mouth lol. That being said im open to being enlightened.

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Re: OOC

#251 Post by AQuebman »

Vargr1105 wrote:
AQuebman wrote:A.) I don't know how this speeds things up because I still need actions from everyone on each side to realistically move forward. Due to that I don't know that I understand how things would move faster then they already do now
Because players can just post what their intended actions are as soon as a round starts, without having to worry about the N people before them in the D20 initiative sequence doing it first.

It also allows a player to decide what he'd like to do faster and easier because he doesn't need to cogitate:

"Ok, #1 is doing A, #2 is doing B, 3# is doing C, so taking all that into consideration, I who am #4 will be doing D."

Of course, if people post their actions first and then D20 initiative is still rolled normally by the GM the effect will be quite similar. It will certainly be faster than the "declare in order of Ini" we have been using thus far.

Also, if a player get tardy in posting his action, unlike what happens now, that will not be an impediment for players with lower initiative to post theirs.

And lastly, as you will see below there is a slight incentive to post combat declarations ASAP, as it may mean you get to act first when you are not the only PC attempting the exact same action you declared.
Well right now I don't discourage posting ahead of others so I feel like were already doing that aspect. As far as simultaneous actions i'm okay with letting that occur as well but i'd probably base it off of luck since DCC doesn't get into one weapon over another junk that makes it messy to figure out on the fly imo. From playing in Hedge's game I don't know I see much of a difference it's either a D10 or a D20 for everyone but beyond that we all still declare actions and wait on the party to declare what they are doing. Am I missing something that D20 does differently other than roll a different die with a modifier? I want to implement things you guys like but I feel like i'm missing the boat or wearing the dunce cap lol
AQuebman wrote:B.) Are you referring to whole group initiative because then that really defeats the purpose of initiative and the bonus to initiative that certain classes get. I'm all for simplification that folks like but I worry as Vargr is with his weapon bonus that this will hamper classes that get this as a class bonus or happen to have a higher agility then most.
Vargr1105 wrote:Then just use those bonuses as individual modifiers to the group Ini roll. We'd still have to go with a D20 for initiative though, otherwise the scale gets off the charts. A +1 or +2 bonus is waaay more significant in 1-6 scale than a 1-20 one.


So are you saying just add everyone's mods together for the one group initiative roll and do the same for the enemies? Then just take actions as they are posted for combat to represent order and encourage quick posting? Also in your idea is that rinsed and repeated every round or only done once?
AQuebman wrote:C.) Is there something in the way that I present or do initiative that could be part of the problem?

Vargr1105 wrote:Yeah, not posting the initiative rostrum on each round post means we sometimes have to scroll up the thread to remember what our sequence is. I am also not too keen about said rostrum being in a spoiler box.


I've been trying to post the initiative every time I just thought it might be cleaner with a spoiler box. If that wasn't preferred I can certainly remove the spoiler and just keep it out in the open.
AQuebman wrote:If we can use the system you propose and still not lose the purpose of initiative bonuses within DCC i'd be open to trying it.

Vargr1105 wrote:I think the best solution would be keep using D20's for initiative but have it be Group Ini, and apply the normal DCC individual modifiers. The GM rolls initiative for both sides each round after everyone has declared.

I would not mess with spellcasting and Ini unless there is already something in the DCC system about that...but I would rule that someone who is spellcasting and is hurt before his initiative segment comes gets the spell interrupted.

As for ties in initiative between people in opposite sides, just let them be simultaneous. They will be rare enough.

For folks on the same side who have equal initiative, this does not mean simultaneous action. What I do personally is let action progress in the order it was posted, accounting for common sense.

For example: Two PCs with the same Ini, the same movement rate, the same weapon and at similar distance to a target both declared declared they would move and attack him. The player that posted intent first on the thread gets there and attacks just before the other.

Now, If one of the PCs had been using a spear, and the other a shortsword, the guy with the spear would attack first even if he declared after the other...because he won't have to walk as much to get sufficiently near to the target to spear him, that the dude with the shortshord to knife him.


