Wizards Guild Planning Committee

[Zhym]

You highlight the problem with "full buy-in," though—if it causes conflict with other orders, then it reduces incentives for people to join. Idriss is with the Templars and Bianca is with the Witches of Beith. Only Baxtaw and Pendleton are "unattached" and thus could be "all in" without causing problems. Would Idriss and Bianca still contribute the spells they've listed if they aren't quite at the same membership level as Pendleton and Baxtaw? And how would we distinguish "full buy-in" from "contributed a lot of spells to help found the guild?" Are you suggesting that Bianca and Idriss should just be regular members, or "students?" Or something between "students" and "faculty?"

It would also be hard to police an "all-in" policy. How will the other members know if someone is holding out?

I suspect that free copying from contribution of spells will be enough incentive for "faculty" to keep contributing spells to the library. Perhaps not enough to get people to contribute every spell they find, but enough to keep the library growing, I hope. That's the goal of the guild, after all—to build a library and research facilities, for the primary use of those who contributed (and a secondary use of serving the public).

Maybe we could tweak the rule for "faculty" slightly to allow some to be all-in and others not: those who pledge to contribute all spells they learn to the library can copy all spells from the library for free (spellbook page limits would prevent them from carrying the entire library around on adventures). They might also get two votes instead of one. I'm not sure the tweak is really necessary, though.

If you don't like the "buy-in" for students to access spells of a certain level (i.e., to copy 3rd-level spells, you need to contribute a spell of at least 3rd level), I'm not devoted to it. But without that "buy-in," there's not much difference between "students" and non-members. Then again, maybe there doesn't need to be?

To be honest, that DOES bother me. Nobody has spells of the next higher level. This basically requires successful research first, the library second, and that's not necessary.

It took me a while to figure out what you're saying here. But I think you're saying the problem is that when an MU hits 5th level, he probably won't have a 3rd level spell yet that he can contribute unless he researches it. An MU could also get spells from adventuring or (for a limited number of spells) purchase from other sources, but I get your point. I can take that out.

It does make me wonder how SMAUG can be made into a research university—i.e., by incentivizing research into new spells.

[Marullus]

I re-read and don't have any objections to your rules above. I see the difference that full members are committed to research, donating time to teaching and receiving free research as a benefit. Basic members are transactional. That's fair, and allowing that some spells remain private means nobody has an issue with membership. (Idriss and Bianca are free to be full members.) I think you are fine to wrap this up.

I have a minor preference to require all spells be exchanged and not bought if the "all in" factor is removed. Those with cash and no spells need to invent something and then exchange it. That's what keeps research a going concern.

I would add a specific list of 1st level spells available to non-members at cost (50gp each), aiding new PCs and getting them favorable interest in the guild. (It also guarantees that recruited NPC apprentices have these preferred spells; I will randomize less.)

I need to know how "friendly status" is gained and maintained by PCs. Is it default friendly and lost by NPC death or mistreatment? Is there a condition to be met to reach friendly before recruiting can be done? (i.e. how incentivized are apprentices to get out and learn?)

When the money is delivered, the clerk discretely makes it known that the Archduke would be favorable to an honorary full membership himself.

[Zhym]

Thanks, Marullus.

I have a minor preference to require all spells be exchanged and not bought if the "all in" factor is removed. Those with cash and no spells need to invent something and then exchange it. That's what keeps research a going concern.

I get what you're saying, but I also don't want to lock people out of spell exchange. I'm envisioning a time not that far into the future when, for example, the library has all the Level 1 spells known in the south and most of them that have been discovered in the north. It doesn't seem equitable to say, "Sure, you can copy Detect Magic as soon as you invent a brand new spell or uncover an unknown higher-level spell."

OTOH, that's the kind of thing we could deal with in the future.

I think what I'll do is leave the option open for Pendleton to allow cash instead of spells in the future, but that won't be the state starting out. If it turns out that people are having a hard time getting 1st-level spells because they have no spells to trade and research is a chore or isn't what they want their PCs to be doing (at early levels, adventuring is probably more attractive than research as a way of finding new spells), then Pendleton can open up access without having to revisit the guild's charter.

