Sidetrack conversation about ships

[Ramona]

I was thinking an upper bunk that folds against or into the wall like a sideways murphy bed and an lower bunk thats kinds of a sofa that pulls out into a double with the back cushion becoming the other half of the bed.

[ffilz]

That works.

[Ramona]

Kind of this, but against the side. I saw a scifi image but I can’t find it anymore. The upper bunk either goes into the roof or wall and the lower folds up into a couch. Lets face it most people would just keep it out all the time.

https://imgur.com/a/s4qK0Vq

[Ramona]

Found a technical drawing.... well more architectural.

https://pin.it/twj2jcn7xgllf6

[Eris]

With Gravity Control, ceilings and walls are also useful surfaces. Maybe the bed is up one wall or on the ceiling and you literally climb into and fall out of bed? Or maybe you wrap yourself in a "cocoon", go to zero g and just hang in your stateroom?

As for as washing clothing and people is concerned, high tech "sonic" cleaners can be used. Hang clothing in the "fresher" and hit the appropriate button. Step into the same fresher and get yourself cleaned up with a different setting on the controls.

[ffilz]

With Gravity Control, ceilings and walls are also useful surfaces. Maybe the bed is up one wall or on the ceiling and you literally climb into and fall out of bed? Or maybe you wrap yourself in a "cocoon", go to zero g and just hang in your stateroom?

As for as washing clothing and people is concerned, high tech "sonic" cleaners can be used. Hang clothing in the "fresher" and hit the appropriate button. Step into the same fresher and get yourself cleaned up with a different setting on the controls.

For gravity, I'm just assuming "movie" gravity... i.e. the floor is always down no matter what the ship is doing... Gravity can fail or be turned off (but not cycled rapidly) so Zero-G conditions may occur. I suppose under the "movie" gravity rules, collisions and hits in ship combat should knock people around...

Sonic washing is also a possibility. I kind of like the idea of a laundry in the commons though...

[Ramona]

How loud does my kid have to yell at his ahirt to make it not stink?

[Ramona]

I have never understood the whole mechanics behind sonic showers. Is there any real world evidence? I get that in 60’s Star Trek it was a cheap and easy fix to plumbing a set and keeping things PG but modern ultrasonic cleaners still require a liquid solution.

[ffilz]

I have never understood the whole mechanics behind sonic showers. Is there any real world evidence? I get that in 60’s Star Trek it was a cheap and easy fix to plumbing a set and keeping things PG but modern ultrasonic cleaners still require a liquid solution.

Yea, I tend to agree. It's cool to think of a Sci-Fi cleaning solution, but ultimately you need something that will do a good job of carrying away the dirt and dead skin. Even if you blast the yuck to atoms with some kind of cleaning ray, you still need to flush those atoms away. Water has good properties for that, though a vacuum cleaner would also work.

[Eris]

Well, a sonic shower isn't completely waterless, nor soapless either. However, it would reduce the amount of both to a very small amount. To quote

The sonic shower introduced in ST:TMP was conceptually based on a real-world "hydrosonic shower" prototype unit developed at - IIRC - McDonnell Douglas Astronautics' Huntington Beach, California facility circa 1976 under a study contract to Jesco von Puttkamer's office at NASA-OSF in order to minimize the amount of liquid water storage required for long-duration manned space missions. A description of the system was also published by its designers in one of the early AIAA Space Manufacturing volumes edited by Jerry Grey. I don't have my copy handy, but the mechanism employed steam jets and high-frequency (ultrasonic), low-amplitude acoustic generators to bathe the user in a thin film of water condensate which would then be vibrated, thus initiating the cleansing function. A few drops of liquid soap was all that was required to dissolve whatever sweat and dirt had accumulated since the last "shower", but further development of the hardware was apparently never pursued due to the excessive mass, complexity and cost of the original, to say nothing of the catastrophic budget cuts during the 1970s that destroyed NASA's plans for manned spaceflight beyond STS. The idea itself is absolutely sound (heh) though, as none of the MDA engineers who subjected themselves to the prototype reported any discomfort or injury during testing.

So, it's possible, just not with NO water/soap.

[ffilz]

And here's an article on showering (or rather bathing) in space (pretty much covers the entire US space program):

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/edit ... ower-space

I'm going to suggest though that given artificial gravity and the easy of recycling water, that a traditional shower is available for those who desire it.