In fact, from personal experience I can tell you simultaneous Ini among PCs isn't an issue at all unless they are trying do to the exact same thing (attack the same foe, get to the same door, etc). Apart from that it doesn't really matter. If there are 5 PCs engaged in individual duels with 5 different foes, they may all have the same Ini and it doesn't make a difference.
Again simultaneous initiative i'll probably decide based on luck rather than a lot of other factors. Is that realistic, probably not but it's a simple and easy method for me to decide how things will occur. I listed the concentration rule for wizards below. It's just a saving throw if something interrupts you so initiative and segments don't really come into it. The only area i'm concerned about are spell duels because it's strongly built into the initiative system. I listed those rules in relation to how they effect initiative below. There is more to the intricacies of running one but that will show where initiative becomes important and it's more about who goes first and who goes last then anything which I suppose if it's enemy vs PC it's based on the group roll.

Concentration: Some spells require concentration. While
concentrating, a wizard or cleric can take no action beyond
walking at half speed. Combat damage, a fall, or other significant
interruptions require the spellcaster to make a Will
save against DC 11 or lose concentration



Spell Duels:
A wizard seeks superiority over his fellows and attains that through demonstration of magical ability…at any cost. When two wizards meet, there is always conflict; and when wizards conflict, there are spell duels. A clap of thunder, the smell of brimstone, the staggering concussion of contested dominance, and, finally, the pile of ash where once a man stood – these are the marks of a spell duel.
  • Spell duel resolution: A spell duel is where one spellcaster casts a spell that is countered by a second caster, and the two proceed to throw spells until one dominates. These are the basic rules of spell duels. Full details are described below.
  • 1. Both wizards and clerics can spell duel. A wizard can counter the spells of a cleric and vice versa. In rare circumstances, other classes can also spell duel (e.g., a thief reading from scrolls).
  • 2. Spell duels are a special rule subsystem that breaks some standard combat mechanics, specifically parts of the initiative system. Casters involved in a spell duel may find themselves acting in response to each other prior to actions by other party members.
  • 3. Only some spells can be used to counter each other. Generally speaking, there are two kinds of counterspells: “same spell” (i.e., fireball used to counter fireball) and “defensive” (i.e., magic shield used to counter magic missile or fire resistance used to counter fireball).
  • 4. Spell duels proceed in initiative order. A wizard later in the initiative order may counterspell the spell cast by a wizard who went before him. A caster who is last in the order cannot have his spells countered.
  • 5. Counterspell mechanics involve the comparison of the attacker’s spell check to the defender’s spell check and a resolution based on that comparison.
  • 6. Successes build and failures compound in a spell duel. A wizard who wins a few counterspells will find himself building momentum.
  • 7. Finally, untoward things can occur in a spell duel. It is, after all, a direct collision of unearthly energies.
  • Initiative: When one wizard or cleric casts a spell, a wizard or cleric later in the initiative order may immediately declare he is counter-spelling. If multiple casters attempt a counterspell, the outcome is resolved in initiative order. The combat round immediately pauses for resolution of the spellcaster actions. When each spellcaster has completed his action, combat initiative resumes.
  • The spellcasters effectively “skip ahead” strictly for purposes of counterspelling, and then lose their normal initiative action.
  • However, the spellcasters remain in their same initiative order. On the next round they may choose to act normally, and thus initiative order must be maintained.
  • When a spellcaster chooses to counterspell, he may cast a counterspell and that is all. He may not take any other action that round. The counterspell action lets him skip ahead in order but limits his options.
  • The spellcaster who is last in initiative order has the advantage of being able to counterspell anyone before him and the disadvantage of only being able to respond to spells, not initiate the spell duel. The spellcaster who is first in initiative order has the advantage of setting the tone for the spell duel by choosing the initiating spell, but he cannot counterspell.

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Re: OOC

#252 Post by ragnboneshopper »

Wow, you're all awesome! This is a great discussion, very enlightening!

Great list Vargr, I'm stealing it! You may have just unwittingly written yourself into DCC lore for all time. ;) My vote is to keep the possibility of negative luck scores applying to weapon of choice but use this list to name it what it is (and all the other lucky rolls too)...

Where else to begin? Rather than echo all the things that I agree with and nitpick the very very few that I don't, I'll just weigh in on the spell duel issue connected to rolling initiative every round, which I honestly hadn't thought about, but it's definitely something to think through before making a switch here on pbp. I've yet to run a spell duel in DCC, but I don't see how changing the initiative system would change things at heart, since a spell duel effectively takes the involved spellcasters out of the regular initiative sequence for that round. If you're using group d6 or d10 initiative rolls with agility mods, then you know which spellcaster goes first and which caster(s) have the possibility to counterspell and start the duel. No problem there.