I would add a specific list of 1st level spells available to non-members at cost (50gp each), aiding new PCs and getting them favorable interest in the guild. (It also guarantees that recruited NPC apprentices have these preferred spells; I will randomize less.)

Offering the spells to non-members at cost seems generous. We do have operations to fund, after all. When you say it guarantees NPC apprentices have access to those spells, do you mean NPCs from SMAUG, or all NPC apprentices? If it's guild apprentices, I'd think making some spells available to members at cost would be sufficient.

I need to know how "friendly status" is gained and maintained by PCs. Is it default friendly and lost by NPC death or mistreatment? Is there a condition to be met to reach friendly before recruiting can be done? (i.e. how incentivized are apprentices to get out and learn?)

Good question. I was thinking that donations of spells or lab equipment would be an excellent way to get in good with the guild. We could also say that anyone with status of Neutral (or whatever the next step down from friendly is called) could buy scrolls or submit items for research by apprentices, but only those with friendly status could hire apprentices for expeditions.

Pendleton would be happy to extend an honorary full membership to the Archduke.

[Zhym]

Here is an update to the proposed rules (changes highlighted in red):

-----

Full Members (Faculty / Partners)

• Unlimited and unrestricted access to the spell library.
• May copy one spell level for free per level of non-duplicate spells contributed; otherwise, they pay materials cost (50 gp/level).
• Founding members may also copy one free level per two levels of spells contributed at the time of founding (excluding Read Magic) by more than one founding member (rounded up).
• Two free research checks per month using guild materials (normally costs 100 gp and 1 week per spell level per check). Further research requires the customary 1 week per check.
• Use of the facilities for spell research is free, but if successful the spell must be added to the guild library. Personal use of the laboratory for item research costs 25 gp per week.
• Teaching load: Must contribute 12 weeks per year to training apprentices.
• As long as the "teaching load" is caught up, they always have +5 apprentices assisting their research.
• Are expected to contribute continuing scholarship (this is deliberately fuzzy. It's less than "copy every spell you find into the library," but there's an expectation that faculty won't just "buy in" and then stop contributing).
• Full voting rights on guild matters (but they also have to go to faculty meetings)
• Free room and board (good meals)

Basic Members (Students / Associates)

• Access to the "open stacks" in the spell library (i.e., all spells except those restricted to faculty use)
• Must contribute spell levels for any spell levels received (at the time of trade). Contributed spells must not already be in the library. Students must supply their own inks (50 gp/level).
• Access to spells of a given level requires the ability to cast spells of that level, and (2) an initial donation of a spell of at least that level (e.g., a student may not copy any third-level spells until he or she has donated a spell of at least third level. After that donation, the student may pay for further third-level spells with any combination of spell levels)
• The Archchancellor (Archmage) may a declare section of the library (i.e., spell level) to be "reasonably complete." Students may copy spells of a "reasonably complete" level for 100 gp/level (including materials) in lieu of contributing spells.
• May use the laboratory for research, paying their own lab fees (100 gp/spell level/check for spell research, 25 gp per week for item research). Apprentices may be hired for an additional 100 gp per apprentice level per week.
• No voting rights.
• Free room and board (good meals)

Non-Members

• May purchase scrolls at the prices listed (generally, 200 gp per spell level). Scrolls are offered for a limited set of spells.
• May purchase spell-casting services for apprentices (spells and prices TBD)
• Anyone with Friendly status may recruit apprentices for expeditions. "Friendly" is the default status except for followers of deities hostile to magic (e.g., Gwanwen), to whom the guild is Suspicious.
• May commission item research by an apprentice

Facilities

• The laboratory has 5,000 gp of equipment, granting +1 to research checks.
• The guild has a proctor that adds +1 to research checks. The proctor also prevents critical failures on spell research checks from damaging the laboratory, tower, or NPC assistants.

-----

I've come around to your thinking on ditching the requirement to donate an Nth-level spell to get access to Nth-level spells. And I decided to make the default standing Friendly for most PCs.