[Ramona]

So I can’t stand in front of the speakers at a Swedish death metal concert and get clean? The future is dead to me....

[ffilz]

Probably halfway to the upper deck Ana hears the clang from above of a forcefully closed hatch.

Someone should really label our deckplan, but I think Sara and Vee were doubled up on one of the upper deck ones?

Sara throws herself into the chair in the cabin. After a long moment staring into space and a sigh, she pulls out the pocket computer and punches up her last message from home. Mama Priya's face comes up on the screen. Sara pushes a few buttons and watches while Mama Priya tells her 8 years is long enough to "run around out there" and Sara should come home, get married and have some children while she's still young enough to do it.

I just added labels to the deck plan and put a larger version of it up in the document.

We have a spot for crew cabin assignments, but we've never finalized that and filled it in...

Our original crew was 9, so using one of the passenger cabins. Mark Wood (as Steward) and one other were in the passenger cabin, with Captain Wen having a cabin to himself.

With the crew shuffling, we need to redo the cabin assignments, and this time, put them in the document...

[ffilz]

Foix nods to Ana but it appears his intention is to attend to some other task before approaching Sara. He is, however, determined to deal with the issue on his return.

(OOC: There will be something up to a half hour(?) delay between the Foix being seen in the galley and his apology to Sara. The timescale being somewhere between Vee starting to make her hot chocolate and the drink going stone cold!

That should keep the inter PC timeline straight.

Frank – updates please on the nature of the “information” that Squee deems valuable re the crytals. Obviously if it is simply their physical location then we already have that!

Ship plans look good but I can only see the front end of the plan - about half the bridge up to the airlock).

Ok, I put a copy of the deck plan image on my web site, link in the document. That should help those who have issues viewing it in the document.

[EDIT - Squee hasn't been told about the local worlds...]

As to Squee's thoughts on the value of the crystals. Bringing some samples to the group of researchers you mentioned should be worth something, she has also heard rumors of some kind of psionic institute in a former Imperial world in the Wine Dark Rift region. She has her own curiosity about them, hinting that he involvement in the failed venture might be more than just her underwater abilities.

As to Chu's thoughts of going off world for a G-Carrier, that would certainly be an option. Squee doesn't see any immediacy to the operation, though the more time that passes, the more possibility someone else discovers the importance of the container she was shipped in, however, Arthiop which is right next door is TL 10.

Oh, and Pongo's search indicates the Ramos is on a regular route here (I haven't yet figured out how often it visits here, but it does a regular route from Tegel through here to off-map). The Moose Tracks has shown here at other times, while the Turtle has not. Of the Fogbound arrivals, the Ascendant and Faith's Folly show up here on occasion while the Purple Cow is also a one time visitor.

I really need to work on some actually logical ship encounter charts and determination of ships in port and coming and going... The stock encounter charts don't work at all, I made some modified ones that sort of work, but they still really don't work... The problem is each ship has to have come from somewhere and being going somewhere, even if back where it came from, it has to be able to reach that somewhere. A Class-A starport that is J3 from anywhere else, with no space lanes should have less traffic than a Class-D star port (like Shedezar) that is on a J1 space lane main, or a better example, Koradin that is a Class-D between two Class-B.

[Ramona]

Are the ship’s workstations interchangable? ie - are they basically the same thing with custom UI’s depending on who you are? So Sara’s piloting setup could potentially be different from Pongo’s because Sara likes the altitude indicator over here instead of over there.

Could you pilot the ship or navigate from any of the workstations? If so Andy could potentially navigate from engineering, in a pinch.

[ffilz]

Are the ship’s workstations interchangable? ie - are they basically the same thing with custom UI’s depending on who you are? So Sara’s piloting setup could potentially be different from Pongo’s because Sara likes the altitude indicator over here instead of over there.

Could you pilot the ship or navigate from any of the workstations? If so Andy could potentially navigate from engineering, in a pinch.

I've always assumed some differentiation, but you can do many things from most stations. There probably are some lockouts though between engineering and bridge so that having hostiles at least in engineering doesn't totally screw you (maybe bridge can shut down engineering controls?).

There's an attention issue. 1977 rules assume someone filling two roles gets no skill bonuses in either role. In 1981, this is softened so you get a -1 to each skill. Scout ships are designed to be operated by a single crewman. My feeling is that people can serve in more than one position and don't automatically get the penalty for filling multiple positions but you can't just fill the crew numbers as required and then have the best skilled person make any given roll. So there will be times when the person assigned to a particular crew station is the person who must make the roll, they can't be assigned multiple positions (and if so, then the penalty applies).

