Game of Thrones: Against the Band of Nine OOC

[jdluna]

I got the book, so I'm going to read through and see what is available. It looks like we are good on Knights, I don't know that I would want to be from a house anyway.

[max_vale]

Good to hear!

I don't know if you're interested; but smoke warrior's PC has a boon compaion; a Dothraki warrior I gave the name of 'Voqarro'; this could be a PC if you'd like to take on the 'exotic warrior' role.....if so, you're welcome to change the name.

If not; no worries.....right now; virtually any kind of character could work well for the group.

[Enoch]

I was thinking about that. I took the Status for Intrigue, but it doesn't make sense for the son of a bastard of a minor House who was expelled from the Citadel. I'll find another way to spend it!

[Rusty Tincanne]

I have retooled my character (now named Darryn Drinkwater) a bit and reposted him in the PC thread. All changes were made to hone in on his history as a woodsman/hunter and his lascivious nature. Things changed:

• Background - clarifications and slight changes, though I did make myself Master of the Hunt.
  Weapons - Hunting bow rather than long bow. Woodsman's axe instead of a dirk.
  Specialty - Disguise 1B (rather than short blades 1B) due to his need to hide his identity when hooking up with (off-limits) women in the community. He isn't really a warrior/soldier anyhow.
  Ability - Fighter 3 because he has had a need to fight on occasion when he angers husbands/fathers/brothers. Increased Cunning to 3 to indicate his ability to work out details of meeting up with lovers and organizing hunts for large groups of people.
  Destiny - spent a point to gain Night Eyes, which is needed both for rendezvous and survival in the forest.

Considering Jerrek's rakish nature and lust for any woman, the only way he would have been connected to the oldest daughter would be if he had charmed her into his bed. But that would be too dangerous since it could possibly lose him his comfortable home. So that won't ever have happened.


Max, you can probably delete your posting of him, since it is older and duplicitous. Also, I couldn't do any editing to the character because it was your post.

[Enoch]

Considering either Thievery or Animal Handling for my extra point from Status (I could drop it to 1 to represent the fact that I was basically an outcast, though that will hurt my Intrigue defense). Marullus raises a good point--how important is bumping Valyrian from 1 to 2? I was thinking it would be useful in understanding enemy commanders' plans during spy missions, etc., but it's very expensive to bump.

[max_vale]

Personally; I'd find it much better to have a PC be able to understand and/or read & write Low Valyrian; but this is ENTIRELY your call amigo!

[Marullus]

There aren't any guidelines for what the levels of language mean... does 1D Low Valyrian make them unable to read-write? Does 2D denote extra fluency? Is 1D enough to say "I speak that" or do you need 2D to say so? 3D? 4D? The only use I see in the book is that 4D in a language (including your own) is needed for choice of one benefit.

In most situations, I'd imagine you'd be rolling based on what you are doing WITH the language - Deception, Persuasion, etc. Under what circumstances would you need to actually roll a Language die?

They're really punishing to buy. What is the value for that investiture at extra levels?

</devilsadvocate>

[Rusty Tincanne]

I haven't read too much into that, but from a real world perspective, a PC would be learning a second language. I have taken a cumulative 6 years of latin, 6 years of spanish and a couple short classes of spanish, to boot. After all that, I can tell people I have a yellow pencil the window is open and a few other choice phrases. And I can usually figure out medical terminology based on latin roots. I am a level 0 in both languages in ASOFAI terms, probably.

My guess is a level 1 would make it so you could travel through a country and get by, but not incredibly comfortably. Poor grammar, poor syntax, no conjugation.

If level 2 is everyone's base, that would allow you to get nuances, conjugate most of the time, have some variety in your language, but you'd miss things talking to a college professor and might not score well on the Westeros SATs.

A level 3 would probably mean you paid attention in grammar school and quite possibly get you into a college/university.

(The book probably contradicts all that, but it is my best off-the-cuff guess.