I also removed the 100 gp/week cost for faculty to use the research facilities. Charging faculty to do research just seems wrong to me. And it's a lot more expensive than what Pierpont charges to identify items. So I changed the rules so that spell research by faculty is free but the spell must be added to the guild's library. Personal use for item research is 25 gp/week. Student fees are 100 gp/week for spell research but only 25 gp/week for item research. I think that's more in line with the cost of hiring Pierpont to identify items. Thoughts?

I'm confused about something—was your suggestion that faculty could get two free research checks per month without having to spend the traditional week doing the research? Or did I misread?

[Marullus]

I'm confused about something—was your suggestion that faculty could get two free research checks per month without having to spend the traditional week doing the research? Or did I misread?

No, I just was bounding cost. I was looking at spell research which is 100-900gp/check. I guess it's a moot point because any check more than 400gp will take more than a month anyway.

I said originally "for them or an apprentice," I think, which allowed for roleplay to enable a "faculty" sponsor to help pay for another PC they desire to aid.

It's simpler your way.

Other notes:
* I am glad for the default Friendly and approve of your exception.
* The proctor adds +1 to the Catastrophe check, not the research check. I will revise the catastrophe table to make that cleaner.

[Zhym]

Oh - the 100 gp/week for spell research is inherent in the spell research process, not specific to the tower. I obviously haven't looked up the spell research rules lately, but I just did. So the two free checks per month was instead of the usual 100 gp.

Now I'm confused about what you mean by it being a moot point.

[Marullus]

100gp and one week/spell level. I was concerned that it would be unbalancing to have "free research." But because it also requires time, I think it is a moot point.

[Zhym]

Okay. So free research for faculty on spells and items, and for students on items?

Can multiple people use the lab at the same time?

[Marullus]

Sounds good.

[Zhym]

Thanks. Here's the (final?) summary of rules:

-----

Full Members (Faculty / Partners)

• Unlimited and unrestricted access to the spell library.
• May copy one spell level for free per level of non-duplicate spells contributed; otherwise, they pay materials cost (50 gp/level).
• Founding members may also copy one free level per two levels of spells contributed at the time of founding (excluding Read Magic) by more than one founding member (rounded up).
• Free use of the laboratory for spell and item research.
• Spell research does not incur usual 100 gp/spell-level cost, but if successful the spell must be added to the guild library.
• Teaching load: Must contribute 12 weeks per year to training apprentices.
• As long as the "teaching load" is caught up, they always have +5 apprentices assisting their research.
• Are expected to contribute continuing scholarship (this is deliberately fuzzy. It's less than "copy every spell you find into the library," but there's an expectation that faculty won't just "buy in" and then stop contributing).
• Full voting rights on guild matters (but they also have to go to faculty meetings)
• Free room and board (good meals)

Basic Members (Students / Associates)

• Access to the "open stacks" in the spell library (i.e., all spells except those restricted to faculty use)
• Must contribute spell levels for any spell levels received (at the time of trade). Contributed spells must not already be in the library. Students must supply their own inks (50 gp/level).
• Access to spells of a given level requires the ability to cast spells of that level.
• The Archchancellor (Archmage) may a declare section of the library (i.e., spell level) to be "reasonably complete." Students may copy spells of a "reasonably complete" level for 100 gp/level (including materials) in lieu of contributing spells.
• May use the laboratory for research. Item research is free, from spell research is at the normal cost (100 gp/spell level). Apprentices may be hired for an additional 100 gp per apprentice level per week.
• No voting rights.
• Free room and board (good meals)

Non-Members

• May purchase scrolls at the prices listed (generally, 200 gp per spell level). Scrolls are offered for a limited set of spells.
• May purchase spell-casting services for apprentices (spells and prices TBD)
• Anyone with Friendly status may recruit apprentices for expeditions. "Friendly" is the default status except for followers of deities hostile to magic (e.g., Gwanwen), to whom the guild is Suspicious.
• May commission item research by an apprentice

Facilities

• The laboratory has 5,000 gp of equipment, granting +1 to research checks.
• The guild has a proctor that adds +1 to research checks. The proctor also prevents critical failures on spell research checks from damaging the laboratory, tower, or NPC assistants.
• Multiple guild members may use the lab for research at the same time.

