OOC I

[dmw71]

It's easier to connect a bunch of itty bitty links together to make chain mail?

I think of it like this: There are material costs and labor costs (keeping in mind that labor was incredibly cheap).

Chain mail was labor intensive, but material cheap. Plate mail was the opposite, where the actual labor was relatively simple, but the materials (e.g. large sheets of steel) were extremely expensive. I may be wrong, but that is how I justify/process it.

B/X has a linear cost/AC curve. Leather: 20 gp, AC 7. Chain: 40 gp, AC 5. Plate: 60 gp, AC 3. A shield is 10 gp and gets you -1 to AC. A point of AC costs 20 gp. I like that. I also like that it's possible to start out with plate mail in B/X.

I'll admit, there is a certain elegance to the BX pricing structure. Whether this elegance should override accuracy is another matter. Then again, I find myself constantly trying to turn D&D into a realistic game, but it is really just a fantasy game.

Also, 60 gp isn't that cheap considering the average starting gold in B/X is 105gp.

Unless a character begins the game of a certain social status (something I wouldn't mind using at some point -- in a future game), I don't know that I agree that plate mail should be attainable to a beginning level character.


For now, I'm content to pick a ruleset and stick closely to it. The cost of armor is one of the big tradeoffs in playing LL instead of BX. But clerics get spells starting at 1st level in LL, which is also significant.

[Zhym]

I blame AD&D for making plate mail this mythical thing that's hard to acquire. Realism? Social status? These aren't things for Basic D&D.

Basic is for getting outfitted and adventuring fast enough that the rest of your family doesn't have a chance to say, "How about we just play Taboo instead. Everyone knows that one, right?" Cheap(-ish) plate mail (and we're talking plate mail, not "full plate" or "field plate"—a clarification that was one of the few good things about Unearthed Arcana) is fully in that spirit. If you want to play a quick, easy game of fighters, wizards, elves, and dwarves, you want to play the knight in shining armor now, not the next time everyone agrees to pull the game out, whenever that might be.

I'm not arguing that you should change the rules you're using in this game. I'm just explaining why I love B/X, complete with 60-gp plate mail, and find LL to be an AD&D-tainted substitute. Complaining that plate mail isn't priced realistically in B/X is like saying you could never build a hotel on Boardwalk for a measly $1000.

[dmw71]

Complaining that plate mail isn't priced realistically in B/X is like saying you could never build a hotel on Boardwalk for a measly $1000.

Touche.

[Alethan]

But clerics get spells starting at 1st level in LL, which is also significant.

Indeed, says the halfling who was nearly smitten by a beetle...

[dmw71]

That beetle was pretty nasty. Easily beatable by a party, but dangerous for those in the front line.

[Zhym]

Especially when they can't afford decent armor.

Sorry.

The LL armor table boggles me, though. Why did they take the armor cost table from AD&D (with +/- 5gp perturbations to avoid copyright issues) instead of B/X—and then increase the cost of plate mail by 50gp? Sure, chain mail is 5gp cheaper, but it's still 70 gp vs. 40 in B/X. Forget shining plate mail armor—many fighters in LL won't even be able to afford chain mail starting out.

I wonder what the Rules Compendium used for prices.

[dmw71]

I wonder what the Rules Compendium used for prices.

Rules Cyclopedia - Armor.jpg (36.66 KiB) Viewed 274 times

[Zhym]

Thanks.

So LL really is a weird hybrid. Even more so if you bring in LL Advanced, which adds AD&D classes and the option to do race+class or still use race as a class while still having the B/X-style attribute bonuses.

Oh well. If I love B/X so much, I can run my own damn game, right?

[dmw71]

Oh well. If I love B/X so much, I can run my own damn game, right?

Lol

I love BX, too. It's just, as a DM (or LL), I prefer to run the free OGL version of the rules (unless I know every player involved owns the official rules). Especially when the rulesets are so close (with a few exceptions).

[Zhym]

If I do ever run my own B/X game, I may just list the differences between LL and B/X as house rules. It'd still be a shorter list than your full set of house rules.

[dmw71]

Only, my house rules are awesome.

[Zhym]

No argument there.

[Alethan]

Only, my house rules are awesome.

Speaking of, any chance of a house rule on healing? ☺

[dmw71]

Only, my house rules are awesome.

Speaking of, any chance of a house rule on healing? ☺

I think the actual rules are pretty generous, actually:

"For each full day of
complete rest, a character or monster will recover 1d3 hp."

I can maybe play a little loose with the "full day" bit, but not by a lot.

[dmw71]

I currently have Tom and Watts taking a fire beetle gland, which leaves one more.

Two requests:

1. Please try to be more definitive in your actions (e.g. instead of something vague like "Bob can take one," say "Bob takes one and puts it in his belt pouch."). If you're unsure whether or not you should take something, feel free to raise the question in the 'ooc' thread.
2. Also, please make sure to actually add the gland to your inventory along with its location.

[dmw71]

Speaking of, any chance of a house rule on healing?

Actually, I've been thinking about this (work meetings are boring) and one thing I could do (which I did in one of my earlier games), is allow clerics to memorize any spells they want, but be able to automatically replace their memorized spell with the 'cure' equivalent.

In other words, a cleric would never need to memorize 'cure light wounds' for instance, and could memorize any other 1st level spell. So, at 1st level, they can still only cast the 1 spell per day, but they will have two spells to choose from:

• cure light wounds
  whatever other spell they memorized

Thoughts?

[dmw71]

...allow clerics to memorize any spells they want, but be able to automatically replace their memorized spell with the 'cure' equivalent.

To piggy-back on this, I noticed that Canun has 'protection from evil' memorized as his one spell for the day.

If this new rule is implemented, Canun would be able to keep his 'protection from evil' spell, or convert his daily spell to 'cure light wounds' and cast it instead.


You know what, I actually like this idea so I'm just going to go ahead and add that as a house rule. I will add it now.

Note: Canun does not have to cast 'clw' now (and can hold onto his 'poe' spell), but he can convert it if he wishes.


Edit:
The following house rules have been updated:

• Spells
  Class Specific Rules

[dmw71]

Can you guys please agree upon marching orders for both 5-foot and 10-foot wide passages?

5-Foot
Rank 1:
Rank 2:
Rank 3:
Rank 4:
Rank 5:
Rank 6:
Rank 7:
Rank 8:
Rank 9:

10-Foot
Rank 1:
Rank 2:
Rank 3:
Rank 4:
Rank 5:

[drpete]

I like the house rule... it may be that the clerics will always be called on to use their clw, but this at least gives them the possibility of a different spell.

As far as marching order, here's a proposal. I'm not strongly wedded to it... whoever's in front is probably going to die, so just be ready for that

10 ft wide:

Keebler (scouting)
Tippin, AdaRue (best armored, non wounded)
Tom, Junius (wounded, but could step up in a pinch)
Mila, Rainey (mages)
Watts, Canun (rear guard)

Canun's angling toward the back, otherwise, I'd put him up front with Tippin.

5 ft wide:
Keebler (scouting)
Tippin
AdaRue
Junius
Tom
Mila
Rainey
Watts
Canun

[Alethan]

Tom would happily step up into a front rank if one of those people doesn't want the job.

But is otherwise fine with his position in both orders.