The Unseen Servant forums

I was actually searching for a thread I remember reading in the Dragonsfoot forum about ability score generation when I came across these posts. Definitely some interesting discussions.

Non-physical abilities... dice or roleplaying?
Player or character knowledge (Int, Wis, Cha)?

I think it dawned on me why while reading through the shorter of the two links (the one is 35 pages!) why I never played magic users. I didn't want to risk my character suffering due to a lack of player intelligence.


I am curious though, especially from those that DM, how do you handle the player vs. character differences in your games?

For me, not being a big time immersive role playing kinda guy, this is where the role playing came in. You put folks on their honor about what they know or don't know. And you let players get creative about how they might know something.

The way I look at it is that some of the characters start out at 100 years old or up (well if your a 1/2 orc fighter you start out at like 12 or something, but still) and they must know stuff that a player wouldn't know too. Not just the mystical sigils to cast spells and Bonetti's Defense with a sword.

I'll admit I haven't had a chance to read your links (doing paperwork for the second job) so hopefully this is sorta on topic.

dmw71 wrote:...I think it dawned on me why while reading through the shorter of the two links (the one is 35 pages!) why I never played magic users. I didn't want to risk my character suffering due to a lack of player intelligence.


I am curious though, especially from those that DM, how do you handle the player vs. character differences in your games?

As a player only, I feel the same way. I have stayed generally prefered to play the boring human and/or fighter types to keep the player competence (or lack thereof) in check.
I guess (as most of my attempts at character creation would show), I generally use intel or wisdom as my dump stat, so I can play off any player screw up that gets the character in trouble.

onlyme wrote:As a player only, I feel the same way. I have stayed generally prefered to play the boring human and/or fighter types to keep the player competence (or lack thereof) in check.

I actually just inherited a character with a 19 intelligence and 18 wisdom. Seriously?! How am I supposed to realistically play that?

I'm with you. Fighter-types all the way.

dmw71 wrote:

onlyme wrote:As a player only, I feel the same way. I have stayed generally prefered to play the boring human and/or fighter types to keep the player competence (or lack thereof) in check.

I actually just inherited a character with a 19 intelligence and 18 wisdom. Seriously?! How am I supposed to realistically play that?

I'm with you. Fighter-types all the way.

Yeah, that is practically impossible not to screwup. A PC with that high of both would be MacGyver. How would a player be able to accurately use middle earth duct tape, chewing gum and paper clips to fight off a dragon?
At least when one of those is mediocre, you can laugh off a mis-played move.

From a DM perspective, though, perhaps the biggest problem is when players make their Intelligence and Wisdom abilities their "dump" stats, yet play their characters beyond their capabilities.

I don't know if there is a way to fairly adjudicate that situation, but it would be nice.

The DM can ensure that those types of situations arise. Like "screw the sage, Rognar knows about this..." or something of that sort. I'd allow obscure knowlege rolls and the like. There's ways... hopefully ways that don't seem too manufactured, but ways.

rredmond wrote:The DM can ensure that those types of situations arise. Like "screw the sage, Rognar knows about this..." or something of that sort. I'd allow obscure knowlege rolls and the like. There's ways... hopefully ways that don't seem too manufactured, but ways.

I agree that the DM has to control that. I guess the bigger question is: how do you differentiate the player's intelligence/wisdom/playing ability to the character's? For instance, a PC with 18 wisdom and intelligence for example... but the player is new (or just bad )... if they fail to investigate something or they rush into battle area while the wizard is launching an entangle spell... should a DM say, "Sorry, you are wiser than that..."

DMs that give extra XP for great game play... is playing badly due to low int/wisdom a sign of great play? Or should you reward a player who makes uncanny smart decisions that are in contrast to his PC?
It seems like it makes those stats truly dump stats if you do.