[Enoch]

Rusty, I agree. I can totally get the fact that languages are hard to learn--I took six years of Spanish in high school and college, and still struggled to read the syllabus in my final class (and didn't get any of the double entendres in Don Quixote).

My concern is solely from a game perspective--given that languages are (accurately) so difficult to become proficient in, is it wiser to invest those points elsewhere?

[max_vale]

Hey Rusty;

The Character looks great....but maybe I'm missing something; but since your character is an Adult; he can't have more than 3 Benefits, right? Your character has 4; did you want to drop one?

Enoch:

Yeah, looking at the way they have the Language skills set up; I'm gonna have a House rule to modify/explain that a little bit better. I'm going to say that the KNOWLEDGE skill in addition to background, will determine literacy in the character's native tongue; and a scale of the following (with a nice tip of the cap to Rusty, yet again! ) will indicate what the levels mean....

So; let's say that if you have a Knowledge of 3; you can choose to be literate (barely) in your own tongue (if your character background for it makes sense); 4 would mean you've got a good reading/writing ability; 5 would be Professorial; 6 and up would be noted writers, researchers, etc. (In Westeros terms; 3 might be Davos after Shireen starts teaching him; 4 would be most characters; 5 would be Littlefinger or 'The Reader' from the Iron Islands; 6 would be Tyrion; etc.)

For native Language; having a skill that's something other than 2 would mean something like this:

1: Limited ability to speak.....perhaps not-too-smart; or perhaps a hermit who may have been around people once or for a short period of time; but has largely forgotten a lot of language or never had a chance to learn much language

2: Most people

3: People who have read or acted or told/learned many songs and/or stories; etc.

4: Per the above; only MORE SO; and/or people who have an excellent grasp of regional accents, word changes, etc.

5: Experts in that particular language

(Really no need for anything more than 5)

Non-native Language: (If you're character is literate in their native tongue; and their background would lend the time to learn the written form of this new language; you'd have a literary ability equal to the spoke one as below)

0: No working knowledge.....might know how to say "No" or choice curse words; but that's about it

1: Limited ability to communicate....i.e. you'd sound like a 3 year old; "Me want know where castle is"; but enough to get simple concepts out

2: Conversational ability to communicate.....native speakers of the language would definitely know this isn't your native tongue; and you'd have problems with difficult concepts; but you could definitely get by

3: Good grasp of the language: Probably not good enough to trick smart people into thinking you're a native speaker of the language; but you might fool the not-too-bright or not-too-observant; can pick out the regional accents of the language, but would have a hard time imitating them

4: Excellent grasp of the language: Could fool most native speakers that you're a native speaker as well; would have a decent ability to imitate certain regional accents and only the academic or REALLY observant (think Littlefinger) would be able to determine you were NOT in fact a native speaker

5: You are as able to communicate in this language as you are with your own.



Does this work for people? Enoch: I'd say Keyth would DEFINITELY be literate in Westerosi and if you choose to keep the 2 in Valyrian, he could be in that as well. Synth: Your choice if you want Gannis to be or not.

[Enoch]

Sure, that works. With an investment in Knowledge I'm literate (be aware that means that most characters will be illiterate, having a default Knowledge of 2). Given that Low Valyerian is kind of a lingua franca it's probably worth the forty points.

[max_vale]

Yes indeedy!

[Marullus]

I'll admit, I wasn't very comfortable with some of the above, Max. I'd like to look into it a little further.

5 would be Professorial;

The Gifted Teacher only requires Education 4. Education 4 is also the level for Citadel-trained Maesters; none of their benefits require higher, denoting this is a fairly learned level.

4 would be most characters;

Of the PCs so far, only the Maester has Education 4. All the noble-born characters (including those you created) are functionally illiterate according to this scale. Ser Gannis 3, Ser Eduard 3, The Third Son 2, Darryn Drinkwater 2. An attribute of 4 is a major investment for the core concept of a character; I don't think its fair to assume that most characters would invest in Education.