Practically speaking, for a pbp game, the main challenge is breaking out of the usual order of resolution to confirm and run the duel. I think what I would do is have casters only be able to counterspell if they were already planning to cast that round, or to even declare that their action is to counterspell other casters if the opportunity arises. So a given declaration might read as follows:
Hiram is going to cast his magic missile this round, unless he loses initiative, in which case he'll wait to see what that shaman-looking orc is doing and counterspell him if it looks like he's casting.
In other words, allow players of spellcasters to give an either/or declaration when they are spellcasting, or to declare their openness to counterspelling should the opportunity arise. If they make that counterspelling or that either/or declaration, then they get to counterspell if it's possible. At this point, the judge resolves the combat round up to the point that the potential spell duel happens and then alerts the player(s) (maybe already having done so by PM to speed things up but could just be on the regular thread) that a counterspell situation has come up and asks what they want to do, and so on, playing out the spell duel just like at the table. When the duel is over, the judge can resume the rest of the round's resolution. If no counterspell situation occurs, then the judge still has the other declared action (the magic missile in this case) by which to resolve the round as usual. The player has not wasted a round this way, and the game has not been unnecessarily slowed down.

What do you think? From my experience thus far as a pbp player, this kind of either/or action declaration, which may be frowned upon a bit in a ftf game, helps a pbp game go smoothly, even without spell duel situations.

Might I just add this: using a round by round initiative system, it's conceivable for a spell duel to pick up round after round and to swing back and forth a lot more than with the standard d20 running initiative in which the spellcaster with the higher initiative roll is going to set the tone for the entire combat. This could make spell duels more chaotic and swingy, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing! :mrgreen:

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Re: OOC

#253 Post by ragnboneshopper »

AQuebman wrote:I game with a group who hate all rules mechanics pre 3e so they like DCC but segments and weapon speeds etc.. get pained groans. Cant say I blame them but to we youngsters it feels crunchy like capn crunch scraping the roof of your mouth lol. That being said im open to being enlightened.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think most AD&D games actually worry about weapon speed at all. Maybe if it's needed to decide who goes first, and even then I think most people use weapon reach to decide simultaneous attacks, based on the set to receive a charge rule. I'm in a game on Dragonsfoot where the DM uses a modified and much simpler version of weapon speed, and that's seriously the first time weapon speed has made sense to me -- the first time I've even seen it in action on a regular basis.

And his system is really awesome, actually, because it lets you pile on extra things you want to do in a round (within reason) but each one costs initiative. I was in a situation where my cleric was flying a magic carpet with a gargoyle harassing, an NPC fighter almost dead also riding along and guarding my back, and our halfling thief unconscious at my feet, just trying to get away from this gargoyle. I pointed the carpet in a direction and attempted a CLW to heal the fighter while we flew, but the goyle won initiative and killed her before my number came up. So rather than let the spell die, I managed to heal the halfling instead. He stood up, took the fighter's dagger, and killed the goyle with it on the next round before the thing could maul him again. Some very tense moments that no one really planned, but it just happened that way due to declaring actions and hoping for the best with initiative rolls... :D

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Re: OOC

#254 Post by AQuebman »

ragnboneshopper wrote:Wow, you're all awesome! This is a great discussion, very enlightening!

Great list Vargr, I'm stealing it! You may have just unwittingly written yourself into DCC lore for all time. ;) My vote is to keep the possibility of negative luck scores applying to weapon of choice but use this list to name it what it is (and all the other lucky rolls too)...

Where else to begin? Rather than echo all the things that I agree with and nitpick the very very few that I don't, I'll just weigh in on the spell duel issue connected to rolling initiative every round, which I honestly hadn't thought about, but it's definitely something to think through before making a switch here on pbp. I've yet to run a spell duel in DCC, but I don't see how changing the initiative system would change things at heart, since a spell duel effectively takes the involved spellcasters out of the regular initiative sequence for that round. If you're using group d6 or d10 initiative rolls with agility mods, then you know which spellcaster goes first and which caster(s) have the possibility to counterspell and start the duel. No problem there.