Membership Roster

• Pendleton Kettleworth - Archchancellor / Archmage, Founding Member. 10 free spell levels available to copy.
• Baxtaw - Faculty, Founding Member. 22 free spell levels.
• Bianca - Faculty, Founding Member. 16 free spell levels.
• Idriss - Faculty, Founding Member. 20 free spell levels.
• Archduke Gaul - Honorary Faculty.
• Earc - Adjunct Faculty?

[Zhym]

Here is the list of spells again, with my first shot at marking (with "**") those that should be restricted to Faculty only:

Level 1
Charm Person **
Comprehend Languages
Dancing Ligts
Detect Magic
Floating Disc
Light
Magic Aura
Magic Missile **
Protection from Evil
Read Magic
Sleep
Unseen Servant
Ventriloquism

Level 2
Continual Darkness
Continual Light
Darkness, 15 ft
Detect Evil
ESP **
Invisibility **
Leviation
Locate Object
Mirror Image
Mirror Others
Phantasmal Force **
Stinking Cloud **
Web **

Level 3
Dispel Magic **
Fireball **
Fly
Gust of Wind
Monster Summoning I **

Level 4
Massmorph **
Polymorph Other **
Polymorph Self

Level 5

Level 6
Invisible Stalker **

What do people think—is that too many restricted spells? Not enough?

[Bluehorse]

I think it is good so far. Just have to ask if the spells are anything you would trust Blutarski from Animal House to have access to.

[Marullus]

So, ** is Full member, others are Basic Member?

What is demarcated as available to non-members/new arrivals?

What's the buy-in from non-members to Basic Member again?

I understand Magic Missile is potent. You are restricting that no NPC apprentices recruited from your University will ever have it.

[Zhym]

The spells marked ** would be available only to full members. The spells that would be offered to non-members are TBD.

I was thinking that anyone could sign up as a Student, but they can only copy spells or use the research facilities according to the rules described above. That would open the guild to use as free room & board, though, so maybe joining the guild requires contributing one spell not already in the library? Or maybe a simple enrollment fee? Thoughts?

I hadn't thought about the issue of NPC access to restricted spells. Hm.

[Marullus]

I think contributing one spell not in the library is good.

[Dram]

So Baxtaw has a few questions. Founding Member. 22 free spell levels.- This at no cost to Baxtaw or just research cost? Baxtaw has no 3rd lvl spells and been looking for another M.U. with 3rd lvl spells. (All were out on expeditions at the time.) What is the timeline for all of this discussion. As Baxtaw is currently on a expedition.

[Zhym]

I'll take Magic Missile off of the restricted list and add Charm Person, which is just full of potential abuse by unethical students.

I'll also take Web off the restricted list. Does anyone have an opinion on whether Invisibility should be restricted?

So Baxtaw has a few questions. Founding Member. 22 free spell levels.- This at no cost to Baxtaw or just research cost? Baxtaw has no 3rd lvl spells and been looking for another M.U. with 3rd lvl spells. (All were out on expeditions at the time.) What is the timeline for all of this discussion. As Baxtaw is currently on a expedition.

Marullus can confirm, but that's my understanding & intent: Baxtaw can copy 22 spell levels from the library at no cost (materials are paid out of the guild's supplies). He can copy as many more spell levels from the library as he wants at 50 gp per spell-level materials cost. Of course, with this many spells available, spell book page limits may become an issue.

I think the guild is operational as of late September, or at least before the October 15 expeditions set out. It's up to Marullus whether Baxtaw can add spells and be able to use them in his current expedition.

[Marullus]

Yes, Baxtaw can.

[Dram]

Baxtaw would like to keep invisibilty on the restricted list till someone from the guild can study and create "Detect Invisiblity" for the wizards guild.

[Zhym]

Good point.