On the book templates: The anointed knight has knowledge 2/language 3. The Septa has 3/3. The Heir has 2/3. The Maester only has 4/3. The Noble has 3/3. The Hedge Knight, Retainer, Scout, and Squire all have 2/2.

What does it mean to have Education 4?
At a skill of 4, Formidable (12) tests become routine. The book examples are: Heraldry of long-dead houses and lesser landed knights of other kingdoms than your own. It is the level that breaches into Heroic (21+) difficulties and makes them possible.

So, that leaves me uncomfortable. I decided to go through and figure out what the book says better before discussing it.

Language as in the book:

RANK DESCRIPTION
0 You have no familiarity with the language.
1 Your simple understanding allows you to convey basic concepts through speech only.
2 You have a common understanding of the language, and you can speak it well enough. You are still illiterate.
3 You have a good grasp of the language and have a basic ability to read.
4 You have a solid grasp of the language, and your reading level is excellent.
5 You have an excellent understanding of the language and its various dialects. You can read most forms of the written language.

It references a sidebar in the Intrigue section:

Effects  of  Language Common language is vital to intrigues, making it all but impossible to compel other characters who cannot understand you. If your target does not speak your language, you take –3D on all Persuasion tests. If this number exceeds your test dice, you cannot engage the target in an intrigue. While language is important, knowledge of certain languages can even improve your chances at persuading and impressing your target. The ability to speak a rare or native tongue of your opponent suggests education and intelligence, as well as a certain amount of respect. If the target would be impressed by such familiarity, you gain a +1B on tests to influence your opponents. Good examples are using Valyrian when communicating with someone of House Targaryen or another educated person, the various tongues of the Free Cities when talking with a native of the same city, Dothraki with the Dothraki people, and so on.

Under Cunning, there is a Decipher action. It specifies it takes a Cunning test to examine written text... (What?!?)

DIFFICULTY DESCRIPTION
(0) Decipher writings in a language in which you have rank 6.
(3) Decipher writings in a language in which you have rank 5.
(6) Decipher writings in a language in which you have rank 4.
(9) Decipher writings in a language in which you have rank 3 or crack a simple code.
(12) Decipher writings in a language in which you have rank 2 or crack a moderate code.
(15) Decipher writings in a language in which you have rank 1 or crack a tough code.
(18) Decipher writings in any language or crack a very difficult code.

I searched the entire book for all instances of the word Language. That's it. Yikes. It says Language is useful for Persuasion checks, but its only impact on persuasion/intrigue is from the sidebar above - you know it or you don't, and it is no penalty or -3D. No graduated scales.


Proposal...
I can get behind the house rule, but would state it this way.

• Knowledge governs literacy in your native tongue. The Language skill is for additional languages.
• The scale for how literate you are is the same one from above; Education 3 is functional literacy, not Education 4.
• Language skill of 2 is fluent enough to avoid a Persuasion penalty.
• Language skill of 3 is basic written fluency in an additional language.
• Language skill of 4 or 5 gives bonus dice to Persuasion for being impressive to native speakers. (perhaps +1B for each level above 2?)
• Persuasion penalty for only have a skill of 1 (some amount less than -3D) gets established by GM. Or, the complexity of the negotiation. You could bargain at the docks for 1, perhaps, but not politics. We could leave it a judgment based on the roleplay? If you can RP using a language 1 ability to achieve your goal then you can avoid the penalty.
• We skip the idea of deciphering languages in which you are considered literate.

Stretching a little further...
If we're showing synergy between language and education, then it could work for the benefit of the Language, too. Advance levels of a language include familiarity with common idioms, literature, and cultural references.

• For each level of Language above 2, they could have +1B to Education checks for the culture.