In this particular instance, my feeling is that Navigation is an ongoing role, as is Pilot and Engineering, so a different person has to be assigned each of those roles, or the penalty applies.

[ffilz]

After breakfast he proposes to transfer everyone's gear over to the Kiara Surabi using the air raft.

"I can fly the launch. That will leave the rest of you to focus on the ruins," Vee offers.

So little technicality that I'm still in the process of resolving... Per the 1977 rules, only someone with Ship's Boat skill can pilot a non-starship. 1981 allowed using 1 less level of Pilot skill (which my house rules document that was originally written assuming a 1981 rules base indicates a preference for the 1977 rule). I know where my thinking was, I don't like the idea of one skill being used instead of another (otherwise a character who gained Pilot-2, Ship's Boat-1 basically got a booby prize skill).

On the other hand, only Navy, Belters, and Nobles even get Ship's Boat... The Scouts who utilize Type KS Scout modified Safari ships with a launch don't know how to fly the damned thing...

So I've got a couple ideas:

1. Modify the skill charts and remove/replace the Ship's Boat skill.

2. Keep Ship's Boat, but instead of making Pilot act as 1 less level of Ship's Boat, make Pilot work in full for Ship's Boat. If you earn both skills, add them together and that's your Pilot skill. If you only earn Ship's Boat, you can only fly non-starships (or maybe you can only fly a ship in maneuver drive, you can't properly pilot a ship into jump).

I think I like option #2, but before I firm that up, offer an opportunity for discussion.

[joertexas]

2. Keep Ship's Boat, but instead of making Pilot act as 1 less level of Ship's Boat, make Pilot work in full for Ship's Boat. If you earn both skills, add them together and that's your Pilot skill. If you only earn Ship's Boat, you can only fly non-starships (or maybe you can only fly a ship in maneuver drive, you can't properly pilot a ship into jump).

I think I like option #2, but before I firm that up, offer an opportunity for discussion.[/ooc]

I'll channel my RL flying knowledge here...

It's much easier to transition down to a smaller aircraft than up to a larger one. Given that these both have grav lifters and HEPLAR drives, a certified starship pilot probably can fly launches and such.

[ffilz]

2. Keep Ship's Boat, but instead of making Pilot act as 1 less level of Ship's Boat, make Pilot work in full for Ship's Boat. If you earn both skills, add them together and that's your Pilot skill. If you only earn Ship's Boat, you can only fly non-starships (or maybe you can only fly a ship in maneuver drive, you can't properly pilot a ship into jump).

I think I like option #2, but before I firm that up, offer an opportunity for discussion.[/ooc]

I'll channel my RL flying knowledge here...

It's much easier to transition down to a smaller aircraft than up to a larger one. Given that these both have grav lifters and HEPLAR drives, a certified starship pilot probably can fly launches and such.

Yea, that was sort of my thought. Note also that in the Navy and Merchants, Pilot requires an EDU 8+ while in the Navy Ship's Boat does not. Scouts get their free Pilot-1 but after that need EDU 8+ to get more. Per my house rules, the only Supplement 4 career that gets Pilot without EDU 8+ is Nobles. Pirate Lieutenant also gets Pilot-1. This implies that beyond basic Pilot skill, it really is harder than Ship's Boat. Nobles probably have access to special learning technology or something.

On a side note, HEPLAR is not a Classic Traveller thing... Maneuver Drives are Maneuver Drives, with whatever technology that is... I prefer not to get into too much tecnocal detail as to how the technology works, that too often leads to crazy interpolations of what the technology can do. Some of that is fun, right up to the point where someone decides that Traveller Maneuver Drive allows relativistic planet busters and the whole premise of the game setting is literally blown away...

[joertexas]

On a side note, HEPLAR is not a Classic Traveller thing... Maneuver Drives are Maneuver Drives, with whatever technology that is... I prefer not to get into too much tecnocal detail as to how the technology works, that too often leads to crazy interpolations of what the technology can do. Some of that is fun, right up to the point where someone decides that Traveller Maneuver Drive allows relativistic planet busters and the whole premise of the game setting is literally blown away...[/ooc]

I'm a TNE gearhead, at least for starship design. The rules get kinda odd for other things.