Practically speaking, for a pbp game, the main challenge is breaking out of the usual order of resolution to confirm and run the duel. I think what I would do is have casters only be able to counterspell if they were already planning to cast that round, or to even declare that their action is to counterspell other casters if the opportunity arises. So a given declaration might read as follows:
Hiram is going to cast his magic missile this round, unless he loses initiative, in which case he'll wait to see what that shaman-looking orc is doing and counterspell him if it looks like he's casting.
In other words, allow players of spellcasters to give an either/or declaration when they are spellcasting, or to declare their openness to counterspelling should the opportunity arise. If they make that counterspelling or that either/or declaration, then they get to counterspell if it's possible. At this point, the judge resolves the combat round up to the point that the potential spell duel happens and then alerts the player(s) (maybe already having done so by PM to speed things up but could just be on the regular thread) that a counterspell situation has come up and asks what they want to do, and so on, playing out the spell duel just like at the table. When the duel is over, the judge can resume the rest of the round's resolution. If no counterspell situation occurs, then the judge still has the other declared action (the magic missile in this case) by which to resolve the round as usual. The player has not wasted a round this way, and the game has not been unnecessarily slowed down.

What do you think? From my experience thus far as a pbp player, this kind of either/or action declaration, which may be frowned upon a bit in a ftf game, helps a pbp game go smoothly, even without spell duel situations.

Might I just add this: using a round by round initiative system, it's conceivable for a spell duel to pick up round after round and to swing back and forth a lot more than with the standard d20 running initiative in which the spellcaster with the higher initiative roll is going to set the tone for the entire combat. This could make spell duels more chaotic and swingy, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing! :mrgreen:

Well and they do last beyond one round they ebb and flow back and forth but it fits with the traditional initiative because it's the one advantage of the later going wizard to decide he wants to counter a spell. I will agree though that I think the best solution is to require wizards to state they will try to counter spell if they have a spell to do so that way we can keep things pressing forward. It's not a problem for the moment but it may come up in future encounters etc.. and I appreciate the insight.


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AQuebman
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Re: OOC

#256 Post by AQuebman »

BTW below is the link to the post I made on the DCC forums with your work Vargr. Also be careful I do occasionally post on there with spoilers and questions in relation to this campaign. I try to spoiler them up but not always ;)

http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... 74&t=44709

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Re: OOC

#257 Post by Vargr1105 »

ragnboneshopper wrote:Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think most AD&D games actually worry about weapon speed at all. Maybe if it's needed to decide who goes first, and even then I think most people use weapon reach to decide simultaneous attacks, based on the set to receive a charge rule.
Except for AD&D2nd, where weapon speed is an integral part of the initiative system (and don't ask me how it works because I don't know), WS is only used to resolve Initiative ties in melee. In AD&D Weapon Speed is weapon length. OSRIC just called it weapon length and did away with the numerical value, I do not know why. It is easier to have a numerical weapon speed scale than debate weather a Spontoon is longer or shorter than a Flamberge. Then again, for most weapons it is easy to eyeball it. Spear longer than sword longer than gladius longer than dagger, etc
I'm in a game on Dragonsfoot where the DM uses a modified and much simpler version of weapon speed, and that's seriously the first time weapon speed has made sense to me -- the first time I've even seen it in action on a regular basis.
What edition?
And his system is really awesome, actually, because it lets you pile on extra things you want to do in a round (within reason) but each one costs initiative.
I do the same thing by adding initiative segments. Drawing a weapon adds 1 segment to your Ini, getting up from a prone position adds 2 segments, etc.


But regardless, I have changed my mind. I think we should keep Initiative in Aqua's DCC game as it is.


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Re: OOC

#259 Post by AQuebman »

Vargr1105 wrote: But regardless, I have changed my mind. I think we should keep Initiative in Aqua's DCC game as it is.
Any particular reasoning or just after some of what was posted above with spell duels etc...? I'll definitely take the initiative list out of the spoiler tag. If I can clean it up further then that please let me know.

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Re: OOC

#260 Post by Vargr1105 »

AQuebman wrote:Any particular reasoning or just after some of what was posted above with spell duels etc...?


Both.

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