If we do all that together, we can use Smoke Warrior learning Dothraki as an example.
Level 1: Ability to speak roughly. If he RPs convincingly when Persuading a Dothraki, he can lessen the -3D penalty for persuasion.
Level 2: Basic oral fluency. No penalty to persuasion.
Level 3: Impressive oral and basic written fluency. +1B to Persuade native Dothraki. +1B specialization for Education checks on Dothraki topics.
Level 4: +2B to Persuade native Dothraki. +2B specialization for Education checks on Dothraki topics.

Does that make sense? Would it be acceptable?

[Rusty Tincanne]

...since your character is an Adult; he can't have more than 3 Benefits, right? Your character has 4; did you want to drop one?

Missed that the second time around. I dropped Night Eyes, figuring the other three are more in character for Darryn. Thanks.

I haven't much else to say on the matter of languages, education, etc. Being a commoner that needed to focus on physical attributes to survive, I wanted my Darryn Drinkwater to be able to communicate orally, but not focus at all on the written word.

Thanks to Marullus for doing the cross referencing though!

@ Smoke, jdluna and Synth: It would be great to see some forward action from you three. Particularly since we are all basing our relationships around two of your characters. Any preferences regarding this stuff?

[max_vale]

Sorry fellas, I was hoping to get a bit more on these boards today, but it got a lot busier than I thought it was going too….I'm off to sleep here in a few.

-The language/education stuff: I'm cool with the proposed change….mostly I was just going off of what we had in the book and what other skills generally ranked as….so I'm cool with the amendment as written.

-Rusty: no problem on the character change

-As for synthalus, jdluna and smoke….I know Synth is a fan of how I statted up his character….I haven't heard from Smoke and jdluna has yet to respond to what kind of character he'd like to play. The game IS starting tomorrow…..and at least the two Valmont brothers will be in the party; as either PCs or NPCs.

Thanks for everyone's hard work and contributions; I will get the initial post up tomorrow for starting the game and we can work out the last of the details (i.e. Exactly what kind/how many land holdings and what's on them; troops, etc.) over the course of the weekend. Good job people!

Oh yeah….and Happy 4th to all of you who are American! (and even not, I guess….if you're married to someone who is or something like that. )

-Max

[smoke warrior]

My character is perfect thank you my name will be Asher and instead of a long sword I'd like a bastard sword and a hand or woodsman axe is fine and I wood like chain or leather armor and sorry about the delay but from here on out I will be on a lot more and I can't wait to rule the 7 kingdoms I mean fight for glory lol.

[max_vale]

Hey everybody…..today was CRAZY BUSY and I'm sorry to say I didn't get the first Game Thread posted today; but I DID put up a new thread with a Time-line of events important to House Valmont and this game. Rusty: I went with Darryn being 25 years old; if that's not cool….I can make edits.

Okay, I PROMISE the first game post will be coming tomorrow and a bit of a warning: you guys will be starting in two groups…..but don't worry, it won't last long.

Asher (smoke warrior), Keyth and jdluna's character (if he ever comes up with one) will be in one group; with Asher's Dothraki buddy Voqarro as well.

The other party will be Eduard, Gannis and Darryn.

The basic set up will be that Eduard, Gannis and Darryn's party is going to a small tournament at Stonehelm while Asher and Keyth have been contacted by 'Agents of King Aegon V' to try and get to Stonehelm in time for the tournament, complete with paid passage on a Westerosi ship sailing out of Myr (where the cousins re-united). The ship will mysteriously enough, have dropped them off on the coastline a couple of days away from Stonehelm, but near the road to the tournament.

Que the opening credits….

[smoke warrior]

Max_vale do I need to role up Voqarro or do you want to or is someone gonna play him.

[max_vale]

I can stat him up or you can if you want to; I don't think anyone is likely to play him as I haven't heard back from jdluna expressing an interest to do so.

I was thinking of putting most of his starting points in Fighting, Marskmanship, Survival, Agility, Athletics, Animal Handling, Endurance, Will and a single point in Language: Westerosi. I was thinking of starting weapons being an Arakh and a recurve (Double curve) Bow. Does this line up with your concept?

[smoke warrior]

Yeah that's the same idea I had. So that works